Brand Spanking New Election Thread

[fatheadfred]

jesus does not advocate any particular form of government. not to mention he was born 1800 years before marx.

and people have seen Karl

[Sal]

and people have seen Karl

 

 

True, very true.

[MrRain422]

I'm not sure that Jesus was actually a Marxist, but I don't think being born 1800 years before Marx precludes the possibility. If his philosophy matches the criteria, then he's a Marxist, even if that term didn't exist yet at the time.

[Mrs. Peel]

Marx was a Christist.

[bjorn_skurj]

Saieth the Lord: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."

[bleedorange]

I'm not accusing the NY Times of cherry picking quotes, I'm accusing you of attributing too much meaning to those quotes. Yes, the Republican majorities were small, but you said "Republicans weren't the ones in charge" which is false.

 

Frankly I think there's enough blame to go around for both parties, but I think Obama's proposed economic solutions make more sense than McCain's insistence that the economy is doing great.

 

 

I meant the ones in charge at the two companies. The ones actually falsifying the books. Not who had a majority in Congress.

[fatheadfred]

Didn't you watch the RNC? They are against community organizing.

Yeah, it's my newfound interest since they hate it, it must be good. After all, we are talking in absolutes. -Sith Lord

 

Marx was a Christist.

Haa. -Chris 'Tweety' Matthews

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Jesus was more like a (communitarian) anarchist than anything. For the record.

[austrya]

Perhaps helping families that lost family members. Helping with clean up. Helping with business continuity. And while I wasn't in the area, I would assume there is much more that could have helped people in the area. Oh, and it also could've helped if they had more environmental engineers to determine the safety and, therefore, the precautions of the actual clean up. I don't mean to one up you, I just wish more money and effort were given to community building instead of retaliation.

 

How was I, in Michigan with a family and a job that I desparately needed at the time, supposed to go help with clean up? You had to be a trained professional to go in there. They wouldn't let anyone with a shovel who wanted to help in there.

 

How was I supposed to help with the families who lost loved ones? Besides donating money, that is. Grieving is a very private time, I couldn't just look someone up in the phone book and call and ask if there was anything I could do to help. I couldn't travel there, I had two little kids at the time.

 

There were benefits that people donated to, there were blood drives, there were all sorts of volunteer efforts for the people who could help.

 

Just because someone seemed to get on with their lives in light of a crisis, doesn't mean they didn't do what they could to help the cause. Who said they didn't volunteer? People can't volunteer 24 hours a day. Eventually they have to take care of themselves along the way too.

 

I agree that the government could have done more, but don't blame the general population for not coming together to help in a crisis. Look how people rallied during the Tsunami. I was a single parent at the time, raising two kids, barely keeping my head above water and I donated. I did without so I could help someone who needed it. Yeah, I might have gone to the mall that day, but again, it doesn't mean that I didn't help.

[kwall]

I'm not sure that Jesus was actually a Marxist, but I don't think being born 1800 years before Marx precludes the possibility. If his philosophy matches the criteria, then he's a Marxist, even if that term didn't exist yet at the time.

jesus teaches us to take care of the poor. he does not teach us to establish a form of government that will confiscate other people's wealth and take care of the poor for us.

 

and people have seen Karl

how do you know?

[bjorn_skurj]

A lot of New Yorkers and others helped in the days after Sept. 11. Some of the ones at Ground Zero paid a high price to do so by exposing themselves to a lot of toxic crud. There are a lot of programs and charities to help the families of the victims, but one hears stories of people falling through the cracks or families thrown into poverty because their main wage-earner was killed. It's impossible to make everything better after something like that, but I can tell you the greater New York metropolitan area did quite a bit and still do.

[kwall]

Thanks! I wish Obama had come out strong on this early on. McCain has strongly convinced people otherwise

"WASHINGTON: Democrat Barack Obama says he would delay rescinding President George W. Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy. "

 

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/P...how/3456064.cms

[mountain bed]

If only. Unfortunately, someone far enough left for my taste will never be a viable candidate.

[viatroy]

Marx was a Christist.

 

 

I think you nailed it.

 

Jesus was more like a (communitarian) anarchist than anything. For the record.

 

 

also nice!

[Party @ the Moontower]

"WASHINGTON: Democrat Barack Obama says he would delay rescinding President George W. Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy. "

 

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/P...how/3456064.cms

 

 

Dude, calling me out again. I did not post the graph, yet, you call me out? I read the graph, and the other graphs, and lots of graphs, listened to McCain and Obama, and read your link, and read lots & lots of links. I even had chicken & link soup for dinner, with a side of Obama mania pudding.

 

I still believe the middle will pay less with Obama's plan than McCain's. I think he will spend our tax $'s on shit I care about, not more war and corporate interests. I see my tax dollars under Obama being spent @ home where it belongs.The war in Iraq has already cost over 500 gazillion billion $$$$ , and goes up each day. A war McCain supports. McCain is lying about Obama raising taxes on the middle.

The rich will forever stay rich, finding ways around paying their fair share of taxes under anyone's plan. If you make over 250k a year, Mr. McChange is your old dude. If you make less than that, Obama be the man.

[Party @ the Moontower]

In Macomb County, Michigan, people with forclosed homes may be blocked from voting in the upcoming election.

The chairman of the Republican Party in Macomb County, Michigan, a key swing county in a key swing state, is planning to use a list of foreclosed homes to block people from voting in the upcoming election as part of the state GOP's effort to challenge some voters on Election Day.

http://www.michiganmessenger.com/4076/lose...-lose-your-vote

Here is a sweet list of a few more of the GOP's voter suppresion efforts-

http://www.pruningshears.us/pruning-shears...in-tyranny.html

[ikol]

I wonder what the graph would look like if it showed percentage of the tax burden.

[viatroy]

When the wealthiest 1/10 of 1 percent is worth a trillion dollars, more than the lowest 50 percent combined .... hmmmm, let me do the math.

[John Smith]

Ah, yes. By wide and vast margins -- two seats in the Senate, about 20 in the House.

 

A margin of one in each house of congress when combnined witha willing president is a nearly unbreakable majority. Especially when at the time republican chairs were shutting democrats out on providig input into many bills. But in the longrun majority = majority, whether by one or by 21.

 

I think you completely missed the point. Of course, it is something that has been brewing for years. The desire for all people to own their own homes regardless of whether they could afford them. That's what started it all. Of course, there was no accounting for the criminal executives that cooked the books that enabled them to make loans with no real regard for the future while raking in millions in personal compensation. The fact that these were all democrats or democratic appointees seems to be immaterial to some.

 

There is evidence that the Bush Administration appealed for reform in 2003 and John McCain co-sponsored a bill in 2005 addressing this very issue regarding Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, and GSEs in general. But nothing got done and now here we are.

 

But it's all the Republicans' fault.

 

I don't believe that there has been any ccooking of the books here, that was 2000 - 2002 or so. I think this has all been brought about by the republican party's second favorite topic - deregualtion. The breaking down of the barriers between the various financial institutions, the products that the business people were able to think up as a result of the deregulation etc... and remember a prime mover in this game was Phil Graham who championed the Enron law, which is creepinginto todays troubles. The same Phil Graham who will probably be McCains pick for Treasury. And to say Bush talked about reform while you keep blaming the democrats is disengenuous. If Bush thought it was a bad law, he could have vetoed it. They didn't have the 2/3 to override the veto. Nope at this point I would have thought that everyone would already know that what Bush say's and what he does are not necessarilly going to be the same thing.

 

 

I wonder what the graph would look like if it showed percentage of the tax burden.

 

I wonder what the graph would look like if you showed percentage of tax burden vs income? The old arguemnt that the top 1% pay XX% of the taxes looks and sounds good, except when you see that they recieve xx+1% of the income.

[John Smith]

Happy Constitution Day!

[fatheadfred]

How was I, in Michigan with a family and a job that I desparately needed at the time, supposed to go help with clean up? You had to be a trained professional to go in there. They wouldn't let anyone with a shovel who wanted to help in there.

 

How was I supposed to help with the families who lost loved ones? Besides donating money, that is. Grieving is a very private time, I couldn't just look someone up in the phone book and call and ask if there was anything I could do to help. I couldn't travel there, I had two little kids at the time.

 

There were benefits that people donated to, there were blood drives, there were all sorts of volunteer efforts for the people who could help.

 

Just because someone seemed to get on with their lives in light of a crisis, doesn't mean they didn't do what they could to help the cause. Who said they didn't volunteer? People can't volunteer 24 hours a day. Eventually they have to take care of themselves along the way too.

 

I agree that the government could have done more, but don't blame the general population for not coming together to help in a crisis. Look how people rallied during the Tsunami. I was a single parent at the time, raising two kids, barely keeping my head above water and I donated. I did without so I could help someone who needed it. Yeah, I might have gone to the mall that day, but again, it doesn't mean that I didn't help.

 

If you had a particular set of skills, e.g., counselor, heavy equipment operater, crisis & disaster mgt., environmental engineer, or just someone who enjoys physical labor, you could have been 'paid' to help. I know that people in these capacities did help, but the fact is many more could've helped if not for their own responsibilities, e.g., family, job, etc.

 

I am not blaming the population. In hindsight, armchair quarterback thinks more gov't leadership in other areas besides promoting shopping and retaliation may have helped.

 

jesus teaches us to take care of the poor. he does not teach us to establish a form of government that will confiscate other people's wealth and take care of the poor for us.

 

 

how do you know?

 

He has been published...wait so is Jesus. Shit. He has pictures, wait, Jesus was in a Cheeto. Shit. I guess you're right.

[fatheadfred]

"WASHINGTON: Democrat Barack Obama says he would delay rescinding President George W. Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy. "

 

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/News/P...how/3456064.cms

 

Duh, would you like him to emulate Dub's 'resolve' and push on with a plan that he configured 1 year ago? Of course he wouldn't cut taxes IF we were in a recession.

[fatheadfred]

Happy Constitution Day!

 

Yeah, the rules we used prior to 2001. Cheers.

[kwall]

Duh, would you like him to emulate Dub's 'resolve' and push on with a plan that he configured 1 year ago? Of course he wouldn't cut taxes IF we were in a recession.

read again. he says he wouldn't raise taxes if we were in a recession, tacitly admitting that raising taxes hurts the economy.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Just as both parties wouldn't sign off on a deficit-spending stimulus package during a boom, right?