sonicshoulder Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I think a lot of folks were taken aback after a run of records full of troubled, twisted, haunting, hopeful, poetic lyrics and imagery and then hearing straightforward, less cryptic lines like "Maybe you still love me, maybe you don't, either you will or you won't," "I do the dishes, I mow the lawn" and "I'm walkin' all by myself." Not to say that "I'm a Wheel" has any real deep meaning -- to me, it's just a great thrasher with some nonsense lyrics.You can work your way thru any Wilco album and find lyrics that aren't as good as others. Not mature is just a bit ridiculous. Soundgarden's "Big Dumb Sex" has immature lyrics, not Either Way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ghost of Electricity Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 mature sonwriting=dad rock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 It's an aural journey through songcraft.I love SBS, but I have no idea what this means. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I love SBS, but I have no idea what this means. Yeah...I get that a lot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MonkeyhHanger Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok take a song like 'Please Be Patient With Me'Could the subject matter have been written on any other album pre SBS? This to me shows signs of development as a writer. Taking life experience and gifting us a beautiful song. For you = Kid Rockers listen to Impossible Germany and hear a band that has developed into World class musicians interjecting noise you love so much with real interplay between every Instrument. Dad Rock rules! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The High Heat Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Ok take a song like 'Please Be Patient With Me'Could the subject matter have been written on any other album pre SBS? This to me shows signs of development as a writer. Taking life experience and gifting us a beautiful song. For you = Kid Rockers listen to Impossible Germany and hear a band that has developed into World class musicians interjecting noise you love so much with real interplay between every Instrument. Dad Rock rules!Please Be Patient With Me is reminiscent of Please Tell My Brother. Different adult subject matter done basically the same way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 You've made it more than clear you don't like SBS. I get it. It comes into play almost everytime you comment on the quality of a Wilco album. I understand how opinions work and overall quality is subjective when it comes to music or any other form of art. That being said I don't think maturity of lyrics is quite as subjective. What are some of the specific lyrics on SBS that you would say are immature or is this just another avenue for your favorite Via Chicago past time...SBS bashing. I guess it depends on your definition of "mature songwriting." To me, Sky Blue Sky was a huge step backwards in this department. Not only were the lyrics generally straightforward, but they were also banal, trite, hackneyed, etc. Either Way and the whole second half of the album are the worst offenders (even Impossible Germany). As for musicianship, the approach of guys in a room playing songs has been lauded by those that like Sky Blue Sky. To me, it mostly sounds lazy. The ballads drag and the other songs go in predictable places. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
choo-choo-charlie Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 SBS = working on musical interplay, jammingW(TA) = working out songs, studio capability TWL = both of the above coming together in a most excellent way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 FWIW, at least one other person on here agrees with bleedorange on the SBS analysis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 As for musicianship, the approach of guys in a room playing songs has been lauded by those that like Sky Blue Sky. To me, it mostly sounds lazy. The ballads drag and the other songs go in predictable places. Not wanting to be being argumentative, but just what songs are you referring to here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I guess it depends on your definition of "mature songwriting." To me, Sky Blue Sky was a huge step backwards in this department. Not only were the lyrics generally straightforward, but they were also banal, trite, hackneyed, etc. Either Way and the whole second half of the album are the worst offenders (even Impossible Germany). As for musicianship, the approach of guys in a room playing songs has been lauded by those that like Sky Blue Sky. To me, it mostly sounds lazy. The ballads drag and the other songs go in predictable places. Not sure that this applies here, but apparently Jeff is getting pretty sick and tired of all the complaints. For What it's worth... "I "People claim we're forever dumbing down. I think we've been pretty dumb all along. And defiantly so. It's pop music. We want to make pop music. I love pop music. "And to be honest, the execution of the simpler songs are much more difficult than throwing some sounds together and saying you're subverting a form.It's easier for people to take the p*** out of something they can understand than it is to have a pop at something which might prove embarrassing because they haven't understood it." He adds: ""If someone is coming at a new album really wanting to have the same experience that they had with some other record then that can't be met. "I don't know what we can do to meet those expectations other than ignore them," he concludes, before adding: "I don't think we put out any s***." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Not wanting to be being argumentative, but just what songs are you referring to here? Hate it Here, Shake it Off (although this one drags, too), Either Way, even You Are My Face, which I like. There's nothing on SBS that has them taking full advantage of the personnel in the band. It's just guys playing in the studio, which might sound good to the people playing it but lacks any kind of punch for an outside listener. You can look at the five previous albums and find something sonically adventurous littered throughout each of them, to go along with mesmerizing lyrics from Tweedy that improved from album to album. None of that exists on Sky Blue Sky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Again, bleedorange has it exactly right. Even the live version of Impossible Germany, for me, is just waiting for the inane minimalist lyrics to be over so we can all "enjoy" the mighty Nels wankfest. I almost used it for a piss break in Atlanta.By the way, I have stated multiple times here that I consider Jeff to be one of America's greatest songwriters (or words to that effect). So it was doubly disappointing for me, as a writer, to hear lyrics like "I remember my mother’s sister’s husband’s brother" or "I do the dishes, I mow the lawn" (I write my grocery list, I rub one out...). Compare that to 99% of S/T or YHF, and we shouldn't even have to have this conversation... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smells like flowers Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I read someplace (can't remember where) that SBS was written just after Jeff's mother died. Never saw that fact corroborated anywhere else, but it has always made me think of "this rotten time" in a different way (in the song SBS). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sonicshoulder Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Again, bleedorange has it exactly right. Even the live version of Impossible Germany, for me, is just waiting for the inane minimalist lyrics to be over so we can all "enjoy" the mighty Nels wankfest. I almost used it for a piss break in Atlanta.By the way, I have stated multiple times here that I consider Jeff to be one of America's greatest songwriters (or words to that effect). So it was doubly disappointing for me, as a writer, to hear lyrics like "I remember my mother’s sister’s husband’s brother" or "I do the dishes, I mow the lawn" (I write my grocery list, I rub one out...). Compare that to 99% of S/T or YHF, and we shouldn't even have to have this conversation..."Always bet on black...black jack...I'll pay you back""Dimetapp and Spinal Tap""Oh hey ho...look out below""Playin Kiss covers beautiful and stoned""Hello private callers,ID's blocked" I guess this stuff is all flawless. Nothin inane or minimalist here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Anyone can comb through a band's catalog and pull out the most cheeseball lines to make a point. Find the lines anywhere in SBS that measure up to the staggering beauty of Via Chicago - this board was named after it for a reason - Misunderstood, Sunken Treasure, She's a Jar, I Am Trying to Break Your Heart, or any of a dozen other songs on the other albums... They don't exist. There are a few well-written lines scattered throughout SBS, but as bleedorange has already said, You can look at the five previous albums and find something sonically adventurous littered throughout each of them, to go along with mesmerizing lyrics from Tweedy that improved from album to album. None of that exists on Sky Blue Sky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 It's amazing that there is such a heated discussion over a record that came out FOUR YEARS ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 It's amazing that there is such a heated discussion over a record that came out FOUR YEARS ago. It's easily the most polarizing album in their entire catalog. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sonicshoulder Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I understand individual tastes and respect them. It just amazes me when people dismiss that album as garbage or uninspired. Its not Summerteeth...its not Yankee, its also not bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 It's easily the most polarizing album in their entire catalog. But dude...it's not METAL MACHINE MUSIC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jules Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 It's amazing that there is such a heated discussion over a record that came out FOUR YEARS ago.Since when is here a statute of limitations on debate? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rwilson580 Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 SBS contains a few songs with some straightforward lyrics. So what? Tweedy's proven he can do great word play...seriously, as good as anybody. He's proven he can populate a song with great images. I'm convinced...he's not starting over with me with every song he writes. If he wants to do a song like "Either Way", where his words are straight ahead, and his meaning quite clear...it's ok. It may not be my favorite song, but it doesn't tell me a damned thing about his capabilities. It tells me what songs he felt like writing at that point in time. That's it. So many of the songs on SBS are exquisitely constructed. Freaking Swiss watches. Some of the most sophisticated moments in Wilco's catalogue are found on this album. And organically so. When people claim that this album is simple, or uninspired, I just know they are listening to a different album than I am. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Since when is here a statute of limitations on debate? Certainly not. But the amount of anger and frustration some have for this record seem to be derailing the matter at hand. But, passionate posts certainly add a little spice around here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MonkeyhHanger Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Back to the OP.. Either Way for me sits perfect to unfold a great album in Wilco's catalogue and love it or loathe it stirs emotion in people seemingly more so than the others listed. What's best? who cares they're all great thats why you keep buying and listening.7 posts in and realise why i don't post much on forums.. Good Luck Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Even the live version of Impossible Germany, for me, is just waiting for the inane minimalist lyrics to be over so we can all "enjoy" the mighty Nels wankfest. I almost used it for a piss break in Atlanta. wow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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