New new election thread

[bobbob1313]

Shit man, I'd vote FOR Obama because he's friends with Bill Ayers. I wonder what those sunsabitches would think about that!

 

Really? You like that he might be connected to someone who advocated the violent overthrow of the government?

[mountain bed]

Really? You like that he might be connected to someone who advocated the violent overthrow of the government?

Well b2, being born 10 years too late I have somewhat of a romanticized notion of sixties counterculture. Probably due to me taking a hell of a lot of LSD when I was just a child. It really was mostly a facetious statement*.

 

* just in case I'm being "monitored".

[bobbob1313]

Still, the counter culture was nice and all, but it really wasn't a realistic way to either go about bringing change or live. We've seen examples of the style of life that was being espoused and it just doesn't work.

 

I'm guessing Utopia looks a lot nicer on LSD.

[mountain bed]

Exactly. Remember when Sir Paul said (in '67) "If we could just get all the heads of state together and take LSD we might be able to bring about world peace"? A noble, but ultimately naive and dumb thought.

 

This is way off-topic, but Martin Lee's book Acid Dreams is a wonderful expose' on that period of time. Really recommended reading if you're interested.

 

OK - back to the topic at hand - I'm in a self-induced frenzy over all of this VP speculation. I think I've been (literally and figuratively) "perma-spun".

[Atticus]

if you've been literally "perma-spun" I want to see pics

[Analogman]

Really? You like that he might be connected to someone who advocated the violent overthrow of the government?

 

You should do some research - plus the man is working within the system these days.

 

 

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge worked to increase the ability of schools to better themselves by investing in the "on the ground" improvement efforts of networks - schools connected with an external partner organization. Simultaneously, the Chicago Annenberg Challenge contributed groundbreaking research to the field of education concerning how to improve schools. By offering support through professional development and technical assistance, teaching and learning improved, the quality and quantity of professional development increased, and the community became more knowledgeable and better equipped to create successful school reform.

 

The Chicago Annenberg Challenge helped to build a successor organization, the Chicago Public Education Fund, which continues to invest in creative solutions for critical educational issues. With a focus upon principal and teacher leadership, the Fund has supported such programs as Teach for America, Golden Apple Teacher Education program (GATE), and New Leaders for New Schools.

[John Smith]

Really? You like that he might be connected to someone who advocated the violent overthrow of the government?

 

Interesting point. How far back do we reach for relationsships with people who want to illegally overthrow the government? Did you go back as far as the buisinessman's plot? Or is that too long ago? We all have our standards, some say they will never deal with terrorists and that there is no redeeming of terrorists, yet they turn around and praise sein fein and toss backa couple in their honor. It's all perspective.

[uncle wilco]

What a craptastic country we're living in.

 

hey, i can't help how i feel. doesn't mean i like it.

seriously, we're circling the drain here. obama?...mccain?...

WTF is going on? i've never cared less about an election.

i'm gonna stock up on torches and pitchforks

 

VIVA LE REVOLUTION!!!!!!

 

[LouieB]

You should do some research - plus the man is working within the system these days.

The Annenberg Challenge was a bunch of money Ayers and others put together to imporove CPS's cirriculum etc. I was actually involved with this, if not deeply. It involved money to help kids to do neighborhood history projects at our local school, in partnership with other schools and the Newberry Library. I met Bill a few times and he is a nice level headed guy (this was a few years back so he could have gone back off the deep end, but I don't think so...)

 

As usual the McCain campaign is going deep into the toilet to try and smear Obama any which way it can. Meanwhile McCain can't even remember how many homes he owns. Crazy.

 

LouieB

[uncle wilco]

Meanwhile McCain can't even remember how many homes he owns. Crazy.

They

[Analogman]

The Annenberg Challenge was a bunch of money Ayers and others put together to imporove CPS's cirriculum etc. I was actually involved with this, if not deeply. It involved money to help kids to do neighborhood history projects at our local school, in partnership with other schools and the Newberry Library. I met Bill a few times and he is a nice level headed guy (this was a few years back so he could have gone back off the deep end, but I don't think so...)

 

As usual the McCain campaign is going deep into the toilet to try and smear Obama any which way it can. Meanwhile McCain can't even remember how many homes he owns. Crazy.

 

LouieB

 

I think that is it - it is just more attempts to paint him as a terrorist in hiding. And while we are at it - Vietnam War American casualties @60,000. I am not exactly down with all that the Weathemen did - but, they did what they did.

[fatheadfred]

Seconded.

 

Cubed on Comedy Central.

 

Not this extremely stoopid reach:

 

http://www.suntimes.com/news/huntley/11207...-hunt22.article

 

Obama's got a lot in common with Bush

 

August 22, 2008Recommend (11)

 

STEVE HUNTLEY shuntley.cst@gmail.com

On the eve of the Democratic convention, consider a contrarian idea: How Barack Obama is like President Bush.

 

Won't back down. The Iraq War is central to the political fortunes of both. Bush's presidency will be judged by it. Obama's early opposition to it was crucial in his defeat of Hillary Clinton. At key times, Bush and Obama stubbornly followed policies that could have ended in defeat.

 

After the success of the invasion, it became clear that the Bush administration had no clear post-invasion strategy. Bush ignored advice that the U.S. had too few troops in Iraq and implemented destructive plans such as disbanding Iraq's army. Only last year did Bush finally yield to the urging of people like Gen. David Petraeus and Sen. John McCain to launch the military surge.

 

Despite the surge's obvious success, Obama clings to the position that his original opposition to it was correct. What's more, during the darkest days of Iraq, Obama formulated a troop pullout plan that would have had American soldiers retreat from the battlefield and acknowledge defeat. His plan still calls for firm timetables for withdrawals, but recently he has suggested he'd let facts on the ground influence the pullout.

 

Arrogance. Bush is damned by his critics as a cowboy who pursues unilateral foreign policies that alienate the rest of the world. Obama is labeled by his critics as an out-of-touch elitist. They point to his condescending remarks that small-town America bitterly clings to its guns and God. His speech to 200,000 Germans in Berlin was seen as his acting like he was president without benefit of an election.

 

Claims of bipartisanship. Bush promised to be a uniter, not a divider. He became one of the most polarizing politicians to hold the White House. Obama promises to put the bitter divisions of the past behind us and work across political lines. Yet, unlike Bill Clinton, the only successful Democratic presidential aspirant in the last quarter century and one who practiced centrist politics, Obama campaigns on a traditional liberal agenda. The record shows that, unlike McCain, Obama has never worked across the legislative aisle on an issue that could put him at any discomfort with his party.

 

Slow to respond. Nothing was so damaging to Bush's presidency as the federal government's belated response to the destruction Hurricane Katrina wreaked on New Orleans. Washington's bungling left everyone asking: If the government can't cope with a natural disaster, how could we be confident it could handle another terrorist attack?

 

Obama, not having held executive office, doesn't have a record of responding to crises. Yet, his performance on the campaign trail has raised questions about his being slow on the draw. During a Democratic presidential debate, Obama and Clinton were asked to respond to the scenario of a terrorist attack on two U.S. cities. Obama talked about an effective emergency response, good intelligence and better international relationships. He had to come back later with a better response after listening to Clinton give the right answer: retaliate. Recently, it took Obama three tries to catch up with McCain's accurate assessment of the Georgia-Russia crisis.

 

Inexperience. Bush came to the White House after just six years as governor of Texas. How big a factor that was in the failures of his presidency will be examined by historians for years. Obama spent eight years as a backbencher in the Illinois Legislature before his election to the U.S. Senate. By inauguration day, he will have served just under four years there. But as National Review Online noted, Obama had held his Washington post only two years and 12 days when he formed his presidential exploratory committee. He has spent the 18 months doing more campaigning than legislating.

 

Yes, many differences separate Obama and Bush, but as Americans pick their next president, they might want to consider the ways the Democrat seems similar to the one they've got now.

[mountain bed]

I think that is it - it is just more attempts to paint him as a terrorist in hiding. And while we are at it - Vietnam War American casualties @60,000. I am not exactly down with all that the Weathemen did - but, they did what they did.

Yep, and how much of what they did was fomented, in part, by undercover agents working for Nixon's White House? Quite a bit actually. The CIA definitely had a hand in turning antiwar groups into something a bit darker than your "peace and love" ethos.

[Party @ the Moontower]

Still, the counter culture was nice and all, but it really wasn't a realistic way to either go about bringing change or live. We've seen examples of the style of life that was being espoused and it just doesn't work.

 

I'm guessing Utopia looks a lot nicer on LSD.

 

 

Those dirty hippies changed society for the better and are still doing it. I live in a college town where some of them teach the young fine minds of today, hopefully showing them theres more to life than bling bling. They have a energy you don't see often anymore.One of my clients, a former hippie, owns a counseling center, and still lives his beliefs from the 60's and 70's, minus some of the drugs of course. I could go on and on. I'd say they brought about a whole hell of a lot of change even if some of them were on LSD.

 

Imagine life today had they not created a social revolution. I'm all for anyone who speaks up for my rights as a woman, gay rights, racial equality, legalizing pot (for health benefits of course), and the end of senseless wars.The hippie culture brought about change in music and art that is still present today. Without that change Dylan and the Beetles could have been a bit boring. Art would would only be fancy over priced crap consisting of dressed up white people who refuse to smile.

 

I agree LSD isn't on the menu today, but hippies have left a lasting mark on society that will always inspire positive change and much needed movements. Without such movements this country will pretty much suck and we will all be in jail for thinking too much.

[fatheadfred]

Interesting point. How far back do we reach for relationsships with people who want to illegally overthrow the government? Did you go back as far as the buisinessman's plot? Or is that too long ago? We all have our standards, some say they will never deal with terrorists and that there is no redeeming of terrorists, yet they turn around and praise sein fein and toss backa couple in their honor. It's all perspective.

 

There once was a rumor that Hilary was entrenched with a Socialist group in San Fran. btw, Socialists are evil. ha.

 

The Pete Seeger documentary shows how humanistic these 'evildoers' are. Like someone else said, yeah I would vote FOR him due to the association. Fight the power.

 

hey, i can't help how i feel. doesn't mean i like it.

seriously, we're circling the drain here. obama?...mccain?...

WTF is going on? i've never cared less about an election.

i'm gonna stock up on torches and pitchforks

 

VIVA LE REVOLUTION!!!!!!

 

 

Guns, too, cuz if a Dem is elected guns will be illegal, or so they say.

[John Smith]

They

[fatheadfred]

LSD was a good thing until the hangers on got a hold of it. There is a good documentary on Haight Ashbury that discuss ego development and LSD. Any drug taken without experience or notion of dosage is harmful. LSD can be positive, similar to ecstasy and mary jane and coca leaves (jury's out on powder and rock but I am thinking, not such a good thing).

[EL the Famous]

LSD was a good thing until the hangers on got a hold of it. There is a good documentary on Haight Ashbury that discuss ego development and LSD. Any drug taken without experience or notion of dosage is harmful. LSD can be positive, similar to ecstasy and mary jane and coca leaves (jury's out on powder and rock but I am thinking, not such a good thing).

 

[Guest Jules]

But McCain wannts to sound like a defender of the middle class, but as they say the dirt is in the details. Example McCains helath care plan, and this is an extention of a Bush wish list item, aims to curtail or eliminate the deduction for helath care insurance for employers (which is a tax increase by the way). If this occurs how many employers do you think will drop coverage for employees?

Hmm, I think I'm with you on this.

 

This is probably a topic for another thread, but how did we get to the point that employers are expected to provide health insurance anyway? I have found employees see it less as a true "benefit", but expect it. (I realize this has changed somewhat with some companies dropping it altogether due to cost.)

[bobbob1313]

So people really think McCain is the only one throwing shit, huh?

[MrRain422]

No, he's just throwing much dirtier shit.

[uncle wilco]

Do you knwo for a fact that McCains name is not on any of them? I don't.

 

Politico

 

And, you know what it really did not matter how many homes he owned until he began to rip on Obama for buying a pricey home in Hyde Park and tried to paint Obama as one of the wealthy elite out of touch with common americans. So McCain has to be exposed for being one of the truely wealthy elite that he is. And in reality who are either of them kidding? No serious contender for president is middle clas or poor. At worst they are upper middle class at the begining of their run and wealthy after they leave office.

 

i really don't give a damn about mccain. demonize away.

 

But McCain wannts to sound like a defender of the middle class, but as they say the dirt is in the details. Example McCains helath care plan, and this is an extention of a Bush wish list item, aims to curtail or eliminate the deduction for helath care insurance for employers (which is a tax increase by the way). If this occurs how many employers do you think will drop coverage for employees? The rhetoric on this is that the employers will increase employee salaries and employees will use MSA's for their coverage. The reality is that this will cause a major health care crisis as people will choose between food/gas/ hard goods/rent etc... and health care coverage. Bad Bad Bad policy for individuals.

 

Yeah...

 

Give some examples of how Obama has initiated stuff that puts him knee deep in the Sh*t? Retaliatory stuff like the hose issue really should not count since he is firing back at an issue raised by McCains group directly.

 

..uhhuh...

 

you know, i really don't care about any of this crap.

 

seriously, i'm sorry for wasting your time (and mine). someone else who gives a sh*t really should respond to your thoughtful post. because neither of these idiots are getting my vote.

[solace]

Chet Edwards? really?

 

:/

[fatheadfred]

Hmm, I think I'm with you on this.

 

This is probably a topic for another thread, but how did we get to the point that employers are expected to provide health insurance anyway? I have found employees see it less as a true "benefit", but expect it. (I realize this has changed somewhat with some companies dropping it altogether due to cost.)

 

It seems now that it is the only way to get coverage for 'risk' applicants, e.g. cancer in remission. Our 'company' cannot turn away an employee for health insurance vs. that same person walking in off the street. In this sense it is good that employers offer it. They also claim a lower cost due to buying power with a large group.

[Guest Jules]

It seems now that it is the only way to get coverage for 'risk' applicants, e.g. cancer in remission. Our 'company' cannot turn away an employee for health insurance vs. that same person walking in off the street. In this sense it is good that employers offer it. They also claim a lower cost due to buying power with a large group.

"Lower cost" that goes up 15% per year.

 

I see your point.