Leno / Conan / NBC / etc.

[Sir Stewart]

Conan summed up his feelings perfectly during his monologue last night: "When I was a little boy, I remember watching The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson and thinking 'someday, I'm going to host that show...for seven months.'"

[u2roolz]

I'm thinking out loud here, but I'm going to say some of what my friend and I talked about last night.

 

Is the idea of Conan having the Tonight Show better than the actuality of what we've seen since June 1st?

Meaning maybe in his head he thinks that he's both right and wrong for the job. It's the concept of it that he loves, yet he can't pull off the execution.

I personally think that he has too much of a personality to be doing the Tonight Show.

Really. Think about if Dave took over in 1993, I think we'd have the same problem that we're having now. Dave & Conan's sensibilities don't seem to match up to The Tonight Show with what they've done to establish themselves. Being host of the Tonight Show seems to me like that room in Superman's Ice Palace (? can't think of it). It strips away your powers and makes you weak.

 

I've seen the Conanized Tonight Show and it feels like he's either A) scared of NBC watching him and making sure he doesn't get too edgy (Masturbating Bear..although I think they did bring him out), B his demographic is completely vague to him (does he really have the Leno viewership plus his fellow following and who exactly are they and how many are there?).

 

I think NBC should have really left it all alone. Everyone acted "great" in their own environment and now that you took them out of their respective "fish tank" they're dying. If Dave took over the Tonight Show in 1993 and Leno took a job with CBS, who do you think would've beaten who? I still say Leno's "mass appeal" would have beaten Dave's nuanced comedy. Unless if Leno has been stripped bare of his own comedy identity through the Tonight Show.

 

I don't remember Carson, but from what I've been told/seen clips of he felt right at home.

[MattZ]

Conan summed up his feelings perfectly during his monologue last night: "When I was a little boy, I remember watching The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson and thinking 'someday, I'm going to host that show...for seven months.'"

 

Nice try Mr. Funny/Predictable.

[Guest Speed Racer]

Is the idea of Conan having the Tonight Show better than the actuality of what we've seen since June 1st?

Meaning maybe in his head he thinks that he's both right and wrong for the job. It's the concept of it that he loves, yet he can't pull off the execution.

 

See, I think that has more to do with your perception than his perception. Of what I've seen, it's pretty much the same as I remember any late night show being, and certainly not all that different from what Conan's other show used to be.

 

I think NBC should have really left it all alone.

 

Jay said he wanted to retire, which is what set this ball in motion. NBC didn't do anything until Jay said so.

[u2roolz]

See, I think that has more to do with your perception than his perception. Of what I've seen, it's pretty much the same as I remember any late night show being, and certainly not all that different from what Conan's other show used to be.

 

Jay said he wanted to retire, which is what set this ball in motion. NBC didn't do anything until Jay said so.

 

I don't know something's missing to me. And I still feel like his guests are somewhat lackluster with the earlier timeslot.

 

If we didn't know Conan since 1993, would we like/love him as the host of The Tonight Show?

Would we think that "man, this guy would be great if he had free rein to do crazy things"?

Or would some people say "Eh, he's ok..you know i like his bits...but he's good enough" ?

 

Like take Jimmy Fallon: his show at 1st seemed like "oh God, how long until they put him out of his misery?"

Then he found his footing. It was quite brilliant in retrospect that his 1st guest was Robert DeNiro, a man who hates to go on talk shows. LOL

 

I guess it does seem like America has the choice of Letterman or Letterman's "protege" at 11:35. And that doesn't sit well with too many people. Not with me, I'll usually watch live whoever has the better guest and DVR the other.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I'm not sure I see how conan is getting screwed.

 

Here's another way to look at it:

 

Leno was partner at a firm where Conan was an associate. Leno retired and Conan was promoted to partner, for which he is now expected to vastly expand his client base. Thing is, Leno is retained as a consultant and still meets daily with all of his old clients and some of Conan's, too, before Conan gets to the office. Shockingly, Conan is not only having trouble getting new clients but also trouble retaining some of his clients. Leno, who is now starting to dislike retirement for various reasons, wants to move back into his corner office; his former colleagues, who just love the darned guy, have no problems moving Conan back to a cubicle and taking away his administrative assistant, where he will still be expected to schmooze and retain clients.

 

The kind of people who looked at NBC's proposed schedule and thought it was a good idea are the kind people who invest in Ponzi schemes.

[Sir Stewart]

moving Conan back to a cubicle and taking away his administrative assistant

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

People that are writing off Conan as a poor fit for the Tonight Show anyway are being incredibly unfair. Seven months is not near enough time to adjust to a new show/set/audience/time. Of course it takes time for him to figure out what works at that time, and what doesn't, but the episodes of his show I've watched are hilarious.

 

He's a funny guy that will be on late night tv for a good long time. And NBC has truly screwed themselves if he walks away.

[Rusty Shackleford]

People that are writing off Conan as a poor fit for the Tonight Show anyway are being incredibly unfair. Seven months is not near enough time to adjust to a new show/set/audience/time. Of course it takes time for him to figure out what works at that time, and what doesn't, but the episodes of his show I've watched are hilarious.

 

He's a funny guy that will be on late night tv for a good long time. And NBC has truly screwed themselves if he walks away.

 

This. Leno got time to settle in, and Conan should get the same. NBC needs to figure out which guy they want and let the other one go. They're being spineless here.

[ih8music]

 

 

(yeah, it's been done a dozen times before, but this one is quite funny)

[bobbob1313]

Here's another way to look at it:

 

Leno was partner at a firm where Conan was an associate. Leno retired and Conan was promoted to partner, for which he is now expected to vastly expand his client base. Thing is, Leno is retained as a consultant and still meets daily with all of his old clients and some of Conan's, too, before Conan gets to the office. Shockingly, Conan is not only having trouble getting new clients but also trouble retaining some of his clients. Leno, who is now starting to dislike retirement for various reasons, wants to move back into his corner office; his former colleagues, who just love the darned guy, have no problems moving Conan back to a cubicle and taking away his administrative assistant, where he will still be expected to schmooze and retain clients.

 

The kind of people who looked at NBC's proposed schedule and thought it was a good idea are the kind people who invest in Ponzi schemes.

 

This analogy doesn't work at all.

 

I probably shouldn't engage you on this bobbob, but of course, I will, and maybe the simple answer here is that Conan just wants to do the Tonight Show on NBC? And he was promised it, and signed a contract to do it? Sure, NBC can cancel the contract, and he will still get paid, but maybe this isn't about money for him? Maybe that's how Conan is getting screwed?

 

Of course, NBC can do whatever they want, and all's fair in TV-land, but I think most impartial observers would say that Conan didn't get a fair shot -- even if his show was doing poorly. And of course, if NBC pays him, they aren't really violating the contract. But I don't think that means Conan isn't getting screwed. Is that really your position?

 

Matt's explanation is much better, though I could do without the stupid "I shouldn't engage you on this" qualifier, but whatever. I can understand this, but I still don't think he's really being screwed. 30 minutes is the difference between the job of your dreams and being screwed? I dunno, I don't really see that. He can still do the Tonight Show at 12:05. Yeah, it's not the same, and I understand him not wanting to do it, but I don't see why it equals him getting screwed.

 

And yeah, maybe he just wants to do the Tonight Show, I understand that. But it's not like Leno is forcing the move. Yes, Leno could just say "Have your spot, Conan", but is that really what most people would do? It's a shitty situation for both, and neither wants to budge.

 

I just don't get why Leno is getting shit on here, I guess, other than that people don't like him and they do like Conan.

[GtrPlyr]

 

 

(yeah, it's been done a dozen times before, but this one is quite funny)

That was one of the funnier uses of that clip I've seen .

[Guest Speed Racer]

This analogy doesn't work at all.

 

You disagree that Leno's show airs before Conan's?

 

I just don't get why Leno is getting shit on here, I guess, other than that people don't like him and they do like Conan.

 

My beef with him is that he said he would retire, he didn't, he still could if he really, truly wanted this mess to go away, and now his career preferences are superceding those of someone who's really trying to make something work.

[Dude]

Matt's explanation is much better, though I could do without the stupid "I shouldn't engage you on this" qualifier, but whatever. I can understand this, but I still don't think he's really being screwed. 30 minutes is the difference between the job of your dreams and being screwed? I dunno, I don't really see that. He can still do the Tonight Show at 12:05. Yeah, it's not the same, and I understand him not wanting to do it, but I don't see why it equals him getting screwed.

 

It nudges him that much closer to Carson Daly. Being pushed later is the equivalent of getting branded a loser in the late night talk show world world. Think of how much of a tool Carson is, and you'll understand why Conan doesn't want any part of that.

[MattZ]

Matt's explanation is much better, though I could do without the stupid "I shouldn't engage you on this" qualifier, but whatever.

 

in fairness, what I meant is that I don't really care enough about any of this to get dragged into a back and forth with you (or anyone else) about it. And here I am dragged into one. I was poking at myself, not you. Sorry, twobobs.

[bobbob1313]

You disagree that Leno's show airs before Conan's?

 

Ok.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

Pushing the show back half an hour is a huge insult, as Dude said. Obviously it's a small amount of time, but it's not about that. Not to mention the fact that it's no longer the Tonight Show. Even if it retains the name, as the second late night talk show, it really isn't the Tonight Show at all. Which is why Conan is getting screwed, and still hasn't had a fair shot at hosting it. And he won't get that shot unless Leno leaves altogether, and Conan gets to host at 11:35.

[u2roolz]

It nudges him that much closer to Carson Daly. Being pushed later is the equivalent of getting branded a loser in the late night talk show world world. Think of how much of a tool Carson is, and you'll understand why Conan doesn't want any part of that.

 

Carson Daly's show isn't that bad now, since he changed the format. No more painful monolog.

He has on a lot of cool guests that you wouldn't see on the earlier late night shows. And he visits them at a neutral venue or at their house etc.

Plus, the majority of his live acts are filmed performances from Los Angeles venues.

[stagerug]

This. Leno got time to settle in, and Conan should get the same. NBC needs to figure out which guy they want and let the other one go. They're being spineless here.

 

I'm not sure how long it was after Jay took over for Johnny that the tides turned for Jay. It took awhile. Pretty sure it was longer than 7 months.

 

Many of you may remember that Jay was getting creamed by Letterman in the ratings for a long time. The network was getting ansy. Then the day after Hugh Grant was caught with that hooker he came on The Tonight Show because he was previously booked. That shot Jay up to #1 and he never looked back. Not saying that Conan needs to be the first to book TIger or anything, but that these things take time. The almighty Jay Leno was once not so, well,... almighty. Takes time to be the king.

[Dude]

Carson Daly's show isn't that bad now, since he changed the format. No more painful monolog.

He has on a lot of cool guests that you wouldn't see on the earlier late night shows. And he visits them at a neutral venue or at their house etc.

Plus, the majority of his live acts are filmed performances from Los Angeles venues.

 

Carson could have the greatest formatted, most improved talk show on the planet, and I'd still probably think the guy's a tool. He just has to open his mouth, basically.

[Guest Speed Racer]

He just has to open his snot-nosed, whiney, emaciated, has-been who was briefly cool amongst the tween set in the '90s mouth, basically.

 

Fixed.

[u2roolz]

Well, I also discussed this with friends of mine.

 

Would you like to see Jon Stewart take over the Late Show for Letterman?

Isn't he kind of perfect on the Daily Show?

Why fuck it up?

Same goes with Stephen Colbert.

 

On paper it sounds good, but when you think about it not so much.

 

How would his audience react to the switch?

 

I'm really trying to find Jimmy Fallon ratings and demo info, but I can't find it. I'm thinking that he's creating his own set of viewers as Conan did in the 90s.

I really think it all comes down to the fans of The Tonight Show, Jay Leno, Conan O'Brien, and Late Night. Some fans may view these 4 things as separate entities altogether.

 

That's what perplexes me the most. Where the hell did Conan's viewers go? And how many were there in his old time slot?

As I said before, Conan has a tough time trying to balance what worked for him before and trying to see what will work for him with the Tonight Show viewers.

[Sir Stewart]

Where the hell did Conan's viewers go?

 

I don't think they went anywhere. I'm guessing his share is at least the same as it was at 12:30.

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

It's possible that Conan fans are also Letterman fans. The overlap complicates things.

 

As far as Fallon, I've only watched him to see the Roots, for whatever that's worth.

 

And Jon Stewart won't leave his show for a regular talk show. Him and the Daily Show are too perfect. I think NBC would even have a hard time fucking that one up.

[u2roolz]

I don't think they went anywhere. I'm guessing his share is at least the same as it was at 12:30.

 

So then you can argue that the Tonight Show viewers jumped ship to Letterman.

I think the demographic that isn't sticking is the older viewers who I've heard say "Conan isn't that funny. I can't stand him."

Much like they used to say about Dave and now they are watching Dave?!

AND they're not there to watch Jay's show either.