Bob Dylan vs. Jeff Tweedy

[Mystik Spiral]

[Gobias Industries]

I think Reservations is a better love song than She Belongs To Me. So blow me.

 

That is the most reckless statement I have ever heard. Regardless, you picked one of the more average Dylan songs to pit against an above-average Tweedy song. To make it fair, how about Visions of Johanna vs. Reservations? No, it ain't a contest.

[Killer Whales]

but I'd say 60% of Bob Dylan's output is garbage...

 

for instance, he hasn't had a decent album in 12 years...yet every one that is released is considered an instant classic from the media...

 

I still think 60% is a gross overstatement, but then again, as per our previous conversation, you would put Ballad of a Thin Man in the 60%, so we clearly see things differently.

 

As for the conversation of modern songwriting being the way it is because of Dylan, I wouldn't say that's far off. Before Dylan, lyrics in songs were based more in hooks and sing-songy rhymes. Even the Beatles changed the way they approached lyrics because of Dylan (see: Rubber Soul onward). He put an emphasis on lyrics that wasn't there before, and almost forced songwriters to write more meaningful and poetic lyrics than the early rock n' roll singers were writing. It's hard to say whether that change would've happened anyway, but I can't imagine the bar being raised so high had it not been for Dylan. I mean, I often curse the guy for making my songs seem so terrible in comparison.

[So Long]

I'm not doubting the importance of Bob Dylan...but I'm just saying...

[HighFives]

I still think Neil Young is better all around than Bob Dylan.

[mountain bed]

This whole argument falls along the lines of sports fans who try to determine who would win if, say the 1962 Packers played the 1985 Bears. Different times, different circumstances.

 

In defense of Bob, he pioneered lyrical approaches, use of imagery that he created from his range of influences (not limited to just listening to Woody. He has been able to reinvent himself, to create a depth of character within his songs, the styles of music he has explored -- more nuanced than, say, David Bowie's incarnations, or Lou Reed for that matter.

 

We can't possibly conjure how music would have remade itself without Dylan. One thing's for certain, Tweedy, Farrar and countless others drank from the same musical well -- going back to the Anthology of American Folk Music, leaning on the same blues artists, the same issues, the same American history and myths that the music embodies.

 

Frankly, we can't say Tweedy would even be a musician because the desire and dreams were based on the landscape that was remade from the turns of Dylan, of the Stones, the Pistols and PiL, one building upon the other to create the myths that drive people like Tweedy, us, before and after. He may never have gotten out of southern Illinois. He may have followed in his father's footsteps and been the life of the party and his stage may have been nothing more than the living room.

 

But then, Tweedy, first with Farrar, moved alternative music forward, made it possible for others to follow in their steps, to realize that performing and recording is within anyone's grasp with the need and drive to make it happen. He took facets and genres of music and made them approachable. He has "reinvented himself" a number of times. There are definitely parallels between the two.

 

In another age, we'll be waging the same debate with whomever follows in Tweedy's footsteps, before beginning to leave his/her own footprints.

This is one very fine post, I just want to say.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

<blush> thanks.

 

This is one very fine post, I just want to say.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

I would say Tweedy has more in common with Young than with Dylan, songwriting-wise, performance-wise, and overall approach to music. The main difference is that Tweedy has had better follow through on his various explorations than Young. I think this is largely due to his attention to detail, and the surrounding talent he has sought out to make it happen.

 

Young, God love 'em, lives in the moment, explores what drives him, warts and all. He takes that "field recording" approach to every genre he's waded into -- even his "Sample and Hold" techno period.

 

I still think Neil Young is better all around than Bob Dylan.

[CortezTheKiller]

I still think Neil Young is better all around than Bob Dylan.

 

But Dylan is more talented/influential. Just ask Neil.

[Panther]

What, exactly, makes that the "fair" comparison?

 

there all from the same era

[Panther]

also, it cant be understated what Dylan created the beatles would have continued writing meaningless lyrics if it wasnt for Dylan or maybe the correct statement would be they did what they did because of Dylan, who knows what would have happened without Dylan.

 

I think its fair to say that Bob Dylan invented alternative rock, if you look at the times it makes sense. Before Dylan How much is that doggy in the window was pop music.

[HighFives]

 

But Dylan is more talented/influential. Just ask Neil.

 

I think he's only more inlfuential because he's a kook. He has a lot of interesting/weird stories about him so people are like "OMG BOBBY DYLZ IS SOO CRAZY" (Not saying it's bad or nuffin but it gets him way more exposure and makes him more well known) But Neil Young is more of a normal guy whose incredibly creative and talented. Neil's just music is so much more interesting than Dylan's. He sets the mood of songs so much better than Bobby imo. Plus I hate how Dylan has the word "said" in so many songs so many times. Ya know the "He said, she said, they said, etc."

[Analogman]

But Neil Young is more of a normal guy

 

Shakey: Neil Young's Biography

by Jimmy McDonough

[Atticus]

Shakey: Neil Young's Biography

by Jimmy McDonough

 

about 2/3s through that--thanks again for the recommendation. It's fascinating.

[Analogman]

I think if the fellow reads that, or anything about old Neil, he will see that he is not a normal dude.

[caliber66]

there all from the same era

I still don't understand how comparing Bob Dylan's 29th (or whatever) dreamstudio album with Wilco's fourth (etc.) is any kind of valid comparison. I'm not sure there is a fair comparison to be made.

[mountain bed]

I think if the fellow reads that, or anything about old Neil, he will see that he is not a normal dude.

So true. One of the best bios I've ever read.

[markosis]

favorite vs. best

 

Isn't that really the same thing? I'm going to settle this crap: Who do you like more? It doesn't matter why or how many platinum records they have or any of that bullshit. I happen to listen to The Sea And Cake way more than I listen to Bob Dylan. Therefore, I like The Sea And Cake more than I like Dylan. I guess that means I think The Sea And Cake is better than Bob Dylan. Who gives a fuck? Listen and enjoy, or don't listen and don't enjoy. That's where I draw the line.

[oceanman]

Townes Kills All...................you think of guys like these, Earle, Young, these dudes paid their debts, and lived the lives they spoke of.

 

Dlyan never road the rails

 

Cash never wen't to prison

 

Windows Vista is the new Mac

[elston gunn]

Isn't that really the same thing? I'm going to settle this crap: Who do you like more? It doesn't matter why or how many platinum records they have or any of that bullshit. I happen to listen to The Sea And Cake way more than I listen to Bob Dylan. Therefore, I like The Sea And Cake more than I like Dylan. I guess that means I think The Sea And Cake is better than Bob Dylan. Who gives a fuck? Listen and enjoy, or don't listen and don't enjoy. That's where I draw the line.

 

i love the drawings of my 4 year old son more than any Van Gogh painting, but that doesn't mean that my son is better than Van Gogh.

[markosis]

i love the drawings of my 4 year old son more than any Van Gogh painting, but that doesn't mean that my son is better than Van Gogh

 

Well, I'll pose you this question: Which do you like to view more? If you like looking at your son's drawings more than you like looking at Van Gogh's work, than what else really matters?

 

I've had conversations with people over this very topic. The amount of people a piece of art affects does not give it validation. It is the purity and quality of the art. For example, Joe Blow who lives down the street could write the best song you've ever heard. Just because you and Joe are the only people in the world who have heard the song, does it make the song less valid than, say, "Blowing In The Wind"? Absolutely not. I happen to think Robbie Robertson is the best rock and roll guitarist I've heard. Every guitar magazine poll would say otherwise, but that doesn't change how his guitar playing effects me. I could go on, but I think the point is made.

 

Art cannot be measured, other than how it affects the individual, because we are all such very different creatures. Arguing over whether Jeff Tweedy is better than Bob Dylan is about as futile as arguing Buddha vs. Jesus.

[CortezTheKiller]

Shakey: Neil Young's Biography

by Jimmy McDonough

Amen.

 

Neil is a normal guy. . . .

 

I'm a HUGE Neil Young fan. Nobody, for me, comes close. But Dylan is a fucking rock god. Nobody comes close. He brought rock music to a place nobody imagined. (I should throw a few more nobody's in there.) In Shakey, I believe Neil said his inspiration for stealing The Rockets and making them into Crazy Horse (Hawks/Band?) was a vision to combine Dylan with The Stones. Dylan is definitely a kooky dude, but you gotta give him his props.

 

Dlyan never road the rails

What rails did Neil ride?

[Guest Muncle Douchey]

Isn't that really the same thing? I'm going to settle this crap: Who do you like more? It doesn't matter why or how many platinum records they have or any of that bullshit. I happen to listen to The Sea And Cake way more than I listen to Bob Dylan. Therefore, I like The Sea And Cake more than I like Dylan. I guess that means I think The Sea And Cake is better than Bob Dylan. Who gives a fuck? Listen and enjoy, or don't listen and don't enjoy. That's where I draw the line.

 

this was actually my exact point.

 

to me best = favorite. it's the only way i can think about it.

 

therefore, to me tweedy is the best songwriter simply because he's my favorite.

[banjorick]

worst poll ever

[So Long]

I'm (rather surprisingly) not the only Tweedy voter...yet the others seem to be in hiding