dondoboy Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 If you want to see some truly terrified faces, come and hang out here in Detroit. The line workers, the engineers, the secretaries, everyone is scared. Not only that, but the service industry people are just as worried. Everyone is walking on eggshells. There's also the fact that if these companies go bankrupt you can forget about Detroit ever becoming a vibrant city. It'll make the 1980s look like Disneyland. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I'm not surprised at any of this. The level of waste and idiocy in the operations of these companies (specifically procurement) is mind-boggling. I've only seen a snippet of it, so I can't even imagine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted November 11, 2008 Author Share Posted November 11, 2008 If you want to see some truly terrified faces, come and hang out here in Detroit. The line workers, the engineers, the secretaries, everyone is scared. Not only that, but the service industry people are just as worried. Everyone is walking on eggshells. There's also the fact that if these companies go bankrupt you can forget about Detroit ever becoming a vibrant city. It'll make the 1980s look like Disneyland. They have great reason to be. Even with blank check bailouts, there is gonna be huge layoffs and consolidating. There is a fate of Detriot that is no stopping now. There is always hope that we can rebuild. It must first fall so we can rebuild. GM stocks below $3, lowest since the early years of going public. So... we invest $50billion+ in companies not worth a fraction of that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dondoboy Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 They have great reason to be. Even with blank check bailouts, there is gonna be huge layoffs and consolidating. There is a fate of Detriot that is no stopping now. There is always hope that we can rebuild. It must first fall so we can rebuild. GM stocks below $3, lowest since the early years of going public. So... we invest $50billion+ in companies not worth a fraction of that?I'm certainly not saying the investment is wise, in fact, the numbers are so enormous I can't really wrap my head around them. I do have a fondness for this city and its terrible to watch all of its people (and those in Dearborn, Livonia, Hamtramck etc), even the ones who don't work for the 3, scared beyond recognition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
austrya Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 If the big 3 go under, all of SE Michigan is going to be in trouble. I'm just thankful that Jay works somewhere that is pretty recession proof. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dondoboy Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 If the big 3 go under, all of SE Michigan is going to be in trouble. I'm just thankful that Jay works somewhere that is pretty recession proof.Its gonna be "Thunderdome" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 If the damage is limited to SE Michigan, we will be lucky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
c.lo Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 This affects us here in Canada too.My husband "works" for Chrysler, has been laid off (yes, still making 85% of his salary) since March. It has been like this on & off for 10 years. He does not expect to be called back this time.We live outside a city (Oshawa) who is primarily employed by GM (either directly, or indirectly- feeder plants). If GM closes in Oshawa, it will be a ghost town. I have a relative who sells pooltables in Oshawa, she will probably lose her business...the trickle down effect is very scary indeed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 If it comforts people out there, I do think there is help coming to the auto industry. As much as I am against it, it most likely will happen. Given the track record and what has been said, it seems very likely. It seems likely that the government helping more industries in trouble. We are still reacting to fear instead of sound thought and principles. I dont think it will take too long when the people of America realize the mistakes we made and are making when things really fall apart much worse than now. We are on a fast track to socialism. Maybe a revolution will occur in our future to recover our freedoms. I know I will be up for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
remphish1 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Jack White said it best! "The Big 3 killed my baby, no money in my hands again" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 American Express is now asking for a handout Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 Here is the application for the bailout. I'm asking for 3 billion personally.http://www.taxpayer.net/user_uploads/file/...application.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CrushOfVeils80 Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 killed my baby Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted November 12, 2008 Author Share Posted November 12, 2008 $700billion bailout not yet for car industry. Sorry, gotta wait. GM may have to go into bankruptcy given current timeline. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 We are on a fast track to socialism. Maybe a revolution will occur in our future to recover our freedoms. I know I will be up for it.If someone shows up at your door asking you politely to report the next day for re-education, DO NOT GO! WOLVERINES! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted November 12, 2008 Share Posted November 12, 2008 I didn't read this thread, so maybe this has been discussed, but it's my opinion that if GM had not killed the EV1 they'd probably be posting record profits right now. I wouldn't give them one cent without a laundry list of conditions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 I wouldn't give them one cent without a laundry list of conditions. I agree with this totally. Looks like the best solution can be bankruptcy so GM can break away from Union contracts and relook at everything. I think we are going to see a whole new US auto industry which is what is needed. Happy that the 700 biliion bailout will not be used for autos but mad at the fact they are changing the rules and unclear about what the overall plan is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmyjimmy Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 I didn't read this thread, so maybe this has been discussed, but it's my opinion that if GM had not killed the EV1 they'd probably be posting record profits right now. Quoted for truth.If not record profits at least potentially in much better shape. The Volt is a perfect example of why GM is in the predicament it's in. A flawed platform intentionally executed to maximize profit on outdated inefficient technology.GM, unlike small boutique exotic manufacturers who lack production infrastructure, has the know how and the ability to bring a totally consumer friendly and affordable electric car to market. It'll take a major shift in the direction of their product line to bring customers back. Maybe that'll happen and prove to be the potential silver lining in this crisis. One can only hope. The issue over the fate of the Big 3 US auto makers is the most conflicting story currently dominating the newscycle for me. And while it is certainly true that the cost of manufacturing a product in the US is more costly than it is overseas it is also true that if you bring a well built innovative design to market that exploits consumer trends (I.E. energy consciousness/consumption ) it can prove pretty successful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Looks like the best solution can be bankruptcy so GM can break away from Union contracts and relook at everything.Well, the federal government doesn't insure private-sector health benefits, so if they file Chapter 11 a lot of people would lose benefits. We need universal health care. But in the meantime we'll need some sort of bailout. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
explodo Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Well, the federal government doesn't insure private-sector health benefits, so if they file Chapter 11 a lot of people would lose benefits. We need universal health care. But in the meantime we'll need some sort of bailout.Or just do a smaller-scale "bailout" of the employee's health benefits while letting the company go bankrupt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 Well, the federal government doesn't insure private-sector health benefits, so if they file Chapter 11 a lot of people would lose benefits. We need universal health care. But in the meantime we'll need some sort of bailout. Benefits is one of the problems. People need to lose them. The company they worked for and depended on failed them. Thats the consequense. They shouldnt get bailed out by taxpayer money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 "Let them eat egg foo young." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Benefits is one of the problems. People need to lose them. The company they worked for and depended on failed them. Thats the consequense. They shouldnt get bailed out by taxpayer money.I am assuming you don't work for an auto company. Let me know when you're willing to give up your health insurance for the greater good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted November 13, 2008 Author Share Posted November 13, 2008 I am assuming you don't work for an auto company. Let me know when you're willing to give up your health insurance for the greater good. right now Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted November 13, 2008 Share Posted November 13, 2008 Benefits is one of the problems. People need to lose them. The company they worked for and depended on failed them. Thats the consequense. They shouldnt get bailed out by taxpayer money.Do you feel health care is a privelege, right, or responsibility? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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