Politics 2015

[uncool2pillow]

So Trump's officially in I see? I think he is essentially running to further his brand name and get others to help pay. He will be entertaining. I am not sure we have ever had a thinner-skinned candidate in my lifetime. He went on a Twitter tirade directed toward Charles Krauthammer. Can't wait to see what happens next.

[KevinG]

So Trump's officially in I see? I think he is essentially running to further his brand name and get others to help pay. He will be entertaining. I am not sure we have ever had a thinner-skinned candidate in my lifetime. He went on a Twitter tirade directed toward Charles Krauthammer. Can't wait to see what happens next.

 

Jesus.  That man is a mess.  He has no chance of winning the nomination he is there out for his own self promotion and ego.  So the debates are gonna be interesting.  Not the mess that the actual debates will be.  (A drinking game has to be made, a shot for Benghazi, a shot for Obamacare, a shot for Clinton Global Fund!) you'd be drunk after 10 mins).  But the thing with limiting the debates to 10 top candidates.  You will have a clown like Trump in there possibly bumping the sole woman from the debate.  Man that sure does look good GOP.  

 

Normally I refrain from name calling of political figures, but I have a special hatred for Trump.  He is a no talent ass clown.  He is truly what is wrong with the American Political system.  

[uncool2pillow]

Normally I refrain from name calling of political figures, but I have a special hatred for Trump.  He is a no talent ass clown.  He is truly what is wrong with the American Political system.  

Fixed it for you.

[LouieB]

The more the merrier.

 

LouieB

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Trump is lower than a turd. A truly reprehensible human being. However, when it comes to douchenozzles with giant egos, Ben Carson should be put right down there with the Trumpster. Where do these people come off to have the nerve to think they are qualified for President of the United States when they have never held a single political office? I mean, I get why a lot of Americans don't like so called "career politicians," but don't you think a person should have some kind of experience holding an office - any office - before running for the position of most powerful person in the world!? How about local city council? State senator? County appraiser? To think that an asshole like Trump, Ben Carson, or, God help us all, Carly Fiorina could run for and potentially even win our presidency with ZERO real-world political experience (and, therefore, NO record to run on) just makes my blood boil. So you ran a company, so what? America is not a corporation, it's a country. So you wrote a book, good for you. I have written books, too. BFD Even the worst Republican governors, like Huckabee, Jeb, Jindal, etc., have some freaking experience and a record.

[KevinG]

Interesting the shooting in South Carolina has not received any attention here.  I would probably guess it is the fatigue that sets in when tragedies like this happen.  Think our political system has come to such a point that nothing will be done again, and things like these will continue happen.  Our nation will be outraged, but the outrage will subside.  

 

Predictably the left has gone on the gun control issue once again.  But truthfully I don't think any purposed gun law would have prevented the shoot form purchasing the gun.  Unless of course we rid ourselves of guns entirely, which isn't going to happen.  

 

And the politicians both in office and running for office have been tripping over themselves trying to find the right way to respond to this issue.  Heaven forbid we piss off the gun lobby, or a large white voting early primary state.  Best to call it accident or an assault of Christians.  

 

Surprisingly the nation has gone after a symbol (the confederate flag), rather than actually confront and sit down and deal with the issue.  Yes the flag racist, yes it should be taken down.  Anyone who has a confederate flag and displays it is either a racist, stupid or both.  The flag has as much to do with Southern Pride as does the Swastika does for German Pride.  Not to say the flag should be banned.  People are free display whatever they want.  But when you display it, you are a racist.  

 

But to my point, I am afraid that getting the confederate flag removed the capitol grounds is going to be seen as the nation is finally doing something about gun violence, or this shooting.  Removing the confederate flag is not going to prevent another shooting.  It is a distraction.  

 

Sigh.  So, unless we actually try and work to do something as a nation, we are going to have another mass shooting.  I guess we should put the over under at 6 months.  I will take the under.  

[lost highway]

^ pretty much summed up my thoughts.

[Hixter]

But when you display it, you are a racist.

Nope. And you're not a racist just because you watch a Lynyrd Skynyrd video or a Dukes of Hazzard episode. But I'll agree that the whole thing is yet another example of politicians needing to be seen as "doing something" after a tragedy.

[The Inside of Outside]

The flag is a side note, but one I am glad is being addressed.

 

The Confederate flag has been engrained in the culture of the South for 150 years. I lived in the south until I was 12, and the flag was treated with pride then (1970s) as it is now. In Tennessee back then, 7th graders took Tennessee History, which included, in my experience, memorizing the 95 counties, learning about the early settlement of the state, and a lengthy unit on the Civil War. The focus of the unit was the courage and bravery of those who fought against incredible odds. There was also the theme of the wrongs of slavery. At its core, though, it was a celebration of Southern values and those who fought the war. It was pretty powerful stuff for a 12/13 year old.

 

Some side notes: The streets in my neighborhood included Hood Drive, Jackson Lane, Longstreet Drive, Stuart Drive, and Robert E. Lee Lane. The high school that my siblings attended were known as the Rebels (the school was probably pretty close to 50% white and 50% black). The Confederate flag was a symbol of the school, and I remember it being waved at high school basketball games.

[lost highway]

Nope. And you're not a racist just because you watch a Lynyrd Skynyrd video or a Dukes of Hazzard episode. But I'll agree that the whole thing is yet another example of politicians needing to be seen as "doing something" after a tragedy.

That flag was President Davis's banner. He was trying to lead a new, separate country in part of ours. It was to be a country where humans from Africa could still be considered property. He lost. Some people still fly that flag, unpatriotic as it may be. Many of the fliers are ignorant, many are racist, but not all.

[The Inside of Outside]

That flag was President Davis's banner. He was trying to lead a new, separate country in part of ours. It was to be a country where humans from Africa could still be considered property. He lost. Some people still fly that flag, unpatriotic as it may be. Many of the fliers are ignorant, many are racist, but not all.

That pretty much sums it up for me, too.

 

I am hopeful that the flag issue results in a few of the ignorant, and others who have not thought deeply about it, giving it some thought and seeing it with fresh eyes. Even if a few change their views, the discussion will have been worth it. Unfortunately, the reason behind why the discussion is happening was not worth it.

[lost highway]

Unfortunately, the reason behind why the discussion is happening was not worth it.

Totally. It would have been nice to discuss taking it down from government buildings when life was normal, not when it felt like an impotent gesture after several people died.

[uncool2pillow]

Nope. And you're not a racist just because you watch a Lynyrd Skynyrd video or a Dukes of Hazzard episode. But I'll agree that the whole thing is yet another example of politicians needing to be seen as "doing something" after a tragedy.

Then he should've added racist or ignorant of the us of it in the 20th century. Its use rose thanks to the KKK and protests against the civil rights movement. Are there some that proudly claim "southern heritage" who may be less racist than me? Sure, but they've been hoodwinked about its meaning.

[uncool2pillow]

To add a bit to my train of thought, I believe the south has a LOT to be proud of. My mom grew up in Kentucky. She was born in 1942. I love much about my Kentucky heritage. Food, friendliness,community. My mom had a black nanny. She knew her family like her own. Her own kids were like cousins to my mom. The southern heritage they all share is what southern pride represents to me. My grandparents were probably typical southerners of that time. I don't recall hearing the n-word, but definitely some other racist attitudes. They certainly never flew the Confederate flag. I'm sure plenty in Kentucky do even though they didn't secede. It is a symbol of white southern pride. I'm sure you can find a handful of blacks that don't object to it, but they cannot celebrate its meaning. It's divisive and it needs to stop being officially sanctioned and I will remain comfortable judging those who celebrate it as either racist or at least mildly ignorant.

[KevinG]

Nope.

Instead of a one word rebuttal it would have been nice to have an actual thoughts on thi, or reasoning.

 

Let me explain why you are wrong. Any semi intelligent person knows the history of the flag, knows the meaning behind it. You look at it and say I am going to wear a t-shirt or put it on your front lawn you are saying "I believe in what this stands for." if you don't believe the flag is racist then you are an idiot and have no sense of history or the power behind symbols.

 

On the Dukes of Hazzard or Skynyrd. I never said watching them makes you a racist. I don't anyone has ever even implied that. Watching or viewing the flag does not make you a racist. Just has watching Will and Grace does not make you gay. I can see the point you are trying to make, but it is not working.

[tinnitus photography]

the funny thing about Skynyrd, at least from how I see it, is that the Ronnie-led band was far less about god, guns and glory and the trappings of the stars and bars than what Johnny's got going on. 

[Hixter]

if you don't believe the flag is racist then you are an idiot

I don't believe that a piece of cloth can be racist. 

 

It's the ideology that's important, not the flag itself, and I'd like to think that the fact that the flag flies over houses of legislature filled with black politicians who were elected by free, black citizens with rights equal to white Americans is a clear sign that the Civil War south is long gone and ain't coming back. Seven states' flags contain all or part of the Confederate flag, so I imagine that "concerned" politicians will set their sights on them next. And then we should consider banning the flags of the UK, Netherlands, Spain and the other nations who actually ran the slave trade. 95% of the slaves ended up in the Caribbean region and Brazil rather than the North American colonies, so we should target them too.

 

As for Amazon and the other bandwagon jumpers, I still see plenty of swastika items for sale. Tsk tsk.

 

the funny thing about Skynyrd, at least from how I see it, is that the Ronnie-led band was far less about god, guns and glory and the trappings of the stars and bars than what Johnny's got going on. 

 

And no, I don't think they were racists.

[KevinG]

Really unrelated to politics or the discussion of racism (or maybe it is) but I have to tell my favorite Skynyrd story.  This was awhile back when I was living in Minneapolis.  One night drinking in Nordeast we ventured into the 22nd Ave Station.  Which is seeminly a regular bar, with a meat raffle and pints of Grain Belt on special.  Tucked away in a side room is the strip club area of the bar.  So me and my buddies sit down in the bar and do what you do at a strip club.  After awhile a dancer gets up and performs.  As she dances we notice she has a couple of tattoos on her leg (not an uncommon sight at this particular club), so she ends opening her legs and we get a good look at her tattoos and in big letters on the inner right thigh reads Lynyrd and the inner left thigh reads Skynyrd.  

 

Now, do I think that woman was or is a racist, no I do not.  But you have to question her judgement and life choices to get a Lynyrd Skynyrd tattoo in that particular place.  

[tinnitus photography]

Really unrelated to politics or the discussion of racism (or maybe it is) but I have to tell my favorite Skynyrd story.  This was awhile back when I was living in Minneapolis.  One night drinking in Nordeast we ventured into the 22nd Ave Station.  Which is seeminly a regular bar, with a meat raffle and pints of Grain Belt on special.  Tucked away in a side room is the strip club area of the bar.  So me and my buddies sit down in the bar and do what you do at a strip club.  After awhile a dancer gets up and performs.  As she dances we notice she has a couple of tattoos on her leg (not an uncommon sight at this particular club), so she ends opening her legs and we get a good look at her tattoos and in big letters on the inner right thigh reads Lynyrd and the inner left thigh reads Skynyrd.  

 

Now, do I think that woman was or is a racist, no I do not.  But you have to question her judgement and life choices to get a Lynyrd Skynyrd tattoo in that particular place.  

there's a (Molly) hatchet wound joke here somewhere...

 

btw Hixter, do you have attribution for this? not saying you're wrong but i've never heard of such a figure.

95% of the slaves ended up in the Caribbean region and Brazil rather than the North American colonies

 

[uncool2pillow]

I don't believe that a piece of cloth can be racist. 

 

It's the ideology that's important, not the flag itself, and I'd like to think that the fact that the flag flies over houses of legislature filled with black politicians who were elected by free, black citizens with rights equal to white Americans is a clear sign that the Civil War south is long gone and ain't coming back. Seven states' flags contain all or part of the Confederate flag, so I imagine that "concerned" politicians will set their sights on them next. And then we should consider banning the flags of the UK, Netherlands, Spain and the other nations who actually ran the slave trade. 95% of the slaves ended up in the Caribbean region and Brazil rather than the North American colonies, so we should target them too.

 

As for Amazon and the other bandwagon jumpers, I still see plenty of swastika items for sale. Tsk tsk.

 

 

 

And no, I don't think they were racists.

 

1. I think everyone would agree with your first sentence.
2. Regarding your point about black elected officials, their existence is a tangible, real sign of progress on the racial front, but so would stopping the official sanctioning of the Confederate flag.
3. The Mississippi flag is the only one that reflects the whole stars & bars image. It has been discussed almost as much as the Confederate flag in South Carolina in the past week.
4. The continuation of slavery (or states' rights to continue it) was the primary reason for the existence of the CSA. Those other countries have much more behind the symbol of the nation. As Larry Wilmore pointed out, the Confederate Flag is used by neo-Nazis in European countries where the Swastika is banned. Why? Is it part of the heritage? No. It symbolizes hate.
5. Hearing that swastika imagery is still for sale on Amazon is just a reminder of how we act in the social media age. Everyone will be focused on this issue for a while despite all sorts of hypocrisy goes on to which we are oblivious. It reminds me of a couple of years ago when passions were flamed about the so-called Ground Zero Mosque. How many of us who were so worked up about that even know its status today? Kind of sad, but I know I am guilty of that kind of thing as I am participating in it right now.

 

btw Hixter, do you have attribution for this? not saying you're wrong but i've never heard of such a figure.

 

That sounded pretty accurate from my history classes on the topic. Here's an article: http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery

[Winston Legthigh]

Really unrelated to politics or the discussion of racism (or maybe it is) but I have to tell my favorite Skynyrd story.  This was awhile back when I was living in Minneapolis.  One night drinking in Nordeast we ventured into the 22nd Ave Station.  Which is seeminly a regular bar, with a meat raffle and pints of Grain Belt on special.  Tucked away in a side room is the strip club area of the bar.  So me and my buddies sit down in the bar and do what you do at a strip club.  After awhile a dancer gets up and performs.  As she dances we notice she has a couple of tattoos on her leg (not an uncommon sight at this particular club), so she ends opening her legs and we get a good look at her tattoos and in big letters on the inner right thigh reads Lynyrd and the inner left thigh reads Skynyrd.  

 

Now, do I think that woman was or is a racist, no I do not.  But you have to question her judgement and life choices to get a Lynyrd Skynyrd tattoo in that particular place.  

Hell yes, gotta love the Deuce Two.

[Hixter]

btw Hixter, do you have attribution for this? not saying you're wrong but i've never heard of such a figure.

http://www.slavevoyages.org/tast/assessment/estimates.faces

[uncool2pillow]

I imagine that "concerned" politicians will set their sights on them next. And then we should consider banning the flags of the UK, Netherlands, Spain and the other nations who actually ran the slave trade. 95% of the slaves ended up in the Caribbean region and Brazil rather than the North American colonies, so we should target them too.

 

Like I said above, I don't think their flags symbolize this ugly history, but it is important to remember other parts of the world and their history of racism as well. Some Americans want to vilify America without understanding how the rest of the world has and continues to respond to diversity. Europe is much more of a crucible for radical Islam than America because of the reception Muslims get there. Switzerland bans minarets, France bans hijabs from public schools, Muslims are vilified in Europe are more than they are in America. America has issues and some places may be better, but many are much worse.

 

This NPR story struck me as an interesting parallel to our discussion of the Confederate flag in this country. http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/06/23/416785789/at-long-last-small-spanish-town-changes-kill-the-jews-name?sc=tw

[tinnitus photography]

 

1. I think everyone would agree with your first sentence.
2. Regarding your point about black elected officials, their existence is a tangible, real sign of progress on the racial front, but so would stopping the official sanctioning of the Confederate flag.
3. The Mississippi flag is the only one that reflects the whole stars & bars image. It has been discussed almost as much as the Confederate flag in South Carolina in the past week.
4. The continuation of slavery (or states' rights to continue it) was the primary reason for the existence of the CSA. Those other countries have much more behind the symbol of the nation. As Larry Wilmore pointed out, the Confederate Flag is used by neo-Nazis in European countries where the Swastika is banned. Why? Is it part of the heritage? No. It symbolizes hate.
5. Hearing that swastika imagery is still for sale on Amazon is just a reminder of how we act in the social media age. Everyone will be focused on this issue for a while despite all sorts of hypocrisy goes on to which we are oblivious. It reminds me of a couple of years ago when passions were flamed about the so-called Ground Zero Mosque. How many of us who were so worked up about that even know its status today? Kind of sad, but I know I am guilty of that kind of thing as I am participating in it right now.

 

 

That sounded pretty accurate from my history classes on the topic. Here's an article: http://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/slavery-and-anti-slavery/resources/facts-about-slave-trade-and-slavery

 

So it turns out the US was better at keeping them alive and having kids...

[uncool2pillow]

So it turns out the US was better at keeping them alive and having kids...

No, not really

 

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-American_peoples_of_the_Americas

 

Afro-American peoples of the Americas is used to refer to people born in the Americas who have African ancestors. Most are descendants of people enslaved and transferred from Sub-Saharan Africa (the vast majority of the Gulf of Guinea) to the Americas by Europeans, to work in their colonies, mostly in mines and plantations as slaves, between the sixteenth and nineteenth centuries. At present, they constitute about 18% of the population of the Americas, with the largest concentrations by percentage of population in Haiti (92%), Jamaica (91%), Barbados (90%), Turks and Caicos (90%),Dominica (87%), The Bahamas (85%), Dominican Republic (84%),^[7] Saint Lucia (83%), Saint Vincent and the Grenadines(66%), Bermuda (55%), Cuba (50%), Puerto Rico (46%), Belize (35%), Trinidad and Tobago (34.2%),^[8] Brazil (29%),Panama (21%), United States (13.6%),^[3] Colombia (10.52%),^[4] Uruguay (6%),^[9][10] Canada (2.9%),^[5] and Venezuela(2.8%).^[6]