KevinG Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I've generally defended Bud over the years, but he said some real stupid shit today. I am surprised no one brought that up. I would have but I am anti that kind of talk. Though I will say worst idea ever. Link to post Share on other sites
dagwave Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Bud's a stooge! Or maybe just a self-confessed baseball geek, like the rest of us. anyhoo, it looks like my sweet collection of Arod memorobilia is now in line with the rest of my more traditional kids college/ retirement investments.... i shouldn't be surprised, but maybe i need to adjust my idealism/ cynicism balance... after all it's a game of adjustments. that being said, pitchers and catchers report this weekend, and hope springs eternal for a Phightin phillies repeat!!!!! I like San Fran, especially that young pitcher they got. Though I feel he will have his sophomore slump as it were. Does anyone think that Manny won't end up with the Dodgers for the next year? i"m waiting for Lincecum to get hurt. I love the kid, but his mechanics defy the laws of physics. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 The Selig comments were over-the-top and yeah, stupid (for the most part). Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Alex Rodriguez will have to live with the shame of knowing he juiced, but evidently not a suspension. A day after baseball Commissioner Bud Selig suggested in a published report he hadn't ruled out disciplining Rodriguez after A-Rod's admitted use of performance enhancers, Selig backpedaled yesterday. But a person familiar with Selig's thinking said it was a long shot the commissioner gave serious consideration to pursuing such action, given the resistance he would have faced from the Players Association. One prominent agent said yesterday that MLB would have exposed itself to numerous lawsuits - leaving a lingering focus on a steroid issue Selig just wants to disappear - if a decision was reached to punish Rodriguez. (New York Post) Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 i"m waiting for Lincecum to get hurt. I love the kid, but his mechanics defy the laws of physics. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...0707/index.html Really good read on why and how his mechanics may actually be some of the most efficient amongst any player today. And I was saying last night that if Bud had suspended A-Rod, I wouldn't have been surprised if we had a strike the next time the CBA has to be reworked, because the Player's Association would have been so ridiculously pissed. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 And I was saying last night that if Bud had suspended A-Rod, I wouldn't have been surprised if we had a strike the next time the CBA has to be reworked, because the Player's Association would have been so ridiculously pissed.What's the correct formula/ratio on Bud's salary vs reluctance to take a strong stand on steroid usage? Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Discussion around Varitek/Wakefield surfaced a few weeks back. francona now saying that Josh Bard is "pencilled in" as Wake's catcher:http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/re...foresee_issues/ However, will Wakefield even make it to the rotation? Masterson said to be among the starters (in Spring Training).... Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 What's the correct formula/ratio on Bud's salary vs reluctance to take a strong stand on steroid usage?Pretty direct correlation, since steroids have been, at least in the short term, good for the game's bottom line. And labor disputes are bad--potentially very bad for the bottom line. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Discussion around Varitek/Wakefield surfaced a few weeks back. francona now saying that Josh Bard is "pencilled in" as Wake's catcher:http://bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/re...foresee_issues/ However, will Wakefield even make it to the rotation? Masterson said to be among the starters (in Spring Training).... Is Justin Masterson really someone you want in your rotation? He was pretty mediocre every step of the way in the minors, and there's not a chance in hell he maintains an era below 4 with the k/bb ratio he has. And ESPN is going to call him "One of the most promising young pitchers in baseball" in about 14 minutes. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writ...0707/index.html Really good read on why and how his mechanics may actually be some of the most efficient amongst any player today. Correct me if I am wrong didn't they say (Tom House) that Mark Prior had some of the best mechanics in the game? Yeah not so much. I think he throwing with a towel this week. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Is Justin Masterson really someone you want in your rotation? He was pretty mediocre every step of the way in the minors, and there's not a chance in hell he maintains an era below 4 with the k/bb ratio he has.Not going on his past. I think the mentality here is to have him get some work in Spring Training in order fill gaps throughout the season if he's needed to (in the starter's role) throughout the season. Unless he is pitching at a level that warrants a reg. season top 5 starter spot, I don't see him in the rotation. I didn't mean to make a seeming corrolation between Wakefield and Masterson. Two separate issues there. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Prior's mechanics weren't the problem, it was overuse at an early age. That's my concern with lincecum. Not his throwing motion, but the amount of pitches he has thrown over the last two years. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Oh yeah. Miami city commisioners decide the fate of the marlins ballpark project today. I really hope it passes... Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Prior's mechanics weren't the problem, it was overuse at an early age. That's my concern with lincecum. Not his throwing motion, but the amount of pitches he has thrown over the last two years. Lincecum reminds me a lot of Prior. Let's hope the don't make the same mistakes. I found this when I was look up info on Prior, kinda interesting. Mark Prior's Pitching Mechanics Don't know if this has anything to do with Lincecum, but thought it was interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Watch lincecum throw and watch prior throw. Watch their legs. This is the difference. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Watch lincecum throw and watch prior throw. Watch their legs. This is the difference. I am amazed that this is something in your head - the difference in stance between these two pitchers, neither of whom are on the team you root for. I am not calling you out - just freaking amazed. I consider myself a baseball scholar if I can recall whether a Boston starter is righty or lefty. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Watch lincecum throw and watch prior throw. Watch their legs. This is the difference. I am not saying they throw alike, but they seem be similar in the way the are treated and seen by the fans and media, etc. Prior was the golden boy and was Chicago's hope to win a championship. The organization leaned on him so hard that he broke down. I can see that happening to Lincecum in San Fran. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I know that someone here has the numbers handy (and I'd ask that they post them here), but every time Mark Prior comes up everyone just acknowledges that he was overused. The guy pitched over 200 innings once. Once. What am I missing? It has to be something. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Oh, sure. I think sf leans on him too much and might blow out his arm, but it won't be because his mechanics are bad. Like that story says, he's a freak. He's so athletic and agile that he can throw like that without his arm blowing out because he gets so much force from his legs. Tom Seaver would be proud. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I know that someone here has the numbers handy (and I'd ask that they post them here), but every time Mark Prior comes up everyone just acknowledges that he was overused. The guy pitched over 200 innings once. Once. What am I missing? It has to be something. He pitched 210 innings over 30 starts without really building up to that work load. He had a massive jump in innings pitched and between the regular and postseason in 03, he pitched like 240 innings and had a couple of 130+ pitch games. Those high pitch games, more than anything, killed his career. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 between the regular and postseason in 03, he pitched like 240 innings and had a couple of 130+ pitch games. Those high pitch games, more than anything, killed his career. I am sure you are right. But let's face it. It's not like he pitched 240 IP over 3 straight years. One year of overuse and that's it? Seems a bit overkill to me. Maybe the guy would have still broken down. Anyway, sorry to derail. I just find it interesting that "overuse" and "Dusty Baker" are always just accepted as the culprits. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Baseball Prospectus came up with a stat to detail pitcher abuse called pitcher abuse points. Basically, they realized that the most stress is put on a pitcher after 100+ pitches, and that it rises exponentially with the more pitches thrown. So 100 pitches is pretty safe, but 140 pitches is absurdly dangerous to the future of a pitcher. Lincecum lead the league last year over 230 innings:174543Prior in 210 innings: 220295 And prior averaged 113 pitches per start. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 ... I just find it interesting that "overuse" and "Dusty Baker" are always just accepted as the culprits. Apparently you don't root for the Cubs, since 2005 Dusty Baker and overuse have been the the reason for everything that has been wrong with the cubs. Link to post Share on other sites
MattZ Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Apparently you don't root for the Cubs, since 2005 Dusty Baker and overuse have been the the reason for everything that has been wrong with the cubs. No, I know this. I was just questioning it in this specific case. It's an accepted explanation but seemed dubious based on the evidence I saw. Bobbob - thanks for that stat. Interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Also, with young pitchers, the jump in innings from year to year needs to be taken into account. A yearly jump of 40 is generally considered safe, building up to 200+. He threw 166 in 2002 and 234 in 03. A pretty unsafe jump, especially with how many pitches he threw in high stress situations. Also: "In the month of September, Prior recorded 126 pitches per starts. Prior averaged another 120 pitches games in the Postseason." All that during a season when he was on the disabled list. And that link Kevin posted about his mechanics is just scary. The way his leg comes down so abruptly so early in his motion, landing violently on his heel and then whipping his arm around, I'm surprised nobody ever fixed it. I know you don't want to mess with what is working, but this was pretty obvious if you watched the details. He throws with all arm, no leg. Link to post Share on other sites
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