dondoboy Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Turns Out Craig Counsell Was Actually Best Baseball Player Of Steroid Era NEW YORK Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 How do we know Counsell wasn't juicing? Link to post Share on other sites
dondoboy Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 How do we know Counsell wasn't juicing?I think they just picked anybody to pick on whose numbers were not the greatest. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I know, I get what they were getting at, I'm just saying, for all we know anyone could have been juicing. A lot of proven juicers weren't that good. It's a misconception that all the juicers were big homerun hitters. Link to post Share on other sites
dondoboy Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 I know, I get what they were getting at, I'm just saying, for all we know anyone could have been juicing. A lot of proven juicers weren't that good. It's a misconception that all the juicers were big homerun hitters.Yeah, I thought about that too. What about base steals? Has anyone researched big spikes in stolen bases from one year to the next? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Nope, the only steroid users were arrogant, egotistical home run hitters. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Yeah, I thought about that too. What about base steals? Has anyone researched big spikes in stolen bases from one year to the next? The first guy suspended for 'roid use was Alex Sanchez, who was using to become faster. I don't know of any studies on stolen bases. It would be tough to quantify anyway though, because, though steroids could have increased leg strength to make guys better stealers, they could also have improved the catcher's arm strength to make it easier for him to throw a guy out, as well as the pitcher's arm strength, so the ball was getting to home faster, giving the catcher another split second to throw the runner out. There are so many different factors that I don't even know what a study would look for. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hollinger. Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 For anyone that cares about this kinda thing, I went to Borders this evening to pick up the new Baseball Prospectus, and they had the Baseball American Prospect Handbook shelved 2 weeks early. Dunno if it was a mistake or it shipped early, but you might wanna check your local store. I was excited. Link to post Share on other sites
dondoboy Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 The first guy suspended for 'roid use was Alex Sanchez, who was using to become faster. I don't know of any studies on stolen bases. It would be tough to quantify anyway though, because, though steroids could have increased leg strength to make guys better stealers, they could also have improved the catcher's arm strength to make it easier for him to throw a guy out, as well as the pitcher's arm strength, so the ball was getting to home faster, giving the catcher another split second to throw the runner out. There are so many different factors that I don't even know what a study would look for.Every time I try to think about it in a reasonable way I remember that its just a huge, interwoven mess. He got faster this year, yet this guy threw faster. Ugh. I went looking for some good old fashioned baseball fun in Sporting News and they predict the Tigers to be last in the Central. I can't win here. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 For anyone that cares about this kinda thing, I went to Borders this evening to pick up the new Baseball Prospectus, and they had the Baseball American Prospect Handbook shelved 2 weeks early. Dunno if it was a mistake or it shipped early, but you might wanna check your local store. I was excited. I always consider picking the prospect handbook, but I never do. Maybe if I have some extra cash around sometime soon. Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 You don't mean Pudge, do you? That might break my heart.*taps nose* Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 You don't mean Pudge, do you? That might break my heart.Many people have suspected Pudge for a long time. Big size drop, big power drop, Rangers player, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Just read this on another board. Haven't tried to substantiate it:KNBR radio in San Francisco is reporting the A's have now pulled out of Fremont completely and the owner admits moving or selling the team is likely. The owner says Portland, Sacremento and Vegas are possible but also admits the owner of the Montreal Canadiens is interested in bringing baseball back to Quebec Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Just read this on another board. Haven't tried to substantiate it: Yeah, the Fremont deal appears to have fallen through. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Pudge has been all but confirmed as a juicer for a long time. On top of the circumstancial stuff Jorge mentioned, he was also named in the first Canseco book. I would be pretty shocked if he wasn't a juicer. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yeah, Canseco is just about the only guy to trust when it comes to 'roids. I'm just waiting for Magglio and Pudge to be named. Link to post Share on other sites
dondoboy Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Yeah, Canseco is just about the only guy to trust when it comes to 'roids. I'm just waiting for Magglio and Pudge to be named.Here's the worst part. Everyone (well, everyone I know or love) already thought A-Rod wad an A-Hole, but there's a certain girl who lives in my house who, when told both Pudge and Mags were juicin', is going to forbid baseball in said house. Which means I'll have to go to the bar to watch, which means I become a drunk and probably lose the girl. Link to post Share on other sites
Oil Can Boyd Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Griffey back to Seattle Ken Griffey Jr. is returning to Seattle. The future Hall of Famer informed the Atlanta Braves on Wednesday that he's returning to the city where he carved out a Hall of Fame career as a perennial All-Star in the 1990s. Two baseball sources said that Griffey made his decision after two days of debating between Atlanta, which is close to his home in Orlando, Fla., and Seattle, where he's been a fan favorite since breaking in with the Mariners as a 19-year-old phenom in 1989. The contract is for one year and is believed to be worth $2 million in base salary, plus incentives, The Associated Press reported. As of late last week, it appeared a virtual certainty that Griffey would return to Seattle. But Griffey reached out to the Braves and received a warm reception from manager Bobby Cox and third baseman Chipper Jones, among others. The Braves were hoping to sign Griffey as a platoon partner for Matt Diaz in left field, and Griffey appeared energized by the prospect of playing so close to home and spending spring training in Orlando. But the Griffey-to-Atlanta momentum hit the skids Tuesday afternoon, when the sentimental lure of Seattle apparently began to tug at him. One person close to Griffey said he had an "agonizing'' 24 hours trying to decide between the Braves and Mariners. Griffey is extremely close to Mariners president Chuck Armstrong and chairman Howard Lincoln from his previous tenure with Seattle from 1989 through 2000. He made the All-Star team and won a Gold Glove with the Mariners every year during the 1990s, and received a hero's welcome when he returned to the city with the Cincinnati Reds in 2007. It's believed that the Mariners would like to continue their association with Griffey in some fashion when he retires -- although it's uncertain in what role. Griffey is likely to spend time in left field in Seattle, where Endy Chavez is currently the starter, and could also be a DH for new manager Don Wakamatsu. He turned 39 in November, and underwent arthroscopic surgery on his left knee in the offseason. Jerry Crasnick covers baseball for ESPN.com. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 That's the third time a FA has spurned the Braves at the last minute. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 The evidence for Maggs juicing isn't as strong as for Pudge, but at this point no one would surprise me. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 The evidence for Maggs juicing isn't as strong as for Pudge, but at this point no one would surprise me. You're just defending him because he's a Tiger. Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Not really. I was on the Pudge-is-a-juicer schtick when he was still a Tiger. There isn't as much evidence for Maggs though. Again, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he did steroids, there just isn't as much evidence as there is for a lot of other guys. Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess I should change my avatar. Link to post Share on other sites
Moss Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I guess I should change my avatar. Unless you want to look "old school". Link to post Share on other sites
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