Brand Spanking New Election Thread

[Winston Legthigh]

Led Dawn II: 300 Mirrion Angly Chinamen

 

Fixed it for you.

[John Smith]

The american people and it's government are not the same fucking thing. God damn.

 

Unfortunately beyond our borders people tend to identify the government annd the people as being one and the same especialy since the government is so visible doing what they do.

 

I still maintain that Katrina was a failure by government at all levels and by both parties.

 

I find very few democrats who argue agains this point. I would even go so far as to say that katriian was even partiallya failure of the citizens of New Orleans too. What I do find is that very few republicans will admit that thhe adminsitration gutted FEMA and through the actions of the administration, the federal response was slow and inadequate and to date has not improved. I look to see Galveston being rebuilt before New Orleans and rebuilt with Huge federal assistance.

 

You know, going to the original premise of this goofy argument I do have to agree that we did come together with a can-do attitude and the country was behind the president as was a good portion of the rest of the world. Here is where the whole situation devolved in my opinion. Probably shortly after 9/11 we started losing support and a little cohesion when the bomb Iraq talk started, and it started a whole lot earlier than people realize. Still though the country was generally united. Heck (after his WTC appearance, prior to that he had a deer in the headlights look and feel to him) even I though Bush was doing a good job of rallying the country and the world to a common cause. It was obvious though that world wide support started to unravel the more the neocons rattled their sabers at everyone. And then GWB made his 2002 state of the union address... and we started to hemorrhage allies the more we talked about taking out this country or that country etc

[Party @ the Moontower]

What exactly were people supposed to do? I live in Michigan. Was I supposed to drive to NYC and NOLA and help dig people out? I think most people were sending vibes, saying prayers, etc because beyond donating money and supplies, there wasn't really anything they COULD do. I don't know of anyone who didn't give a damn.

My point is still that most people went on as usual, as if it never happened.Elected the Bush administration again, and let the government slide on 911 help and questions. Same thing happened with Katrina. So no, I really do not feel safe if war comes home. I don't trust the government or it's people 100% to be there.

 

What I want from people is to elect leaders at all levels that will truly listen to the people and lead this country in a direction that keeps us safe from things like terrorism and national disasters. I feel like the republicans have used 911 left and right before doing the right thing. I find fault with the apathetic people of America who are sitting on the sidelines during this election, and most things.

[embiggen]

go shopping! that's the solution!

[Winston Legthigh]

So no, I really do not feel safe if war comes home.

Heard of a van that is loaded with weapons

packed up and ready to go

Heard of some gravesites, out by the highway

a place where nobody knows

The sound of gunfire, off in the distance

I'm getting used to it now

Lived in a brownstone, lived in the ghetto

I've lived all over this town

 

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco

this ain't no fooling around

No time for dancing, or lovey dovey

I ain't got time for that now

 

Transmit the message, to the receiver

hope for an answer some day

I got three passports, couple of visas

don't even know my real name

High on a hillside, trucks are loading

everything's ready to roll

I sleep in the daytime, I work in the nightime

I might not ever get home

 

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco

this ain't no fooling around

This ain't no mudd club, or C.B.G.B.

I ain't got time for that now

 

Heard about Houston? Heard about Detroit?

Heard about Pittsburgh, PA?

You oughta know not to stand by the window

somebody might see you up there

I got some groceries, some peanut butter

to last a couple of days

But I ain't got no speakers

ain't got no headphones

ain't got no records to play

 

Why stay in college? Why go to night school?

Gonna be different this time?

Can't write a letter, can't send a postcard

I can't write nothing at all

This ain't no party, this ain't no disco

this ain't no fooling around

I'd love you hold you, I'd like to kiss you

I ain't got no time for that now

 

Trouble in transit, got through the roadblock

we blended in with the crowd

We got computers, we're tapping phone lines

I know that ain't allowed

We dress like students, we dress like housewives

or in a suit and a tie

I changed my hairstyle so many times now

don't know what I look like!

You make me shiver, I feel so tender

we make a pretty good team

Don't get exhausted, I'll do some driving

you ought to get you some sleep

Get you instructions, follow directions

then you should change your address

Maybe tomorrow, maybe the next day

whatever you think is best

Burned all my notebooks, what good are notebooks?

They won't help me survive

My chest is aching, burns like a furnace

the burning keeps me alive

Try to stay healthy, physical fitness

don't want to catch no disease

Try to be careful, don't take no chances

you better watch what you say

[John Smith]

Was the local government in New Orleans and LA not overwhelmingly democratic?

 

Yep both were, but also remamber that democrats in the south are fairly conservative comapred to the rest of the country and if I am not mistaken Nagin endorsed Bush for president. SO party may have been democrat but Ideology wasd definately not far left liberal as they have been portrayed.

[Party @ the Moontower]

Good idea... beer shopping.

[John Smith]

Good idea... beer shopping.

 

Not for $1,200 budweiser though

[Good Old Neon]

and: 'I

[austrya]

My point is still that most people went on as usual, as if it never happened.Elected the Bush administration again, and let the government slide on 911 help and questions. Same thing happened with Katrina. So no, I really do not feel safe if war comes home. I don't trust the government or it's people 100% to be there.

 

What I want from people is to elect leaders at all levels that will truly listen to the people and lead this country in a direction that keeps us safe from things like terrorism and national disasters. I fell like the republicans have used 911 left and right before doing the right thing. I find fault with the apathetic people of America who are sitting on the sidelines during this election, and most things.

 

Besides re-electing Bush and all that, what makes you think they just went on as usual? Because they went to work the next day? Because they had to go pick their kids up a pair of shoes for school at the mall? Because they took their family out to eat? What were they supposed to do? Life goes on. If someone isn't directly affected, it doesn't mean they don't care. People have jobs, kids, homes that need to be taken care of too. I don't remember much of anything that I did in the days following 9/11 as that time was pretty much a fog. I do know that I had to go to work the next day or I ran the risk of losing my job. I may have gone to the mall, I may have gone out to eat. That didn't mean that what happend in NYC wasn't on my mind just about every minute of the day. It doesn't mean those same people didn't donate time to organize supplies to be sent, or that they didn't donate money to help.

[Party @ the Moontower]

Not for $1,200 budweiser though

 

That's scary!

[bjorn_skurj]

Not for $1,200 budweiser though

"That'd be awful."

[sweetheart-mine]

exhausting reading.

 

many individual people were selfless and giving in countless ways both on the scene on 9/11 and for a long time afterward. this means that american people, like others in most countries, care enough about their neighbors to do something, whatever they can at the time, when tragedy hits. this describes a good portion of humanity the world over, period, and at those times the best that many people have to offer comes to the fore. it's moving. hell, i sometimes choke up when people actually forget their own personal road missions enough to automatically pull over when they notice an ambulance or rescue van coming up behind them trying to get through to someone in need.

 

i would never take this for granted; it's to be cherished and encouraged.

 

as some have pointed out, there is a huge difference between people helping others and how their government behaves in the world. countless individuals behaved heroically on 9/11 and do so when other kinds of tragedies strike also. our government has not behaved heroically since 9/11, including katrina but also in many smaller ways too numerous to count or even for some people to notice.

 

there's a really disturbing disconnect here. when so many individuals are apt to step up and do the right thing on a personal level, why is it that they continue to elect governments that do the opposite? despite some election fraud, why is it that people who will bend over backwards -- and sometimes even put their own lives at risk -- to help their neighbors end up throwing their voting support behind politicians whose leadership they've either seen or suspect will not represent their best selves both at home and abroad? i don't understand this.

[Party @ the Moontower]

If someone isn't directly affected, it doesn't mean they don't care.

 

Let's end this please. I explained that some people really did not care past the intial media craze. These are the same people who elected Bush without a nod to the fact 911 should not have happened to begin with. These are the people who left many doors to answers and help concerning 911 closed. These are the people that love Palin because McCain said so. These are the people who ignore what really happens in government. These are people who may not even vote.....they will go on with their life as usual and with as little concern for people as they can get away with.

 

This has less to do with 911, and what your asking me what average people can do for such things...it's about my issue with people ignoring what goes on in this country until it is in their face.

[bjorn_skurj]

This has less to do with 911, and what your asking me what average people can do for such things...it's about my issue with people ignoring what goes on in this country until it is in their face.

That's kinda just human nature, though. Bring back the draft, and people's dislike for the war in Iraq will turn serious just like that.

[Winston Legthigh]

there's a really disturbing disconnect here. when so many individuals are apt to step up and do the right thing on a personal level, why is it that they continue to elect governments that do the opposite? despite some election fraud, why is it that people who will bend over backwards -- and sometimes even put their own lives at risk -- to help their neighbors end up throwing their voting support behind politicians whose leadership they've either seen or suspect will not represent their best selves both at home and abroad? i don't understand this.

some people believe that it's not the government's (federal or otherwise) function to provide social services.

[Party @ the Moontower]

there's a really disturbing disconnect here. when so many individuals are apt to step up and do the right thing on a personal level, why is it that they continue to elect governments that do the opposite?

 

Thank you for that post. This is exactly what I have been trying to say.

[Party @ the Moontower]

That's kinda just human nature, though. Bring back the draft, and people's dislike for the war in Iraq will turn serious just like that.

 

I know it's human nature

[fatheadfred]

That's kinda just human nature, though. Bring back the draft, and people's dislike for the war in Iraq will turn serious just like that.

 

This appears to be the only thing that will bring youth into the fold. But, I hope that doesn't happen. I guess, "continue to be apathetic, like I was during my first 5 years of college."

 

So McPain calls for complete reform of economic policies (read from a notebook, real sincere and knowledgeable). Does he realize his buddy, Phil Gramm, deregulated that shit...and energy regulation? Oh, yeah, he forgot. Too old I guess. Good thing his VP is young and knowledgeable about such things. Oh, shit, she's young anyway.

[Party @ the Moontower]

On the home front is was also becoming more and more clear that Bush & the republican party were going to politicize the hell out of 911 and use it at every opportunity to sell what they desired, but what the country had previously found un-palatable.

 

All that being said this administration has been hugely successful at getting it's way nearly all the time. Even in the face of certain failure they get their way by cowing congress and using 911 smoke and mirrors. In terms of execution, they have been miserable failures.

 

Both excellent statements.

[bjorn_skurj]

If things get bad enough that politicians will push for a draft, holy shit.

[Analogman]

If things get bad enough that politicians will push for a draft, holy shit.

 

 

Selective Service System

[MattZ]

Most people in the country did nothing.

Most of the country went on as if nothing happened, just like they do about most things.

 

 

I explained that some people really did not care past the intial media craze.

 

You seem to be backtracking here. From most to some. Either way, as austrya eloquently stated, how can you tell one way or the other whether people "cared" or not? By citing the fact that they went to the mall? Irrelevant. People need to support their families by, yes, shopping for them. That doesnt mean that the events werent at the front of people's minds. And I'd be willing to bet that "most" of those people would've volunteered to help if there was something they could do from halfway across the country. Heck, people in NYC were turned away from blood banks. People in NYC could barely volunteer. What would you have people in Idaho do?

[Guest Jules]

and: 'I

[fatheadfred]

What would you have people in Idaho do?

Volunteer. Our gov't spent trillions to allow people to fight, but not help.