A Simple Survey

[NightOfJoy]

Doesn't that make you an agnostic?

 

Technically yes but I've been seriously questioning the existence of a supreme being over the last year or so.....and I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that there isnt one. So I guess I'm an agnostic on the cusp of being an atheist.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Seems to me that agnostic is atheist. If you don't know if there is a supreme being, you by definition don't believe in one, right? I feel that atheism has been distorted into affront to believers. You can simply not hold a belief yourself while not impugning another's belief. Although I understand that popularly this has been come to be the definition of agnostic, so I voted that way.

[LouieB]

Seems to me that agnostic is atheist.

This is not really accurate, although I suppose it is close. Atheists believe there is no god, whereas agnostics doubt there is a god.

 

LouieB

[Moe_Syzlak]

This is not really accurate, although I suppose it is close. Atheists believe there is no god, whereas agnostics doubt there is a god.

 

LouieB

Atheism is not necessarily the active disbelief in god (although I understand that it has popularly come to mean that and DOES mean that for many atheists). It is the absence of a belief in god(s), something I have been trying to convey in the Wilco and Atheism thread (with limited success). Atheism means "without god." Someone who is agnostic is "without god" by definition.

[sweetheart-mine]

This is not really accurate, although I suppose it is close. Atheists believe there is no god, whereas agnostics doubt there is a god.

 

LouieB

 

wait, agnostics doubt the existence of god but consider it a possibility . . . no?

 

 

 

Atheism is not necessarily the active disbelief in god (although I understand that it has popularly come to mean that and DOES mean that for many atheists). It is the absence of a belief in god(s), something I have been trying to convey in the Wilco and Atheism thread (with limited success). Atheism means "without god." Someone who is agnostic is "without god" by definition.

apparently i need to look up "atheist" again. every atheist i have ever known (or read) believes there is no god. period.

[Lammycat]

I am a practicing spiritualist. Whatever that means.

[mfwahl]

Technically, an atheist either hasn't considered the existence of a spiritual supreme being or actively denies the existence. An agnostic believes in the possibility but either admits to not knowing or believes that it is unknowable.

The terms are used pretty loosely and often interchangeably now. What the terms mean to me is: An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a spiritual power (however that may manifest itself in their daily lives). An agnostic believes in a spiritual power but isn't willing to make the leap of faith that most religions require.

I guess reading the results of this poll is hard if we can't agree on what the words mean.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in modern times, many people prefer agnostic either way because Atheism has almost become a religion in itself.

[PigSooie]

I believe in all of you.

[Lammycat]

I don't believe you. You're a liar.

[PigSooie]

I tell stories.

[sweetheart-mine]

Technically, an atheist either hasn't considered the existence of a spiritual supreme being or actively denies the existence. An agnostic believes in the possibility but either admits to not knowing or believes that it is unknowable.

The terms are used pretty loosely and often interchangeably now. What the terms mean to me is: An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a spiritual power (however that may manifest itself in their daily lives). An agnostic believes in a spiritual power but isn't willing to make the leap of faith that most religions require.

I guess reading the results of this poll is hard if we can't agree on what the words mean.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in modern times, many people prefer agnostic either way because Atheism has almost become a religion in itself.

 

hey, nicely put. those are the definitions i've always read/heard/gone by. there is a big difference between the two, imo.

 

p.s. edit: as an agnostic, i am no more an atheist than i am a practicing catholic, jew, muslim, jehovah's witness, et al.

[Moe_Syzlak]

Technically, an atheist either hasn't considered the existence of a spiritual supreme being or actively denies the existence. An agnostic believes in the possibility but either admits to not knowing or believes that it is unknowable.

The terms are used pretty loosely and often interchangeably now. What the terms mean to me is: An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a spiritual power (however that may manifest itself in their daily lives). An agnostic believes in a spiritual power but isn't willing to make the leap of faith that most religions require.

I guess reading the results of this poll is hard if we can't agree on what the words mean.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in modern times, many people prefer agnostic either way because Atheism has almost become a religion in itself.

Right, but again I think it is misleading the way the terms have become distorted. I label myself an agnostic because it helps to differentiate myself from those that actively seek to discredit faith in God. But that is not to say I have any real belief in a higher/spiritual power. If agnosticism is simply the admission that "I don't know" then everyone who has quoted Tweedy's "I don't know and you don't know" would be agnostic, including many who profess strong faith.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Atheism is not necessarily the active disbelief in god (although I understand that it has popularly come to mean that and DOES mean that for many atheists). It is the absence of a belief in god(s), something I have been trying to convey in the Wilco and Atheism thread (with limited success). Atheism means "without god." Someone who is agnostic is "without god" by definition.

Frankly your efforts in the Wilco and Atheism thread have limited success because you have been "without reception" of what anyone else is saying.

 

You bristle over what others believe, bristle over what you believe you believe others believe about atheism.

 

If atheism = "without god" that is your belief, or a core value within your beliefs. To be without something, you have to acknowledge that from which it is set apart from. To make your point, that is probably not the best choice of definition then, because you imply that you got to who you are in absence of god vs. no god. You got where you got because of how you got there.

 

In the words of John Lennon, "whatever gets you through the night."

[Central Scrutinizer]

Technically, an atheist either hasn't considered the existence of a spiritual supreme being or actively denies the existence. An agnostic believes in the possibility but either admits to not knowing or believes that it is unknowable.

The terms are used pretty loosely and often interchangeably now. What the terms mean to me is: An atheist doesn't believe in the existence of a spiritual power (however that may manifest itself in their daily lives). An agnostic believes in a spiritual power but isn't willing to make the leap of faith that most religions require.

I guess reading the results of this poll is hard if we can't agree on what the words mean.

 

EDIT: Oh, and in modern times, many people prefer agnostic either way because Atheism has almost become a religion in itself.

I think you nailed it. But what I think you mean, is completely different than what you meant.

 

I don't believe you. You're a liar.

Judas!

[Lammycat]

Judas!

[mfwahl]

Right, but again I think it is misleading the way the terms have become distorted. I label myself an agnostic because it helps to differentiate myself from those that actively seek to discredit faith in God. But that is not to say I have any real belief in a higher/spiritual power. If agnosticism is simply the admission that "I don't know" then everyone who has quoted Tweedy's "I don't know and you don't know" would be agnostic, including many who profess strong faith.

I agree. My problem is that when it comes to spirituality, I have enough trouble figuring out what I believe and feel from day to day, that to find a term to express it seems ridiculous.

One of these things that I've always respected about people committed to their faith is that even though they're tested day to day, they still have their faith.

[Lammycat]

A "simple" survey.

[mfwahl]

A "simple" survey.

[Central Scrutinizer]

Do you believe in god? Check this box ...

[Good Old Neon]

An agnostic believes in a spiritual power but isn't willing to make the leap of faith that most religions require.

 

I think you

[jimmyjimmy]

One of these things that I've always respected about people committed to their faith is that even though they're tested day to day, they still have their faith.

Beautifully said.

 

I think you

[Central Scrutinizer]

EDIT: Oh, and in modern times, many people prefer agnostic either way because Atheism has almost become a religion in itself.

 

I do not regard atheism as a faith. Atheism does not accept the existence of a supernatural god, but this is not an act of faith. It is simply applying the normal tests of proof to the claims of others.

I think he was speaking metaphorically -- he can correct me if I am wrong. That there are some who "evangelize" (that was a metaphor") about atheism, who actively profess their atheism and "proselytize" (another metaphor) to non-non-believers.

 

Then there was that atheist handing out tracts at the airport (That was a joke).

 

"Not that I condone any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."

[mfwahl]

I think he was speaking metaphorically -- he can correct me if I am wrong. That there are some who "evangelize" (that was a metaphor") about atheism, who actively profess their atheism and "proselytize" (another metaphor) to non-non-believers.

 

Then there was that atheist handing out tracts at the airport (That was a joke).

 

"Not that I condone any -ism for that matter. -Ism's in my opinion are not good. A person should not believe in an -ism, he should believe in himself. I quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in The Beatles, I just believe in me." Good point there. After all, he was the walrus. I could be the walrus. I'd still have to bum rides off people."

Thanks. Yeah, I was just saying that a lot people are turned off by Atheism (I'm using a big A here to emphasize the -ism) because there are fanatics who are very committed to it and throw it in peoples faces when that is exactly what a lot of atheists are turned off by. Also, as with a lot of things, as time goes on a tradition is developed and a lot of people who are atheists don't want to be part of that tradition or history.

 

And again, these are just terms. If I use a term that you identify with, I'm not pretending to know what you think, I'm using it as some sort of reference point.

[EL the Famous]

god gave rock'n'roll to you...gave rock'n'roll to you...gave rock'n'roll to everyone.

[bobbob1313]

There are definitely those who evangalize atheism right here on this board.