Hold on just one damn minute...

[Sir Stewart]

Sidenote: I forget who it was but someone made the joke about the First Pooch "pals around with terriers." FWIW, Bill Maher stole your joke (unless you stole it from him) on Real Time.

 

I take credit for coming up with it on my own, but I can't say it wasn't a little obvious.

[Dude]

I'm just speculating but I think it's possible that the new dip in Bush's numbers could be because, before the election, some Republicans may have been staying behind him as a matter of trying to not let the party look bad, but now that it's over there's no reason to stand behind him any longer. Just a guess.

True - it's now become politically expedient to blame Bush - even Palin is jumping on the bandwagon:

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/A...ory/764291.html

[quarter23cd]

That seems random. What has the dude done recently to further disgrace himself?

Well, there's that little thing about Republicans blaming him for destroying their party and stuff. Watching unexpected parts of that map turn blue, largely as a result of massive nationwide backlash, might be enough to convince the last few holdouts that Bush might not be so awesome after all.

[austrya]

I take credit for coming up with it on my own, but I can't say it wasn't a little obvious.

 

Next time

[mfwahl]

I think that the reason this Congress has such a low approval rating is that:

 

1. Republicans who disagree with Democratic majority are going to disapprove.

 

2. Independents and Democrats that elected the Democratic majority are upset that the things that they wanted to get done aren't getting done. I would rate them low because the war is still going on but I would vote for more Democrats to get to a larger majority and/or a Democratic president who won't veto their legislation.

 

So they're getting it from both sides. The real test will be what gets done over the next six months.

[LouieB]

Kind of like how pork is great for your district, but is terrible, wasteful spending if it's for some place across the country.

and the way people think about education; that the system is terrible, but their local schools are just fine....

 

LouieB

[ZenLunatic]

I hear you Norbs. My mini-rant was directed more at ZenLunatic since he's often complaining about the bailout. I understand your point about the auto industry -- you don't want to reward perpetual failures. At the same time, it's a similar argument that was made about the banks -- they got themselves into this mess by being shortsighted and risky. I agree. The problem is that we've now got a situation where this country is so dependent on the banks that we couldn't let them fail. I dont know much about the auto industry, but Edie's opinion strikes me as pretty much right on the money.

 

Like I said, I don't have any answers. But I am confident that Obama can approach the situation sensibly and carefully. There is a real moral hazard problem here (ie, you never want a business in a capitalism-based economy thinking/knowing its too big to fail -- that's when they take outsized risks), not to mention, Zen's fair point about inflation. I just think that the Ron Pauls of the world (and ZenLunatics of the world) can call for no more bailouts because it's the sexy thing to do. It's also just not based in reality.

 

Also, ZenLunatic, while I have (and continue to) grant your point about the problems this may cause for the dollar, I still think that, in the end, the dollar has no reasonable competitor. The dollar is the world's currency. China is not going to start investing in the yen or the euro. Can that change? Sure. That's why we need to be careful. But we are not near that event yet. And if the economy collapses because we don't "bailout" the banks, as you suggest, there ain't gonna be anyone interested in buying dollars then either.

 

 

Okay, to get back to this. I understand your fears of what will happen if these giant business fail. There will be big consequences but you start to manage that instead of fixing failed business models because there is too much corruption and culture that is sometimes unfixable. Sometimes you gotta break things down completely to start from a sound foundation. The markets are still there. Someone will pick up the pieces of these failed business and create better models and start business that work and profit. Our efforts should be to facilitate rebuilding sound models. I understand the ripple effect the non-bailouts would mean, its gonna be really horrible, but it is what is needed because propping up this fake horrible economy will just lead to a worse crash in the future. The idea that there are companies to big too fail is wrong, it should never be. Thats what needs correcting. We will survive, it will be tough but be worth it when we have a free country and economy. Go back to the Constitution.

 

China just announced nearly $600 billion in stimulis for mainly infrastructure. This is China investing in themselves and trying to create more domestic demand while building their country. This is China's way of starting the trend of breaking away from depending on our economy and becoming more self-reliant. This is one of the countries we as Americans rely on for financing our stimulis and bailout programs. Instead of giving us money they are growing themselves. Watch them propel themselves past us. Watch as other countries learn from them.

 

Then where will we get our money from? Printing Press????? That's the first sure sign we are doomed.

 

I dont have the answers either, but this is what I see. Sorry for the bad outlook but until I see the government acting better, this is what I see.

[mountain bed]

That seems random. What has the dude done recently to further disgrace himself? The lame duck President thing seems like a pretty easy gig--he just makes nice and figures out who he's going to pardon. It's also funny that congress has a historically low approval rating and yet voters seem eager to elect more Democrats. Kinda puts the whole approval rating thing into question.

In response to the bold type: man, is THAT gonna be a shit-rain of ugliness. I always just assumed that IF anyone got into major trouble W would let them off the hook. But I guess "executive privilege" already has most of those bastards covered.

[jakobnicholas]

Couple things:

 

- South Park was pretty funny last week. It equally poked fun of supporters of each candidate. http://www.southparkstudios.com/

 

 

- Pitchfork just put up a story about various songs written by various artists in celebration of Obama's victory. For example, Brother Ali has a song called, "Mr. President, You're The Man." And the Dead Milkmen added new lyrics to an old song. A sampling of lyrics, "If the black guy with the Arab name can become president, there's nothing you motherfuckers can't do."

 

(Wow, it must have taken the Milkmen at least 4 seconds to write that.)

 

 

Why am I envisioning next year's crop of music as all touchy, feely, sunshine, rainbows, let's-all-the-teach-the-world-to-sing-in-perfect-harmony pap?

[Moe_Syzlak]

Why am I envisioning next year's crop of music as all touchy, feely, sunshine, rainbows, let's-all-the-teach-the-world-to-sing-in-perfect-harmony pap?

Because Radiohead isn't scheduled to release an album next year?

[Analogman]

Pete Townshend tips his hat to Obama

 

Posted by: Belinda Goldsmith

 

Pete Townshend is so impressed with President-elect Barack Obama that he has had to rethink the sentiment of his archly anti-political song

[mfwahl]

In the Israel newspaper Ma'ariv, Emanuel's father, Dr. Benjamin Emanuel said, "Obviously he will influence the president to be pro-Israel. Why wouldn't he be? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floors of the White House."

Wow.

[LouieB]

Wow.

I am STILL arguing with my old friend about Obama wanting to destroy Israel, even now, despite Emanuel's appointment to Chief of Staff and David Axelrod's probable appointment to a high level postion. My friend stlll thinks Barack is taking marching orders from Jeremiah Wright.

 

In other post election bad blood, Ralph Nader called Barack an Uncle Tom on Fox News.

 

LouieB

[quarter23cd]

Why am I envisioning next year's crop of music as all touchy, feely, sunshine, rainbows, let's-all-the-teach-the-world-to-sing-in-perfect-harmony pap?

I dunno, the last time we elected a new Democratic president in '92, we got Grunge. The general state of the world right now doesn't really suggest sunshine and rainbows to me, regardless of if people are happy about who just got elected or not.

[MattZ]

Wow.

 

Not that this is any sort of defense of the guy -- obviously I dont know him -- but the Israelis that I know would absolutely say something like this, but it would be a joke. Their humor is much more abrasive than ours is. These friends are also big time proponents of two states and peace. It's just a culture thing, I think. But still, this is a bad thing to say. And it certainly doesn't play well in print. Ugh. I have no idea if Emmanuel's father is a right wing nut who actually thinks Arabs should be washing floors, or if he is a left wing nut who just made a bad joke.

[Dude]

In other post election bad blood, Ralph Nader called Barack an Uncle Tom on Fox News.

 

LouieB

 

Things like this make me seriously wonder if Nader is secretly on the GOP payroll.

[LouieB]

Not that this is any sort of defense of the guy -- obviously I dont know him -- but the Israelis that I know would absolutely say something like this, but it would be a joke. Their humor is much more abrasive than ours is. These friends are also big time proponents of two states and peace. It's just a culture thing, I think. But still, this is a bad thing to say. And it certainly doesn't play well in print. Ugh. I have no idea if Emmanuel's father is a right wing nut who actually thinks Arabs should be washing floors, or if he is a left wing nut who just made a bad joke.

People here (such as me and others) can make bad, ill timed jokes and get away with it because we are nobody; all we do is irritate our fellow VCers. You are correct, many Israelis would say exactly this, but the fact that it is Rahm's father makes it ill timed and even worse. Rahm Emanuel is going to be the shadow president, that is no secret. For his father to make these kinds of jokes (or worse serious comments) at this juncture is simply bad news.

 

[quote name='Đ

[Spawn's dad]

Incidently if Nader supporters had voted Obama in Missouri, Barack would have won that state too.

LouieB

 

what's the difference?

[Winston Legthigh]

Incidently if McCain supporters had voted Obama in Missouri, Barack would have won that state too.

 

LouieB

Fixed it for you.

 

Nader-haters don't understand that people who vote for Nader aren't interested in voting for the Democratic party. So, why do you assume those votes were almost theirs?

[EL the Famous]

what's the difference?

 

'even more president-electy'

[MattZ]

Okay, to get back to this. I understand your fears of what will happen if these giant business fail. There will be big consequences but you start to manage that instead of fixing failed business models because there is too much corruption and culture that is sometimes unfixable. Sometimes you gotta break things down completely to start from a sound foundation. The markets are still there. Someone will pick up the pieces of these failed business and create better models and start business that work and profit. Our efforts should be to facilitate rebuilding sound models. I understand the ripple effect the non-bailouts would mean, its gonna be really horrible, but it is what is needed because propping up this fake horrible economy will just lead to a worse crash in the future. The idea that there are companies to big too fail is wrong, it should never be. Thats what needs correcting. We will survive, it will be tough but be worth it when we have a free country and economy. Go back to the Constitution.

 

ZL - I bolded the text above that I'd like to focus on. No one can predict what the ripple effect would have been, and to say in a throwaway line that it would be "horribe" misses the point. I will say it again: EVERYTHING in this country is funded with debt. Absolutely everything. From companies funding payroll with short term financing, to every car ever purchased, to every college tuition, to supermarkets stocking their shelves by pledging inventory as collateral. If credit dried up, "horrible" wouldnt even begin to describe what the fallout would have been. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to come up with almost unthinkable images of what this country would look like with banks failing and credit disappearing and insurance companies (like AIG) failing. Are you prepared to stand in line to buy food because your supermarket can't stock it's shelves any more? Think about it how wide ranging the fallout would be. Everything -- EVERYTHING -- in this country is debt financed. It's not preferrable but it's reality. We simply could not have weathered the storm without doing anything.

 

Government's responsibility is to protect the people. By acting, I think that we are now "lucky enough" to be forced to suffer through a bad recession or depression with unemployment rates skyrocketing. If the government did nothing, we will never know what would have happened, but your arguments are aided tremendously by this. It bears repeating that even a Republican administration knew that it had no choice and acted. Hank Paulson is Goldman Sachs-bred. Do you think he was raised on corporate welfare ideology? There was no choice here. It had to be done.

[Dude]

Fixed it for you.

 

Nader-haters don't understand that people who vote for Nader aren't interested in voting for the Democratic party a Democratically electable President. So, why do you assume those votes were almost theirs?

 

Fixed it for you.

[Winston Legthigh]

[quote name='Đ

[Dude]

Nader seems pretty cool with an Obama presidency here:

 

http://www.votenader.org/media/2008/11/05/congratulations/

[ZenLunatic]

ZL - I bolded the text above that I'd like to focus on. No one can predict what the ripple effect would have been, and to say in a throwaway line that it would be "horribe" misses the point. I will say it again: EVERYTHING in this country is funded with debt. Absolutely everything. From companies funding payroll with short term financing, to every car ever purchased, to every college tuition, to supermarkets stocking their shelves by pledging inventory as collateral. If credit dried up, "horrible" wouldnt even begin to describe what the fallout would have been. It doesn't take a conspiracy theorist to come up with almost unthinkable images of what this country would look like with banks failing and credit disappearing and insurance companies (like AIG) failing. Are you prepared to stand in line to buy food because your supermarket can't stock it's shelves any more? Think about it how wide ranging the fallout would be. Everything -- EVERYTHING -- in this country is debt financed. It's not preferrable but it's reality. We simply could not have weathered the storm without doing anything.

 

Government's responsibility is to protect the people. By acting, I think that we are now "lucky enough" to be forced to suffer through a bad recession or depression with unemployment rates skyrocketing. If the government did nothing, we will never know what would have happened, but your arguments are aided tremendously by this. It bears repeating that even a Republican administration knew that it had no choice and acted. Hank Paulson is Goldman Sachs-bred. Do you think he was raised on corporate welfare ideology? There was no choice here. It had to be done.

 

 

The bold is what is the problem with America. My point is we cant keep living on debt. Its not the way an economy can continue to function. My point is that what you say will happen regardless. Deal with it now or make it alot worse by spending more money. I am prepared to deal with anything that the depression brings because its the way it has to be to get better. We need this massive correction to happen. Why keep propping up this fake economy based on bad business models? We're trying to fix something with old fashioned thinking that got us into this situation.

 

America is like someone that just maxed out their credit limit on their card. The foreigners are the lenders and we are asking them for an increase on credit limit. This has been going on for along time now and things arent changing except the credit we ask for keeps getting bigger. What happens when the lenders cut us off? It will happen. Then we print ourselves into massive inflation and destroy the dollar. Thats alot worse than what can happen in a bad recession.

 

Not about doing nothing, but doing the right thing. Save and produce is the solution. Spending and consuming is the problem.