8th election thread

[kwall]

there's a good chance, though, that the situation will change drastically between now and november 4. obama may get tougher in order to respond to dirty politics, and mccain and palin may sink like stones once the sparkles fall off. anything can happen.

i'm still waiting for obama to bring up the "i hate the gooks" quote from mccain. i guess he's waiting until october.

[sweetheart-mine]

if their "noticing" consists merely of noting that an ad has only white children in it, yes. but it has nothing to do with their party affiliation.

so it's ok to take note only of large, long pieces of evidence, not the small ones that sometimes add up to the larger.

 

and you don't consider party affiliation. interesting.

[EL the Famous]

question for kwall and/or bleedorange...do you think the claims of sexism on the part of the obama camp are accurate? what about the media?

 

not an attack, just curious.

[sweetheart-mine]

i'm still waiting for obama to bring up the "i hate the gooks" quote from mccain. i guess he's waiting until october.

obama has passed up enough dirty-politics opportunities to fill up lake michigan.

[Guest Jules]

question for kwall and/or bleedorange...do you think the claims of sexism on the part of the obama camp are accurate? what about the media?

 

not an attack, just curious.

you didn't ask me, but no.

 

obama has passed up enough dirty-politics opportunities to fill up lake michigan.

I don't know. That's a pretty big lake.

[EL the Famous]

you didn't ask me, but no.

 

sorry.

[kwall]

so it's ok to take note only of large, long pieces of evidence, not the small ones that sometimes add up to the larger.

i don't consider this even a small one. are you seriously suggesting that all political ads must now contain a member of every race in order to avoid being racist?

 

and you don't consider party affiliation. interesting.

not when deciding if a particular ad is racist, no. i'm glad you find it interesting. i'm quickly losing interest myself.

 

 

obama has passed up enough dirty-politics opportunities to fill up lake michigan.

so when it does come up, i can remind you that it is dirty politics and you will agree?

 

question for kwall and/or bleedorange...do you think the claims of sexism on the part of the obama camp are accurate? what about the media?

 

not an attack, just curious.

not really.

[Party @ the Moontower]

Do any women here feel insulted by McCain's pick for VP? I'm not a woman, but if I were I think I would feel insulted in a way.

 

As a small town white mother..yes. She was a real bitch @ the RNC. There is not a better way to describe it than that, lies, hatefulness, evil facial expressions, sarcastic lies..and not to mention parading her kids around. Since when is being a Maverick productive in Washington? If McCain is elected they will divide Washington and waste a lot of time being mavericks.

[Guest Jules]

As a small town white mother..yes. She was a real bitch @ the RNC. There is not a better way to describe it than that, lies, hatefulness, evil facial expressions, sarcastic lies..and not to mention parading her kids around. Since when is being a Maverick productive in Washington? If McCain is elected they will divide Washington and waste a lot of time being mavericks.

You seem really occupied with Palin.

[John Smith]

I actually wasn't outraged over anything. I just don't think there is anything to be gained by inserting race into an issue that has nothing to do with race.

 

And why use this "southern strategy" of "what is scarrier to white people than an uppity black man talking sex with their children?" in non-Southern states?

 

From the SUntimes:

 

In the new McCain spot, an announcer says "Obama's one accomplishment? Legislation to teach "comprehensive sex education" to kindergartners. Learning about sex before learning to read?

Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."

 

The facts: 1. The bill was not Obama's. The sponsors were Democrats Carol Ronen, M. Maggie Crotty, Susan Garrett , Iris Y. Martinez and Jeffrey M. Schoenberg 2. The measure never passed. 3. The legislation in several places said all sex ed had to be "age and developmentally appropriate." Obama backed teaching youngsters about inappropriate touching by strangers. 4. The bill would let parents opt out of a sex education course.

 

 

 

BTW the southern strategy is termed now to include all racially charged campaign issues regardless of where they use them Not just the south. But I should have known that republican/republican supporters will use a litteral menaings of the words test here.

[Guest Jules]

From the SUntimes:

The facts: 1. The bill was not Obama's. The sponsors were Democrats Carol Ronen, M. Maggie Crotty, Susan Garrett , Iris Y. Martinez and Jeffrey M. Schoenberg 2. The measure never passed. 3. The legislation in several places said all sex ed had to be "age and developmentally appropriate." Obama backed teaching youngsters about inappropriate touching by strangers. 4. The bill would let parents opt out of a sex education course.

He did vote for it, though, right?

[Party @ the Moontower]

It is still 50 some days until the election, but I feel like I already need to get used to the McCain presidency and hope for a Hillary Clinton run in 2012. I know it ain't over yet, but somehow I have this sinking feeling that the Obama campaign has been bested (and swift boated) once again by the GOP and that we have to live through this some bad dream, with Sarah Palin being this close to becoming the first female president.

 

LouieB

 

I'm starting to feel the same way, and getting really pissed @ Obama for being such a damn pussy.

[bleedorange]

question for kwall and/or bleedorange...do you think the claims of sexism on the part of the obama camp are accurate? what about the media?

 

not an attack, just curious.

 

 

Not entirely accurate, but definitely effective. I say not entirely mainly because there have been a few comments addressing concerns over having five kids and having time to be a VP.

 

The one thing I have not been able to understand (and I posted about it a few days ago to no real response other than the beginnings of another abortion debate) is the assertion that Palin is not a feminist. Personally, I think the fact that she has been able to go from mom to city council to mayor to governor pretty much personifies what feminism is supposed to be about.

 

But somehow, a woman who chooses to be pro-life cannot be a feminist. It doesn't make sense. Then again, I focus on the aspects of equal opportunity, equal pay, etc., when I think of feminism.

[Guest Jules]

I'm starting to feel the same way, and getting really pissed @ Obama for being such a damn pussy.

Why be mad at Obama? Maybe this is all he has?

[Edie]

I think that if anything, the last couple of weeks are a great wakeup call to the Obama campaign and its supporters that this will not be a cake walk. If you believe in his campaign, give your money and your time now. I do think that he is smart enough to figure this out -- and that he will win in November.

 

Palin is going home to learn about foreign policy and the economy and everything else before her debate. McCain will be on the road for a while by himself -- so it will be interesting to see if the crowds and the media keep her in the headlines.

[Party @ the Moontower]

You seem really occupied with Palin.

 

 

I'm answering a question, is that ok with you? And yes, I give a shit and follow the others side closely. Is that a problem Jules? Palin could very well become our president, so yeah, I follow her closely. Would I be a better person, or a smarter voter if I only listened to Obama & Biden? This is an election thread, Palin is running for VP....

[bjorn_skurj]

Why be mad at Obama? Maybe this is all he has?

Maybe. He kinda looked fragile sometimes when he was debating Hillary, and a little shocked that she was not charmed by him.

[sweetheart-mine]

i don't consider this even a small one. are you seriously suggesting that all political ads must now contain a member of every race in order to avoid being racist?

why yes, you read my mind. martians, koala bears, and all dead presidents must also be included. are you serious when you make up out of thin air things that other people supposedly suggested? why do you hate america?

[Guest Jules]

I'm answering a question, is that ok with you? And yes, I give a shit and follow the others side closely. Is that a problem Jules? Palin could very well become our president, so yeah, I follow her closely. Would I be a better person, or a smarter voter if I only listened to Obama & Biden? This is an election thread, Palin is running for VP....

It was just an observation.

[bleedorange]

From the SUntimes:

 

In the new McCain spot, an announcer says "Obama's one accomplishment? Legislation to teach "comprehensive sex education" to kindergartners. Learning about sex before learning to read?

Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."

 

The facts: 1. The bill was not Obama's. The sponsors were Democrats Carol Ronen, M. Maggie Crotty, Susan Garrett , Iris Y. Martinez and Jeffrey M. Schoenberg 2. The measure never passed. 3. The legislation in several places said all sex ed had to be "age and developmentally appropriate." Obama backed teaching youngsters about inappropriate touching by strangers. 4. The bill would let parents opt out of a sex education course.

 

 

Wasn't he the chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee where the bill was sent and passed through?

 

And, again, who determines what is "age and developmentally appropriate"?

 

 

BTW the southern strategy is termed now to include all racially charged campaign issues regardless of where they use them Not just the south. But I should have known that republican/republican supporters will use a litteral menaings of the words test here.

 

 

No. I simply questioned how "racially charged" ads would play in the non-Southern states where they are being used. Of course, my larger point is how it is ridiculous that this is being portrayed as a racially-charged issue. It's not. And the fact that there are white kids in the ad does not make it racial.

[lost highway]

I like how Jules always seems calm. Every Jules post reads like Samual L. Jackson said it to me in his most mellow "Royale with Cheese" mode.

 

It seems Obama's witty swipe at Palin is earning him some bad press. This is only gonna get weirder and weirder.

[sweetheart-mine]

Personally, I think the fact that she has been able to go from mom to city council to mayor to governor pretty much personifies what feminism is supposed to be about.

joan walsh of "salon" agrees with you. actually, not for the same reasons, but she admires palin as a fighter and believes that makes her a feminist.

[John Smith]

He did vote for it, though, right?

 

His voting for the bill is irrelevant, what is relevant is the perverted way the republican party is twisiting the meaning of the bill and how Obama himself has talked about the bill. But whever said that the striaght talk express was actually about striaght talking? This line of argument/campaigning from the republicans is one reason I left the party, geroge W bush was the other.

[Party @ the Moontower]

Personally, I think the fact that she has been able to go from mom to city council to mayor to governor pretty much personifies what feminism is supposed to be about.

 

But somehow, a woman who chooses to be pro-life cannot be a feminist. It doesn't make sense. Then again, I focus on the aspects of equal opportunity, equal pay, etc., when I think of feminism.

I'm not sure I feel getting a great job is how a feminist is born. I respect myself for choosing a career that allows me to work part-time and be a mom almost full time, although VC cuts into my mom time a little too much. I think you won't find one definition out there to satisfy this board. It's what you say above, it encompases many issues. It's similar to most things, everyone has a different take on it.

 

To me, it means making your own choices and standing up for the right to do so. I am pro-choice, but I respect a woman's choice to be pro-life, just don't try and take away my decision. A true feminist allows a woman to make their own choices and fights for that right for all women.

[MattZ]

I'm starting to feel the same way, and getting really pissed @ Obama for being such a damn pussy.

 

It's not so simple. Obama is stuck in a tough catch-22. Attacking allows the other side to paint him as the "politician for 'change' that is playing the same old attack game." So much of who he is now was defined by how he ran his primary campaign -- staying above the fray, staying on message, insisting that issues matter, being a different kind of politician, etc. Going on the attack now (i.e., telling the country that McCain/Palin are liars) could backfire. He could be portrayed as the guy who didnt stick to his own game, or the guy who attacked a war hero, or the guy who attacked a woman. And, I hate to say it, but I wouldnt be surprised if he is worried that going on the attack allows him to be portrayed as the "angry black guy." It's sad that we are still at that point, but I think it's naive to think that that doesn't play into the calculation. Obama is really boxed in right now. I have to tip my cap to the Republicans. I think McCain is running a shameful campaign. A shameful campaign that is flat out brilliant if you want to win and don't care how you get there. The question is, can Obama get down in the dirt with them? We just don't know because I'd bet Obama himself doesn't know. He is smart enough to figure this out. I have faith in him.