Central Scrutinizer Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 The perception of left changes with time too, how left would same-sex marriage have been eight years ago? Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 Good point. America is becoming more accustomed (if not still entrenched) on liberal approaches towards social issues, some how fiscally the country is still full of bed-wetters. Could we have made enough progress that a candidate could say "I believe two people, no matter what gender, who are ready to make a lifelong commitment should be recognized by the state," and some moderate Republican voter would say, "Well a lot of people are saying that, and I'm not sure that's where we need to go as a country." Yet if the same candidate said "Poverty is an institutional force in our nation which is often buoyed by racism and therefore it must be combatted through a systematic effort in part by the government."..... Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 This is totally insane:http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2015/05/02/403865824/texas-governor-deploys-national-guard-to-stave-off-obama-takeover Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 It's embarrassing. This is a great response, though: http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20150430-ex-gop-lawmaker-blisters-abbott-for-pandering-to-idiots-over-military-exercise.ece Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 When nothing comes of this the rhetoric will change to toss accolades at the stout patriots who caught wind of the plot and saved Texas. Couple that with a new Obama failure storyline (for not being able to carry out his nefarious plan to force Texas to join the US) and it's all good. Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 what is it w/ Texas politicians these days? Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Man it seems like everyone is vying for the GOP Presidential nomination. Just recently we had Carly Fiornia, Mike Huckabee, and Dr. Ben Carson jump in the race. I can only assume Ben Carson has the best chance, cause millions of people will vote for him because he African American. So the declared candidates on the GOP side are now Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, Mike Huckabee, Ben Carson, and Carly Fiornia. And the declared candidates on the Democrat side are Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders. And the Iowa caucus is like 9 months away. Can't wait for this disaster to unfold. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 It's all pretty amazing. Actually Ben Carson is polling really shitty despite being African American. When is Rick Santorum going to jump back in? LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Stewart Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Carson talked about voting into office "people with common sense who actually love our nation" - that a GOP candidate can still use that type of language to describe the left is astounding and depressing. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Liberals just don't love this country enough, don't you know that? Being critical of the US of A is just not right. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Liberals just don't love this country enough, don't you know that? Being critical of the US of A is just not right. LouieBI know, buncha commie pinkos. "My country, right or wrong!" And speaking of TX, here's a fun read (NSFW): http://www.stonekettle.com/2015/05/jade-helm-insanity-that-ate-texas.html Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Carson talked about voting into office "people with common sense who actually love our nation" - that a GOP candidate can still use that type of language to describe the left is astounding and depressing. I have heard it from both factions. If you are a member of party x and agree with candidate x, you obviously hate America. Though honestly, it seems that the Right does it with greater frequency and has more prominent names doing so. It is sad really. I may disagree with a party and vehemently oppose everything a candidate / politician stands for, but I have never once questioned their love for their country. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Have you heard that from leaders and candidates for both parties? Or just from talk about town? Seems to me that this is a talking point for one party at the present time...leaders, candidates and followers. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Have you heard that from leaders and candidates for both parties? Or just from talk about town? Seems to me that this is a talking point for one party at the present time...leaders, candidates and followers. Well, Obama did have his Guns and Religion comment back 2008; Joe Biden had his Back in Chains speech back in 2012. They both indirectly infer that the other party is not inline with the values of true Americans. Search the internet for Boehner hates America or Conservatives hate America you will find plenty of left wing media spouting this nonsense. But as for officially announced candidates or credible mouth pieces from the Democratic side I don't really see it as a main talking point. Whereas on the Right it seems to be the bread and butter to call someone's love of country into question when you disagree with them. Link to post Share on other sites
LouieB Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 If any of these guys really loved their country they would stop acting like total dicks. LouieB Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 So, no you don't have any examples of democrat leaders/candidates saying the other guys don't love their country. Just loose inferences. Btw media websites are not the same as leaders saying stuff like that. Fox News or ABC etc count because of their reach, but again I don't see the liberal media calling out Ben Carson and saying he hates his country. I think it's clear who does this and it's a top down process to fire up the base. And by base I am thinking adjective. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 So, no you don't have any examples of democrat leaders/candidates saying the other guys don't love their country. Just loose inferences. Btw media websites are not the same as leaders saying stuff like that. Fox News or ABC etc count because of their reach, but again I don't see the liberal media calling out Ben Carson and saying he hates his country. I think it's clear who does this and it's a top down process to fire up the base. And by base I am thinking adjective. I don't disagree with you. In fact I have said almost exactly what you have just said. Maybe I am having a hard time explaining myself or maybe you are not reading everything I write. The Right does not have a monopoly on calling into question one's patriotism. The Left has done it and will continue to do it. But it is not as systematic, as prevalent, and from such widely known entities as it is on the Right. That is clear, but to point fingers and ignore what has been done by both sides will just perpetuate the problem. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 What so many of these finger pointers don't have the courage, or intelligence, or honesty to say is that their opponents clearly love America. They just have a different vision of it. One might be metropolitanism and the other a cultural theocracy, but they both see evidence for their values reflected in some aspect of America. When we allow ourselves to get apolitical we can just philosophically marvel at Jeff Tweedy, Bob Dylan and Paul Simon's (among others) favorite question: what does America mean? Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 My point is and always has been that some dork like me posting on a message board that Ted Cruz hates America or some insignificant blogger doing the same thing does not carry the same weight as ben Carson, Sarah Palin or Fox News saying the same thing. It seems as though this sort of rhetoric Is far more common coming from the right from their leadership their news station etc... It is almost, if not completely non-existent coming from the leadership on the left. McCain almost had me at one point during his campaign when people were shouting out their weird bs comments at a rally when he stopped and was almost exasperated and talked about Obama being a decent man who loves his country etc... Probably the most honest campaign moment I can remmber since Bobby Kennedy on the night MLK was murdered. But the moment passed when that horrible woman he chose as a running mate was highlighted in the next news segment. Link to post Share on other sites
John Smith Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Sorry for droning on about this. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 No need to apologize. I hear you and agree. The manipulation of the concept of patriotism, and the idea that an ideology has a monopoly on it is one of the more corrosive fallacies in our political discussions as a country. It's interesting stuff. I agree with what the folks said above about there being examples of this on both sides, but I also agree with you that it's a more common attack from folks on the right. That McCain moment was sharp. You could see in his eyes- it was when he realized he'd lost it. He was courting lunatics. The republican majority was falling victim to willful ignorance. I think the intellectual right is still trying to navigate that without being elitist or losing their demographic traction. Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I don't see the virtue in unconditional patriotism in the first place. The state I live in (Texas) has apparently become a breeding ground for some unbelievably tremendous fucktards. While I have a sentimental attachment to Texas and the U.S., if I weren't tethered here with family I'd get the hell out of both. I'm incredibly embarrassed that gay (and women's) rights are still debated in the state and country in which I live. Why do I have to pretend to be patriotic to a country that shits on the fundamental civil rights of its citizens? Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Well, I think patriotism is saying, "I love this country and I won't stand for this bullshit. For America's betterment I'll see it changed." Nationalism is saying, "If you want to criticize this country then you can move to Cuba." That said, I think the Ex-Pat perspective is totally reasonable. We're not the only good, or the best country. I'm a citizen of the world first and foremost. There are a lot of fantastic lives to be lived out there in a lot of great countries. Link to post Share on other sites
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