2007 has been a stinker for indie rock

[LouieB]

Kanye West - Graduation

Sorry...just NOT indie rock...

 

 

LouieB

[lost highway]

That's just the thing though......how can you debate the quality of a term that has no clear definition? I'd say indie has more elasticity as a term than punk ever did. The word everyone used in the 90's was alternative, alternative to what? And if indie is anything independent than your cousins unsigned zydeco band is the best thing to happen to indie.

[boywiththorninside]

That's just the thing though......how can you debate the quality of a term that has no clear definition? I'd say indie has more elasticity as a term than punk ever did. The word everyone used in the 90's was alternative, alternative to what? And if indie is anything independent than your cousins unsigned zydeco band is the best thing to happen to indie.

 

Whenever this is discussed I always think of that famous quote from Justice Stewart about the difficulty of defining what is pornography: "I know it when I see it." That's how I feel about "indie" music. I couldn't give you a clear definition of what it is, but I know it when I hear it. To me, it's a sound (and unfortunately also often a look) and the independent or major label distinction has no relevance. I understand this way of thinking can be insulting to a certain ethos, but it's the way I've come to approach the "indie" question.

[MattZ]

The ironic thing in all of this, of course, is that indie rock (whatever that means) was never supposed to be like straight-up traditional rock and roll. That's what made it indie, and that's why major labels didn't want it. When Wilco made YHF or Sonic Youth made Daydream Nation or Yo La Tengo made And I Can Hear the Heart Beating As One, they didn't want it to sound like the Rolling Stones. Indie can't be defined as a genre because it isn't a genre -- it's an aesthetic.

 

So, for me, what Frere-Jones did is write an article criticising an entire aesthetic of music (spanning many genres) for suceeding at what it set out to do. And maybe he does this because he mistakes an aesthetic for a genre, but that's even more bizarre to imagine. And as an aside, go tell Spoon that there's no space and/or Stones feel on Ga Ga Ga Ga.

 

At the end of the day, Frere-Jones sounds to me, like a music critic who'd prefer that rock music stayed relatively static, that every band today imitate or build upon Mick Jagger, and that basslines rumble so powerfully that the car seats would vibrate ( ). If that's the case, why is he the music critic for the New Yorker? And isn't that exactly what his predecessor at the New Yorker (Nick Hornby) was fired for?

[Calexico]

The UK music scene is certainly dead at the moment - too many skinny young men with guitars playing them all the same way.

 

I've argued this for the last couple of years - my favourite album of last year (M. Ward) came from the States and the vast majority of this years list will come from either the US or Canada. Something needs to happen in the UK to blast these losers out of their comfort zone, both the journalists and the artists, and do something, anything, different.

 

 

 

I completely agree. Where are bands as vibrant and essential as The Jam, The Smiths, Joy Division....nothing is happening in the UK except for shitty guitar rock that makes even Cast look like Pink Floyd.

 

 

Best album I have heard this year has been Boys And Girls In America. That was released here in January.

[boywiththorninside]

Frere-Jones sounds to me, like a music critic who'd prefer...that every band today imitate or build upon Mick Jagger

 

I'm sure I'd eventually get bored, but that doesn't sound half bad. In my perfect world, every band would have a hint of Jagger/Richards.

[Sid Hartha]

That's just the thing though......how can you debate the quality of a term that has no clear definition? I'd say indie has more elasticity as a term than punk ever did. The word everyone used in the 90's was alternative, alternative to what? And if indie is anything independent than your cousins unsigned zydeco band is the best thing to happen to indie.

To me, "indie" was never a genre - it was a business model. Indie = bands that got wise to the major labels, sign to independents instead and work on a smaller scale (enjoying better record deals and more artistic control).

 

It's like saying "diverse" is a genre.

[Welsh Rich]

It was telling that in the Observer Music Monthly magazine this sunday, which I only opened yesterday, out fell a catalogue for "indie clothing and accessories" from some company trying to flog you a lifestyle via a t-shirt or a belt buckle...

[m_thomp]

Indie rock has never meant anything to me. I don't know what it means. I don't like it. I don't use it. So in that sense I guess it's a bit like crack in my school playground. All I know is that it forms part of rubbish lyric in an equally rubbish song by the Killers (New Order on downers).

 

The same applies for the following words/phrases: "new wave", "post-rock" and "angular". Journalists? Get yourselves some new reference points.

[PopTodd]

As with every year, you just have to dig a little to find the really great music.

[ction]

All I know is my favorite band kinda sorta broke up in 2007, so yeah...bad year for music.

[PopTodd]

All I know is my favorite band kinda sorta broke up in 2007, so yeah...bad year for music.

 

So did mine, but that's neither here nor there. Still some good stuff this year, when I dig.

[lost highway]

The ironic thing in all of this, of course, is that indie rock (whatever that means) was never supposed to be like straight-up traditional rock and roll. That's what made it indie, and that's why major labels didn't want it. When Wilco made YHF or Sonic Youth made Daydream Nation or Yo La Tengo made And I Can Hear the Heart Beating As One, they didn't want it to sound like the Rolling Stones. Indie can't be defined as a genre because it isn't a genre -- it's an aesthetic.

 

So, for me, what Frere-Jones did is write an article criticising an entire aesthetic of music (spanning many genres) for suceeding at what it set out to do. And maybe he does this because he mistakes an aesthetic for a genre, but that's even more bizarre to imagine. And as an aside, go tell Spoon that there's no space and/or Stones feel on Ga Ga Ga Ga.

 

At the end of the day, Frere-Jones sounds to me, like a music critic who'd prefer that rock music stayed relatively static, that every band today imitate or build upon Mick Jagger, and that basslines rumble so powerfully that the car seats would vibrate ( ). If that's the case, why is he the music critic for the New Yorker? And isn't that exactly what his predecessor at the New Yorker (Nick Hornby) was fired for?

 

That is really well stated. If someone wants to whine about how amazing bands are underappreciated I'll pat them on the back, but when people have to complain about a lack of good music they need to leave the house. I've gotten at least a dozen mind blowing albums from the Denver Public Library in the last year. There's so much great stuff. If you're fixated on rumbling your car seat just get excited for the new Wu-Tang.

[JUDE]

All I know is my favorite band kinda sorta broke up in 2007, so yeah...bad year for music.

 

 

So did mine, but that's neither here nor there. Still some good stuff this year, when I dig.

 

I thought the Beatles split in 71'

[LouieB]

I love the New Yorker and it's writers to pieces but I cannot stand Sasha Frere Jones. I found this piece to be even more annoying than his usual output.

Pretty annoying for about 95% of it, but his point that many bands don't know how to "swing" isn't so far off. I used to make jokes about Sufjan Stevens having SDD - swing deficit disorder. The guy has no idea how to swing at all and many bands now don't. Back beat and other rhythmic devises are a thing of the past.

 

LouieB

[MattZ]

many bands don't know how to "swing" isn't so far off ... Back beat and other rhythmic devises are a thing of the past.

 

Exactly. No argument from me. And if Frere-Jones doesnt like the bands he lists or the albums he lists because they don't swing, then fine. I have no argument with that. But YHF wasn't meant to sound like Otis Redding. Why write an article saying it doesn't? Is that some sort of revelation?

 

If SFJ only has a taste for swing/space/bass, how did he become a music critic?

 

Ok, ok, ok. I need to move on with my life here. As much as I hated the article, and as much as I dislike Frere-Jones' writing in general, the guy got me thinking about music and passionate about what he wrote. Even if it was a negative reaction, I've got to give him credit for that. I suppose that's half of his job.

[lost highway]

The guy has no idea how to swing at all and many bands now don't. Back beat and other rhythmic devises are a thing of the past.

 

LouieB

 

 

Is that really true though? Sure, YHF is not concerned with butt shaking as much as other agendas, but in different ways I think Feist, Hot Snakes and Radiohead are three completely unique examples of effective rhythm sections that promote groove. Really I think Wilco does too, but it's in a different domain then what that guy was referencing. But really if rhythm power is what you want, all things are inferior to Afro-Cuban stuff, or James Brown, Fela Kuti.......there's a million variants.

[JerseyMike]

How is Sky Blue Sky not about the realities of the world?

 

I meant the world at-large. Not the little world that Jeff Tweedy lives in. If you can relate to that, thats fine, but for a guy that was railing against George W. Bush and The Republican Party at every show on the AGIB tour, I was hoping for something more. Something bolder, perhaps.

[Artifice]

The bands you mentioned were, for all intensive purposes

 

:shudder:

 

:involuntary spasm:

 

"intents and purposes"

 

[lost highway]

:shudder:

 

:involuntary spasm:

 

"intents and purposes"

 

 

English teacher, or English major?

 

 

I got scared for a minute and thought that I did it.

[MattZ]

Point, counterpoint:

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2176187/nav/tap3/

[Beltmann]

English teacher, or English major?

Hey now... I would like it noted that I am an English teacher and yet have never pointed out a spelling or grammar error on a message board.

[Spawn's dad]

You're old, thus obviously jaded and burnt out.

[giraffo]

I find it funny that that New Yorker article complains about lack of blues and rythym. popular rap music is absolute trash, and even 90% of the "sophisticated" underground rappers can't break any lyrical motifs of the typical bullshit. Calling Dr. Dre the most important artist since The Beatles defeats his credibility. The Beatles knew their shit and wrote purposely. Dr. Dre samples from all over the place and does nothing but write the same drivel over and over again. Also, Blues music has been done by musicians who don't know anything since the sixties. Not to say that a blues musician isn't talented or knowledgable, but if anything the easiest form of music for any beginner to learn and play is the blues...And because of that, very creative musicians ended up learning very little past blues stylings and relied on tricks and slight alterations. I think somone with an open mind would be willing to let musicians break out of the days of yore and be more interested in seeing people stretch bounds. I would think from this article the writer honestly just wants to hear more of the same. Being There was damn good, but all it really is is a country record with some good playing and Wilco innovation, nothing though that wasn't incredibly different from before.

 

edit: also, what about Beck? he's like a pretty big deal, and he does a TON of rythmically oriented stuff, even on The Information. I mean, Midnite Vultures may not be memorable, but if you can't dance to that, you just can't dance.

[Chendizzle]

I find it funny that that New Yorker article complains about lack of blues and rythym. popular rap music is absolute trash

 

Excuse me sir but have you heard Graduation by Kanye West?