Hold on just one damn minute...

[LouieB]

Is that so bad?

Once again you are going to think I am an arrogant prick...but yea it is; because it divorces what happened toally from history. If you want to divorce yourself from history then he is just another polititician. the entire problem with this thread is the lack of historical perspective on his candidacy...(sorry about the poor spelling it is the middle of the night...) It is the same issue I have with jc4pres and all the rest of you guys who want to diminish this moment (even though I was acccused of that...). This IS important and only people with a lack of perspective are going to miss it.

 

If I have to be up talking to you this hour of the night at least tune into my daughter's radio show (Tweedy's Gurl on the air and get connected...she is playing 2 cow garage...)

 

LouieB

[bobbob1313]

Once again you are going to think I am an arrogant prick...but yea it is; because it divorces what happened toally from history. If you want to divorce yourself from history then he is just another polititician. the entire problem with this thread is the lack of historical perspective on his candidacy...(sorry about the poor spelling it is the middle of the night...) It is the same issue I have with jc4pres and all the rest of you guys who want to diminish this moment (even though I was acccused of that...). This IS important and only people with a lack of perspective are going to miss it.

 

If I have to be up talking to you this hour of the night at least tune into my daughter's radio show (Tweedy's Gurl on the air and get connected...she is playing 2 cow garage...)

 

LouieB

 

I would totally listen to Teeg's show, but my pc has no sound. Don't think the radio waves will reach south florida either.

 

I mean, I do get the historical part of it. I had legitimate chills watching him give the acceptance speech. But it's more of a cool footnote for me.

 

I'm not divorcing it from history, but you have to put it into the proper perspective. He's not going to be judged as a black president, just as he hasn't run as a black candidate. If we want to stop for a few days and just admire the accomplishment, that's fine, but at the end of the day, if this is what defines him as a person and a president, then he'll have failed before he even begins.

[Spawn's dad]

Race wasn't the main issue though, which is what makes it truly historic. He got

elected on his merits, not as an affirmative action deal.

 

If the economy hadn't tanked and/or McCain picked a running mate who didn't

derail the campaign this easily could have swung a different way. But Obama

showed stability and leadership in the campaign and that's why he won.

 

Yes, there's historic perspective, but if it's made to be all about color that's

doing everyone a disservice. It's all just stays about color then. We get stuck

seeing the differences between people. Not the similarities. Not the leadership

qualities. Obama isn't going to be my black president. Just my president.

[LouieB]

Stop over thinking this already okay? I am willing to stop hassling you, but the REASON you had chills was because this was an historic moment. You know that don't you?? Go look at the pics posted that I was commenting on. This may seem like ancient history to you, but it isn't. I am simply not that old (even though jen thinks I am closer to her age than I am..), but I do remember this stuff as a child.

 

Sure, it passed through my poor addled brain that Jesse Jackson was crying because it wasn't HIM up there, but that simply wasn't it and it isn't it for Oprah and it isn't it for those throngs of African Americans on the South side of Chicago or the communities that came out all over the country to literally push Barack over the finish line. It's the reason he won Indiana, Ohio, FLA and many other states.

 

Barack should and will be judged on his merits, but the undeniable fact of his race (he is also Irish and we had a drink to that the other night too..) and the race of his family, keeps this from just being another election.

 

LouieB

[bobbob1313]

Of course I had chills because it was a historical moment. And then I moved on. Just like we all have to move on. If we dwell on his race, it does a disservice to him and to our country. Dwelling on him as the black president is only going to further divide us and make it easier to bring him down and his race with him.

 

He was the first black man to be elected President. Now he's just the next president.

[LouieB]

Of course I had chills because it was a historical moment. And then I moved on. Just like we all have to move on. If we dwell on his race, it does a disservice to him and to our country. Dwelling on him as the black president is only going to further divide us and make it easier to bring him down and his race with him.

 

He was the first black man to be elected President. Now he's just the next president.

Well see this is why we have a significant difference of opinion. This is NOT what divides us at all. This is what unites us. We have come to the point where the majority of americans are willing to consider and actually vote for a person of color for president. We need to dwell on this for a time, to dismiss it so easily is both unfair and diminishes the accomplishment. He is not now nor will he ever be just "another president". George W Bush was just another president, but Barack Obama is not.

 

LouieB

[M. (hristine]

Well, if he pushes hard on the comfort level of those in this country for whom race is still an issue, I won't be sad.

[LouieB]

Well, if he pushes hard on the comfort level of those in this country for whom race is still an issue, I won't be sad.

Exactly....are you an insomniac or what?? Check out Rosie's radio show...

 

LouieB

[M. (hristine]

majority of americans

LouieB

A very slim majority.

 

There is still huge disparity between urban and rural voters.

[LouieB]

Slim is better than none and as I said early it has brought out a ton of people who haven't even voted with an regularity because Barack is not simply another politician or another president.

 

LouieB

[Guest Speed Racer]

oh like that time he said he wouldn't take public financing or that time he said he'd work with his opponent to ensure campaign spending was kept reasonable as to not empower lobbyists and then outspent his opponent tenfold

 

man, honesty.

 

Which is exactly the example of dishonesty I mention in my next sentence. Way to selectively quote! The majority of his donations were under $25 - hardly lobbyists. Again, the organization of his campaign kept those kinds of attacks from sticking. The worst you can say is that the middle class voters are throwing money at him?

 

please, get real. This guy is just another president. I don't dislike him or hope he fails, but jeez, what Kool-Aid are you people drinking?

 

Everything you wrote - you're absolutely right! Which is why blacks and women have ALWAYS been welcomed in positions of power. In fact, most CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are minorities and women! Black people have always been welcomed as our school teachers, sat next to us on buses, and lived and worked side by side with their white counterparts since the dawn of time! Nobody has ever thought to turn a fire hose on minorities, or ever hang them from trees, for trying to share our world! Women have never so much as experienced a pay disparity or sexual harrassment in the work place; god bless America!

 

As I've said previously in this thread, the fact that we're willing to elect a minority to the highest office in the country - to lead our nation - and think he's just as bad as the next guy is the BIG deal. The fact that we think he'll lie just as much, the fact that a black teacher will be just as mean or boring, the fact that a black or female astronaut is just as likely to make the ship explode, the fact that a black CEO might be just as likely to engage in fraud and insider trading - THAT is the progress.

 

Most of the reactions from people in my life aren't, "he's BLACK, and he's OUR SAVIOR!" they're, "he's BLACK - America isn't as asshat stupid as I thought!"

 

It's not kool-aid, it's reality and it's history. Get over it now if you like, but whether I'm disappointed in his presidency or not, the privilege of experiencing it, judging it at all is something I'm going to enjoy for at least the next four years if that's alright.

[Analogman]

Hackers and Spending Sprees

 

The computer systems of both the Obama and McCain campaigns were victims of a sophisticated cyberattack by an unknown "foreign entity," prompting a federal investigation, NEWSWEEK reports today.

 

At the Obama headquarters in midsummer, technology experts detected what they initially thought was a computer virus

[MrRain422]

It's been less than a day and a half since the networks called the race for Obama, and still more than 2 months until he is inaugurated. I think anything is fair game to still be talking about at this point and still not qualify as "dwelling" on it. It just happened. I'm not sure what the time limit is for talking about something of such a great historical magnitude, but I am absolutely certain that it's longer than 36 hours.

[mfwahl]

Video showing different newspaper front pages from yesterday celebrating Obama's win

[MattZ]

B2 makes a good point. Obama was afforded the luxury of the McCain campaign derailing itself. But rest assured, he could've and would've gone ugly if the need arised.

 

I'd disagree with this... If you remember when McCain got the initial Palin bump, and McCain/Palin were on the offensive and his lead was shrinking, lots of nervous Democrats (some here included) immediately started calling for Obama to hit back. When was he going to start fighting? When was he going to show that he couldn't be walked all over?

 

He refused to fight back and insisted that a candidate could be elected to the highest office in this country by sticking to his ideals, by sticking to his platform. Now, if you want to tell me that such a move was just as calculated as any decision to attack, that's fine. It's entirely possible that he wanted to attack, but decided he couldn't, either because of fear of being labeled as "angry black man" or because he thought that he'd expose himself to attacks from the other side about abandoning his message.

 

One thing is clear -- Obama set a course and stuck to it. Even when the pundits insisted he couldn't do it. He didn't pick HRC as his veep when everyone thought he should. He didn't attack when everyone thought he should. He just ran a virtually perfect campaign.

 

EDIT: I think it's unfair (or way too naive) to suggest that McCain handed him an easy race to run. There were lots of opportunities to go off message. Or to fumble the ball. He never did. He also ran a perfect campaign against Hillary and the 2am phone calls.

[MattZ]

"I was born in 1941, the year Pearl Harbor was bombed. It has been dark ever since. I guess things are really gonna change now" - Bob Dylan live at University of Minnesota, Minneapolis Nov 4, 2008, right before the last song of the show, Blowing In The Wind.

 

This is pretty awesome. That's one guy who's brain I'd love to pick this morning. You can never really trust what comes out of his mouth, but if he's playing Blowing In The Wind after a statement like that, I don't think he's being sarcastic. He may be full of sh*t when he gives quotes, but I don't think he's ever full of sh*t when he plays his music.

[mfwahl]

EDIT: I think it's unfair (or way too naive) to suggest that McCain handed him an easy race to run. There were lots of opportunities to go off message. Or to fumble the ball. He never did. He also ran a perfect campaign against Hillary and the 2am phone calls.

It was 3 am. Everyone knows national crises come at 3 am and booty calls come at 2am.

[MattZ]

It was 3 am. Everyone knows national crises come at 3 am and booty calls come at 2am.

 

Haha, I think you're right. And to keep with the Bob Dylan theme:

 

from Cry Awhile:

 

Last night 'cross the alley there was a pounding on the walls

It must have been Don Pasquale makin' a two a.m. booty call

To break a trusting heart like mine was just your style

Well, I cried for you - now it's your turn to cry awhile

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

It's a pretty big deal for a black man to be elected president, when less than 50 years ago we were dealing with...

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think there's anything wrong with the media covering the fact that it's a monumental moment for African-Americans.

 

It's definitely a landmark moment. However, Obama never ran as an African-American. He ran as an American. Obama rose above the rhetoric of jubilee and, by doing so, emerged as a transcendant figure.

[Spawn's dad]

there's a large body of work on the ntkonal political stage that indicates, back against tnhe wall a candidate goes negative. The palin bump didn't put his back against the wall. Im sure the campaign believed it was a temporary bump.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Yup, I agree. It is historically significant, of course, but it is far more significant, in my opinion, that he wasn't elected because of his race, despite his race, but more with complete disregard for it.

 

 

Well said.

 

Now...

 

Over and under for the honeymoon.

[dondoboy]

Is it tacky that I haven't taken down my Obama yard sign?

[bobfrombob]

It's starting to sink in that Obama really really won. I saw a picture of him on the cover of Time magazine and everything. It's true.

 

A friend sent me this today:

 

"Rosa (Parks) sat so Martin (Luther King) could walk. Martin walked so Obama could run. Obama ran so our children could fly." -- Mike Victor, Chicago southside resident, Nov. 4, 2008.

[MattZ]

there's a large body of work on the ntkonal political stage that indicates, back against tnhe wall a candidate goes negative. The palin bump didn't put his back against the wall. Im sure the campaign believed it was a temporary bump.

 

Ok, fair point.

We will never know, but I think Obama showed enough times in his campaign that it was going to be done his way. Not the conventional way. Case in point: picking Biden and telling HRC to take a long walk/short pier. And he was in a dogfight with HRC in the primary and didn't even approach negative. But yes, you are right. His back was never truly against the wall. No way to know what would have happened if it got desperate.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

A breakthrough in journalism. I weep for the fact that Edward R. Murrow was not able to interview H.L. Mencken via hologram.

 

 

Holograms...

 

Absolutely breathtaking example of technology.

 

A new world dawns for media.

 

And it is used to interview a washed up rapper? Are you fucking kidding me?