MattZ Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 He didn't say he supported immunity, but he's backed off a LOT in his opposition of it. Last fall, he said he would support a filibuster of any bill that included telecom immunity. Now he's saying basically that he'll ask politely for it to be removed but will still vote for the bill if it isn't. As I said a few pages ago, this is a much more important issue (to me) than these other issues stealing the headlines... Link to post Share on other sites
Beltmann Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 As I said a few pages ago, this is a much more important issue (to me) than these other issues stealing the headlines...Same here. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Salon's Glen Greenwald has provided excellent commentary on the ongoing FISA developments. More democrat wisdom from his latest post: Just as Nancy Pelosi ran to Time to justify her support for the FISA bill, Steny Hoyer yesterday spouted his justifications to The Politico and said this: In an interview with Politico on Monday, Hoyer called the FISA legislation a "significant victory" for the Democratic Party -- one that neutralized an issue Republicans might have been able to use against Democrats in November while still, in his view, protecting the civil liberties of American citizens. In other words, Democrats achieved a "significant victory" because -- by giving Republicans everything they demanded -- Republicans are no longer able to criticize Democrats on this issue. What a shrewd strategy: "if we comply with all their demands, then they can't criticize us for anything." That's the Democratic Party's plan for winning, according to Hoyer. But that tactic isn't as innovative as Hoyer tries to suggest. That was exactly the mentality that led huge numbers of Democrats in 2002 to vote to authorize Bush's attack on Iraq: "Let's give the Republicans everything they want on national security and then they can't criticize us any more. That'll show them." Aside from being the very definition of cravenness -- "let's comply with all the GOP's orders and then they won't be mad and that will be good for us!" -- ask Max Cleland, who voted for the AUMF and then had commercials run against him with video of Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden, how well that strategy works. the link - http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/06/24/hoyer/ Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 My main problem with the immunity is not the immunity per-se. It is the fact that they have no clue as to what they are giving immunity for. For all we know the whole program has been targeting you and me or political opponents, or business opponents etc... Until they know what the immunity is for it should not be granted. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I don't see why it even matters. I can't think of a single thing that they could have been doing that they deserve immunity. If they did something illegal, they should be held to the same standard as anyone else and be subject to whatever criminal or civil punishments the system provides for. If they didn't do anything illegal, then they don't need immunity because there'd be nothing to immune them from. The whole point of this is to prevent an investigation into what the telecoms did, because it would likely implicate a whole lot of people in the White House and in both parties in Congress in much of the illegal behavior, or at least of being aware of it and not doing anything about it. It's totally CYA for Congress (as well as bowing down telecom execs who finance their campaigns). Link to post Share on other sites
Reni Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I don't see why it even matters. I can't think of a single thing that they could have been doing that they deserve immunity. If they did something illegal, they should be held to the same standard as anyone else and be subject to whatever criminal or civil punishments the system provides for. If they didn't do anything illegal, then they don't need immunity because there'd be nothing to immune them from. The whole point of this is to prevent an investigation into what the telecoms did, because it would likely implicate a whole lot of people in the White House and in both parties in Congress in much of the illegal behavior, or at least of being aware of it and not doing anything about it. It's totally CYA for Congress (as well as bowing down telecom execs who finance their campaigns). Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I don't see why it even matters. I can't think of a single thing that they could have been doing that they deserve immunity. If they did something illegal, they should be held to the same standard as anyone else and be subject to whatever criminal or civil punishments the system provides for. If they didn't do anything illegal, then they don't need immunity because there'd be nothing to immune them from. The whole point of this is to prevent an investigation into what the telecoms did, because it would likely implicate a whole lot of people in the White House and in both parties in Congress in much of the illegal behavior, or at least of being aware of it and not doing anything about it. It's totally CYA for Congress (as well as bowing down telecom execs who finance their campaigns). I'd also like to point out that the "liberal media" and the party's pocketed "527s" (eg, moveon.org) are doing an excellent job (if you search for it) of criticizing their own for what is happening and doing what they can to get grass roots support for getting immunity out of the bill. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/ One of the guys who helped start this site is a minister from TX who supported Bush previously and now supports Obama. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 http://www.jamesdobsondoesntspeakforme.com/ One of the guys who helped start this site is a minister from TX who supported Bush previously and now supports Obama. NEITHER dobson or obama speaks for me...how 'bout them apples? this minister from TX and his website can take a hike...as can obama and his ridiculous campaign machine. jeez, enough with the religion already. that goes for BOTH of you (dobson and obama). Link to post Share on other sites
sweetheart-mine Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 NEITHER dobson or obama speaks for me...how 'bout them apples?well i for one am shocked that you feel this way, uw. no, but i like your reliability, really and truly. you're starting to seem almost, well, avuncular! Link to post Share on other sites
explodo Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 jeez, enough with the religion already. that goes for BOTH of you (dobson and obama).Obama would probably use it a lot less if half of the country wasn't stupid enough to believe that he was a secret Muslim (which, I guess, roughly translates to terrorist) sent here to bring down capitalism from the inside out. Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Apparently Dodd & Feingold are planning a filibuster on immunity. Here is a handy FAQ from Russ Feingold's website about immunity. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh man do I love me some Chris Dodd. Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh man do I love me some Chris Dodd.Did you see when he was on O'Reilly discussing the Yearly Kos? Dodd ripped him a new one. Link to post Share on other sites
mountain bed Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Oh man do I love me some Chris Dodd.Right on, brother. When he spoke (at great length) last winter on this it was some riveting stuff. I was yelling and cheering at the TV like I was watching a ball game. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but the text sure makes it sound like a great speech that Dodd gave on the Senate floor today. http://dodd.senate.gov/index.php?q=node/4476 Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Obama would probably use it a lot less if half of the country wasn't stupid enough to believe that he was a secret Muslim (which, I guess, roughly translates to terrorist) sent here to bring down capitalism from the inside out.half the country huh? hmmm, must have missed that poll. funny how disagreeing with the obama on issues translates into believing in dumbass emails...among other things. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I hate to keep pounding Glen Greenwald Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 half the country huh? hmmm, must have missed that poll. funny how disagreeing with the obama on issues translates into believing in dumbass emails...among other things. Yep because that's all it is is just a few emails. Nothing on the news nothing on the tlak shows, just a few crack pots with email service. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Yep because that's all it is is just a few emails. Nothing on the news nothing on the tlak shows, just a few crack pots with email service.are you responding to explodo, or me...because i was responding to his quote:Obama would probably use it a lot less if half of the country wasn't stupid enough to believe that he was a secret Muslim (which, I guess, roughly translates to terrorist) sent here to bring down capitalism from the inside out. Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Interesting read:Dems Who Flipped On FISA Immunity See More Telecom Cash Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 are you responding to explodo, or me...because i was responding to his quote:Lets just say I was saying what I said, just a few crack pot emails nothing mainstream. It's not like it has entered the mainstream at all. I mean my friend who saw my wife and I fist bump after a good golf shot last week and said not to do that because it is what terrorists do, probably got that notion off of some whacked out email he recieved. Probably from the same email where he learned that Obama was raised Muslim in a madrassa in Indonesia, you know that one right? And it's not like it is main stream for any one to note Obama's middle name or the similarity of his last name to Osama? (Which by the way, the first time I heard this comparison was when Obama was running in the dem primaries for Senate). None of this is main stream and if it was it would not apply to you or anyone you know, just the fringe loonies with email. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Interesting read:Dems Who Flipped On FISA Immunity See More Telecom Cash Why am I not surprised? It Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Lets just say I was saying what I said, just a few crack pot emails nothing mainstream. It's not like it has entered the mainstream at all. I mean my friend who saw my wife and I fist bump after a good golf shot last week and said not to do that because it is what terrorists do, probably got that notion off of some whacked out email he recieved. Probably from the same email where he learned that Obama was raised Muslim in a madrassa in Indonesia, you know that one right? And it's not like it is main stream for any one to note Obama's middle name or the similarity of his last name to Osama? (Which by the way, the first time I heard this comparison was when Obama was running in the dem primaries for Senate). None of this is main stream and if it was it would not apply to you or anyone you know, just the fringe loonies with email.whenever i read one of your posts it sounds like a frantic missive from lewis black. he's a funny guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Why am I not surprised? It Link to post Share on other sites
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