Election thread

[sweetheart-mine]

I like it crow. It's difficult to have a discussion on the merits of opposing policy when from the outset the preferred tone is one of is mudslinging and the idiotic dueling of pundits. I can't bear to watch mainstream media anymore -- there's a lot of information out there, but little of it rises to the surface when the media highlights sensationalism and panders to the lowest common denominator. Ultimately, and hopefully with input other than mainstream media, we all must come to our own conclusions.

 

Personally, I find it hard to fathom than anyone not securely seated among the wealthy could find a reason to support policies that demean and damage the lower and middle class for the benefit of the richest of us. I can't find any justification for a government that reduces or eliminates services to those of us most in need, while lining the pockets of the powerful. There are many people who have chosen the path of public service because they believe it's the right thing to do -- not for power, not for monetary reward, but because they believe government has a legitimate role to play in improving the lives of its citizens across the board, not reinforcing the aristocracy.

very well said. and i agree with many of crow's points as well -- thank you for not deleting your post.

[Party @ the Moontower]

Do you have a decoder ring for your posts that I didn't get?

 

a cryptovariable?

 

I can send you one...

 

He knows I was talking about his a-holeness posts, the only one who just talks on this thread to be a jerk while others post links, actually discuss like adults, give points to think about and research, actually read..

 

His VC history proves his game, there is no bigger jerk on VC, or at least that I have seen. Starts with an S and ends with an s.

[John Smith]

I do think he's wrong. He's not at all stunned that Rove is an analyst for Fox.

 

Whatever, Rove woudl definately spin it negative I have no doubts. The other day ROve was ripping on Obama's experience or lack there of and howadding Biden to the ticket only goes to show how inexperienced Obama actually is. Roves counterpoint actually asked him about 2000 and how Bush's lack of experience was an issue, but Rove & co spun the selection of dirty dick and his experience as a counterbalance to Bush's inexperience and how that was a good thing, and mentioned that it might be the same situation. Rove's comment was that in Bush's case it was completely different and there is no comparison to be made. So yes I believe that Rove will spin everything always.

[Party @ the Moontower]

I like it crow. It's difficult to have a discussion on the merits of opposing policy when from the outset the preferred tone is one of is mudslinging and the idiotic dueling of pundits. I can't bear to watch mainstream media anymore -- there's a lot of information out there, but little of it rises to the surface when the media highlights sensationalism and panders to the lowest common denominator. Ultimately, and hopefully with input other than mainstream media, we all must come to our own conclusions.

 

Personally, I find it hard to fathom than anyone not securely seated among the wealthy could find a reason to support policies that demean and damage the lower and middle class for the benefit of the richest of us. I can't find any justification for a government that reduces or eliminates services to those of us most in need, while lining the pockets of the powerful. There are many people who have chosen the path of public service because they believe it's the right thing to do -- not for power, not for monetary reward, but because they believe government has a legitimate role to play in improving the lives of its citizens across the board, not reinforcing the aristocracy.

 

Viatroy your words are something I always enjoy reading.

[sweetheart-mine]

Why is Obama doing his speech in a football stadium?

because that one's a mile high. he's not a short guy. think about it.

[Party @ the Moontower]

because that one's a mile high. he's not a short guy. think about it.

 

 

6'2

[solace]

p.s. if any Hillary supporter ever whines to me about Barack's supposed "lack of experience", i'll be sure to point out to them that he has 3 years more ELECTED political office experience than her, and that 4 years as First Lady isn't exactly the most lauded experience (otherwise, Laura Bush would be nearly qualified to be President)

 

[mfwahl]

Putting aside of course, the fact that the Nazi party was a leftist movement.

Nazism is generally considered a form of fascism, so no it wasn't a leftist movement.

 

I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos

[Central Scrutinizer]

p.s. if any Hillary supporter ever whines to me about Barack's supposed "lack of experience", i'll be sure to point out to them that he has 3 years more ELECTED political office experience than her, and that 4 years as First Lady isn't exactly the most lauded experience (otherwise, Laura Bush would be nearly qualified to be President)

 

Not to split airs but 8 years as first lady -- including efforts on national health care that, within the party, is valuable experience for the next four years.

 

Comparing state office to the U.S. senate is like comparing AA ball to the MLB.

 

I read the blog on Obama's site too. One can debate his term of experience in the Senate because he admittedly laid low the first half of his term, getting the lay of the land.

 

Despite the barbs tossed, I hope Barack is everything his supporters hope for. I hope his vision is tempered with a pragmatic approach to Washington, and that he can make a difference. It's all up to him.

 

6'2

Is it just me, or does this image make him look like the Pink Panther?

[Synthesizer Patel]

That's a very good observation.

 

I did like this line from Clinton:

 

(EDIT: preceding line) "Most important, Barack Obama knows that America cannot be strong abroad unless we are strong at home.

 

"People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power."

 

they didn't show that bit - they just showed a few clips. i guess that gives you some idea of what our media wishes to portray though, doesn't it. which is wrong, but still these things do help form opinions unfortunately.

 

to me, our media seemed to be taking the piss out of it all, showing the people who'd come from miles around in silly hats and stuff like that - showing the whole thing as a show rather than having any real political merit.

[ikol]

I think George Stephanaluffugus is a tool.

 

I love Jon Stewart. He is not a tool. Rove is an entire box of tools.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

Whatever, Rove woudl definately spin it negative I have no doubts. The other day ROve was ripping on Obama's experience or lack there of and howadding Biden to the ticket only goes to show how inexperienced Obama actually is. Roves counterpoint actually asked him about 2000 and how Bush's lack of experience was an issue, but Rove & co spun the selection of dirty dick and his experience as a counterbalance to Bush's inexperience and how that was a good thing, and mentioned that it might be the same situation. Rove's comment was that in Bush's case it was completely different and there is no comparison to be made. So yes I believe that Rove will spin everything always.

 

I didn't say anything about that, just that Stewart was disingenuous when he said he was stunned about Rove getting a job on Fox. I don't really give a damn about Rove or his counterparts on the left. They're all partisan hacks whose job is to get and keep their guy/gal elected, which means they probably make pretty good political analysts.

[Central Scrutinizer]

they didn't show that bit - they just showed a few clips. i guess that gives you some idea of what our media wishes to portray though, doesn't it. which is wrong, but still these things do help form opinions unfortunately.

 

to me, our media seemed to be taking the piss out of it all, showing the people who'd come from miles around in silly hats and stuff like that - showing the whole thing as a show rather than having any real political merit.

Hey, I watch BBC America. Other than your tabloids, you're getting a better version of the world than we can get in the states with, arguably three networks and at least four cable news channels at our constant disposal.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I didn't say anything about that, just that Stewart was disingenuous when he said he was stunned about Rove getting a job on Fox. I don't really give a damn about Rove or his counterparts on the left. They're all partisan hacks whose job is to get and keep their guy/gal elected, which means they probably make pretty good political analysts.

He could be the Tim McCarver (or Joe Morgan) of political analysts!

[Party @ the Moontower]

Speaking about experience, Bush has 8 years experience he can't pretty up his resume with..and then there's that old "missing year" thing he can't add either. Here's to McCain being more of the same .It's only 4-8 years anyway, how much damage can you do in such a short time?

[ikol]

It's only 4-8 years anyway, how much damage can you do in such a short time?

 

Not much, apparently.

[Tweedling]

Kyle, I was asking because with all the hard work that Michelle and Joe did to show us that the guy who grew up "across the continent in Hawaii", raised by his Grandmother and Ivy League educated is just like us seems to be in conflict with the rockstar show.

I don't like ancient greece nazi pillars.......democrat or republican.

 

Just sayin.

[John Smith]

I didn't say anything about that, just that Stewart was disingenuous when he said he was stunned about Rove getting a job on Fox. I don't really give a damn about Rove or his counterparts on the left. They're all partisan hacks whose job is to get and keep their guy/gal elected, which means they probably make pretty good political analysts.

 

Stewart was not disingenuous he was expressing sarcasim. But the main difference is that most of the reputable networks hire these people as analysts and they analyse. They may slant it one way or the other, but they analyze and give insight. Rove is working for Fox in full on campaign mode, he always will be. His analysis is always bent on tearing down one side and buidling up the other. It's the only way he knows how to to do it.

 

As to your latest "don't lump me or conservatives in with Bush" sentiment, it has to be that way because that is the way it is being sold. It is the way the republican party has sold it for the past eight years. Bush = conservative. I know as well as you do that conservatism today in no way shape or form resembles conservatism of twenty years ago. And that did not mirror the conservatism of the early 1960's. Whether we like it or not it changes. And the change has been driven by the guys whose main goal is to win elections and the gusy winning those elections. Like it or not the likes of Kristol, Rove, Bush Cheney, Fox News etc... have changed the menaing of conservatism. Will it be forever? Who knows, only time will tell.

[ShuckOwens]

I can send you one...

 

He knows I was talking about his a-holeness posts, the only one who just talks on this thread to be a jerk while others post links, actually discuss like adults, give points to think about and research, actually read..

 

His VC history proves his game, there is no bigger jerk on VC, or at least that I have seen. Starts with an S and ends with an s.

I'm sure you're a great person, and that we could share a beer or three before a show just fine. My terse posts on the political threads here just stem from my irritation at some of the talking points that I feel go unchallenged... usually *not discussed like adults. I'm obviously a right-leaning fan of Wilco with a different take on things, and clearly a minority among the fans who post online. I'm not actually a jerk... just regrettably allowed myself get a little too sarcastic.

 

I disagree with Obama's stance on about 87% of the issues, but I do find him to be an inspirational guy. I feel a great sense of pride in the historic nature of his nomination. I just wish that he was someone that I could pull the lever for. I do think it's a huge positive when a minority has a real shot at the Presidency. If we're judging candidates by ethnicity, I might have preferred it be Michael Steele or JC Watts, but there still is pride as an American in his success... gotta admit it.

[ikol]

As to your latest "don't lump me or conservatives in with Bush" sentiment, it has to be that way because that is the way it is being sold. It is the way the republican party has sold it for the past eight years. Bush = conservative. I know as well as you do that conservatism today in no way shape or form resembles conservatism of twenty years ago. And that did not mirror the conservatism of the early 1960's. Whether we like it or not it changes. And the change has been driven by the guys whose main goal is to win elections and the gusy winning those elections. Like it or not the likes of Kristol, Rove, Bush Cheney, Fox News etc... have changed the menaing of conservatism. Will it be forever? Who knows, only time will tell.

 

But that sentiment is also being sold by liberals to get true conservatives to vote for Dems. I'm not buying what either side is selling, and I'll pretty much be disappointed no matter which guy wins in November.

[Central Scrutinizer]

I'm sure you're a great person, and that we could share a beer or three before a show just fine. My terse posts on the political threads here just stem from my irritation at some of the talking points that I feel go unchallenged... usually *not discussed like adults. I'm obviously a right-leaning fan of Wilco with a different take on things, and clearly a minority among the fans who post online. I'm not actually a jerk... just regrettably allowed myself get a little too sarcastic.

 

I disagree with Obama's stance on about 87% of the issues, but I do find him to be an inspirational guy. I feel a great sense of pride in the historic nature of his nomination. I just wish that he was someone that I could pull the lever for. I do think it's a huge positive when a minority has a real shot at the Presidency. If we're judging candidates by ethnicity, I might have preferred it be Michael Steele or JC Watts, but there still is pride as an American in his success... gotta admit it.

Great post. I lean the other direction, but I feel some of what you're saying.

 

I think it's fair enough to say all the way around (self included) that the way to point out someone's lack of reasoning is not to be even more unreasonable.

[mfwahl]

There is a blog on Indecision2008.com that responds to the coverage of Jon's Monday luncheon. They clarify a lot of things that he said, didn't say. It's a funny read and should be read before anyone jumps to conclusions about what he was saying. Most of what's out there is coming from people he was criticizing so not all of it is fair or accurate.

[JUDE]

His VC history proves his game, there is no bigger jerk on VC, or at least that I have seen. Starts with an S and ends with an s.

 

This I find absolutely hilarious.

 

I state without exaggeration and from personal experience that the mere mention of your username will garner a "knock it off" PM from a Mod, and yet you can call someone a$$hole and make other personal attacks on people with whom you have a differing opinion politically.

 

Wow.

[gogo]

to me, our media seemed to be taking the piss out of it all, showing the people who'd come from miles around in silly hats and stuff like that - showing the whole thing as a show rather than having any real political merit.

I was trying to explain to my nephew last night that these used to be real working conventions, delegates getting together to seriously hash out the party's platform and nominate the candidates. He couldn't fathom it as anything beyond a televised extravaganza.

[Party @ the Moontower]

I'm sure you're a great person, and that we could share a beer or three before a show just fine. My terse posts on the political threads here just stem from my irritation at some of the talking points that I feel go unchallenged... usually *not discussed like adults. I'm obviously a right-leaning fan of Wilco with a different take on things, and clearly a minority among the fans who post online. I'm not actually a jerk... just regrettably allowed myself get a little too sarcastic.

 

I disagree with Obama's stance on about 87% of the issues, but I do find him to be an inspirational guy. I feel a great sense of pride in the historic nature of his nomination. I just wish that he was someone that I could pull the lever for. I do think it's a huge positive when a minority has a real shot at the Presidency. If we're judging candidates by ethnicity, I might have preferred it be Michael Steele or JC Watts, but there still is pride as an American in his success... gotta admit it.

 

The talking posts have not gone unchallenged, we've discussed this stuff till we puked this summer, and usually like adults.You just happened to pop your head in 2 days ago and assume we just make up shit without any research or discussion. And you called me a man, and a teenager. I read your VC history and it seems what you think is sarcasm is far from it.

 

You ignore links posted for you & just skim what is posted looking for a punch.

[gogo]

I state without exaggeration and from personal experience that the mere mention of your username will garner a "knock it off" PM from a Mod

This is ludicrous. There are certain circumstances that led to those PMs, and don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. I'm so sick of that routine.

 

If anyone has a problem with a specific post, please report it. I don't agree that one person being an asshole gives anyone else the right to respond in kind, but I'm not going to dive in and try to fix every instance of assholery that I see on here. I don't have that kind of time.

 

If people could just grow up, try to treat each other with respect, these threads don't have to be shitfights.