fatheadfred Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 there is not enough wealth amonst the "rich" to pay for these programs. therefore the middle class will be picking up the slack. i see higher taxes and lower paychecks in my future, how about you? Dunno about that one. How's it go? The upper 10% own 90% of the wealth, the 90% have 10% of the wealth? I think this is late 20th century...it is even worse now. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 And at the time he gave a very passionate speech opposing the war. Sure, his perspective may have been different if he were in the Senate at the time, but it's not as though he jumped on to the anti-war bandwagon only after deciding to run for President. He was very vocal and prescient about the war since well before the invasion. Here is that speech... IMHO it's pretty darn good. Good afternoon. Let begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Maybe you should look into the Clinton's inner circle...The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power. This is some scary doo doo!In private they preach a gospel of Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 ah, what's the point, i'll always be in the political minority here. we can disagree on politics and still be friends can't we? there's no point in pushing this any further. good luck to you all. see you in november. This is a microcosm; the green party is a minority everywhere. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 That Obama speech was pretty damn good, and pretty damn close to my own stance on the war. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Indeed. It was intelligent and reasoned, and recent history has shown it to be right. Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 On a different topic in this thread The difference in 'religious' advisors or associates between McCain and Obama is that right now the people who McCain associates with (Hagee, Dobson, LaHaye etc...) have access to the White House, they have the president's ear and they expect to keep that close relationship going regardless of who the republican president is. McCain, or any R candidate fears not having the support of these people because of the reach they exert. These people themselves want the access and seemingly want input into official policy. We all want input, I'm sure everything would be perfect if we were each allowed to set the laws in our own manner since other people are not quite as well versed as each and every voter is. //sarcasm off// But thhe input some of these guys offer is disastrous in my opinion. to my way of thinking they are the leadership of the Christian Taliban, who want to enforce their version of a moral society on thhe rest of us, regardless of what we think a moral society should be (I'm thinking Dobson here). Others of them seem to want to speed the end and the second coming, which if they were Muslim we would call them jihadists, it's just that they don't blow themselves up in public, (Hagee, LaHaye) these are people who should have no input into policy because their desires are to force and end-time scenario, not to promote the country. I've long believed that the whole "faith based initiative' was conceived, developed and implemented as a reward to payback these supporters, but the payback is hurting the country because in addition to using the government to promote Christianity, they get access to places where, quite frankly crazy people should not have access to...the oval office. Clerics, if you will. Frightening. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I guess the real news today is - that Hillary, Bill, Obama, and Michelle all got together last night to watch Swingtown. Link to post Share on other sites
plasticeyeball Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 they are largely too lazy to edumacate themselves as to what a candidate stands for. this may be be the most racist thing i've ever read on this board Link to post Share on other sites
fatheadfred Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 That Obama speech was pretty damn good, and pretty damn close to my own stance on the war. Beautiful shit. I'll have to frame it and put that on the wall. Link to post Share on other sites
plasticeyeball Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I guess the real news today is - that Hillary, Bill, Obama, and Michelle all got together last night to watch Swingtown. this made me laffoutloud Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 It took the calculated move of a politician. No risk because only his opinion was on the line. And it's real easy to bleat about it 4 years after the war. Hey, I said it was the wrong move at the time too. Why ain't I the Democrats nominee?!? It was a huge risk, being that his political career depends on votes, and this wasn't a popular position to take. Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 this made me laffoutloud She did meet with him last night - it was unplanned - according to CNN. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 No reason for political discussion or research..it's all in the stars.The 2008 election has already been decided...by the man.Astro Future Trend Man. ~on Obama~http://astrofuturetrends.blogspot.com/search?q=obama ~On Wilco~He says that since JT is the main creative force and a virgo, the band has a Virgoan stamp.~http://astrofuturetrends.blogspot.com/search?q=wilco ~on McCain~http://astrofuturetrends.blogspot.com/2007...-president.html Maybe we need to seperate the fans @ shows according to their stars???? Dylan's on here, Neil Young,the Clinton clan, Arcade Fire,Bush, Iraq... your mama. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cousin Tupelo Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 I really don't understand how you can think it wasn't a risky move considering the "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists" political climate of the time. Because that wasn't what was voted on, and that's the basis of his whole criticism of his opponents. You voted for it, I wouldn't (even though he couldn't). It would have been a risky move to oppose the war and then run for Senate in Texas. There was no risk to saying "I'm anti war," and then crowing in the primaries that he was right four years later. I don't understand how you don't see the difference. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cousin Tupelo Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Indeed. It was intelligent and reasoned, and recent history has shown it to be right. Whoa, he really went out on a limb. What was his alternative? How specifically would have have dealt with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq? It's just talk. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 It would have been a risky move to oppose the war and then run for Senate in Texas. But not in Illinois? Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 What was his alternative? How specifically would have have dealt with Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq? It's just talk. His alternative to opposing the war? Well, he could have supported it. Or if you mean his alternative presented to going to war, well, the alternative was to not go to war. That was the whole point. There was no pressing need to go to war, no crisis that the war was an attempt to avert. It was completely unnecessary -- we didn't have to do anything at that time. That's the point. Also, he's laid out a million specificis about policy toward the middle east. Seriously, it's not a mystery. Look at his webpage. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cousin Tupelo Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 His alternative to opposing the war? Well, he could have supported it. Or if you mean his alternative presented to going to war, well, the alternative was to not go to war. That was the whole point. There was no pressing need to go to war, no crisis that the war was an attempt to avert. It was completely unnecessary -- we didn't have to do anything at that time. That's the point. Also, he's laid out a million specifics about policy toward the middle east. Seriously, it's not a mystery. Look at his webpage. I have. Lots of rough, broad outlines. No real world details. Seriously, honestly, I'm looking for reasons to support him, to be comfortable that he's the best hope for this country. I'm looking for help no empty justifications and warm and fuzzy feelings. You say your opinions are build upon more concrete details and information and I believe you. I guess, short of better resources, I'll keep looking. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 they are largely too lazy to edumacate themselves as to what a candidate stands for. - me this may be be the most racist thing i've ever read on this board do you see race in that quote? because i sure don't. Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 yes i'm sorry you can't get past it. unfortunately it's a common ailment among most democrats. i'll be praying for you. Link to post Share on other sites
plasticeyeball Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 blow me Link to post Share on other sites
uncle wilco Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 blow me you aren't my type. i'll still be praying for you. have a nice day. Link to post Share on other sites
Party @ the Moontower Posted June 6, 2008 Share Posted June 6, 2008 Uncle Wilco, I will be in Kansas City sat pm seeing a movie and eating din din.If I see your car I'm gonna slap an Obama 2008 sticker on it.Fancy it up a bit. I'm a sweetie like that. Link to post Share on other sites
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