Politics 2016 (election edition)

[KevinG]

You mean like Hillary Clinton?

 

This is far different from we are seeing from Trump. Trump will contradict himself in the same speech and sometimes in the same sentence.

 

And now he is completely changing is tune on the thing which made him so popular in the first place, self funding is campaign (which was bullshit to begin with). He is seeking out and getting big donations from the Republican party http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-republicans-finalize-joint-fundraising-deal-1463537455. Of course on his website he still talks about being self funded and anti establishment.

 

The video that you linked to, showed policy changes over the course of time. This is can be a good thing. Society changes, sometimes politicians lead, sometimes politicians follow and change their positions to reflect society. This may to be get votes. But it reflects the will of the people. Contrast that with Trump. Since he announced his candidacy in June he has held wildly different positions. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/08/17/20-times-donald-trump-has-changed-his-mind-since-june/

 

I guess my point is this, I know what type of President Clinton will be. I know the general direction the country will take for the next 4 to 8 years. Whereas, I don't think anyone could truthfully say the same thing about a Trump presidency.

[lost highway]

Obama changed his position on gay marriage. I like how that turned out.

[Hixter]

This election is like trying to decide which cancer is more healthy for you.

[Hixter]

The video that you linked to, showed policy changes over the course of time.

It shows her flat out lying. Even when she's given the chance to save face by saying that her views have evolved over time or that she was unable to speak truthfully due to political concerns, she digs in her heels and pretends that her views have never changed. Pure politics; she'll say anything to garner votes.

 

I know the general direction the country will take for the next 4 to 8 years. Whereas, I don't think anyone could truthfully say the same thing about a Trump presidency.

In a nutshell: same old same old.

[KevinG]

It shows her flat out lying. Even when she's given the chance to save face by saying that her views have evolved over time or that she was unable to speak truthfully due to political concerns, she digs in her heels and pretends that her views have never changed. Pure politics; she'll say anything to garner votes.

 

I said as much. I know Clinton is a politician. I accept the policy changes. Even if it is to garner votes. Changes on gay marriage, etc. I am cool with that. Politicians can change their minds, politicians evolve. If not women would not be able to vote and African Americans would be slaves. As for the other stuff, most of it is the general bs, all people and politicians spin.

 

But again on core policy issues, Trump is wildly inconsistent, my previous link proves that.

 

Whether or not you agree we with me, I have defended Clinton. Something that don't seem to want to with Trump.

 

I guess you would much rather to continue to bash Clinton rather than defend or acknowledge Trumps many failings.

[jff]

Adopting views that suit the desires of the populace (within reason) is the definition of representative democracy.

[Doug C]

Regarding pretending to be his own publicist. Trump admitted it in 1991, it was "a joke gone awry". When asked about it a week or so ago, "No. That's not my voice". All he had to say was, "Yeah. That's me. I was having a laugh and shouldn't have done it. It appears stupid now". He'd rather give Clinton and the Democrats endless ad campaign fodder. The hell?

[Winston Legthigh]

The video that you linked to, showed policy changes over the course of time. 

 

Did you watch it?

 

It didn't just show policy changes over the course of time - it showed her heatedly defending her stance that her policy was consistent the whole time, and that she never changed her position, even when confronted with evidence to the contrary.

 

I have no problem with a candidate changing positions, but a candidate that does so while also somehow maintaining that they've never been wrong, or flat out denying their previous position, is problematic. 

[Winston Legthigh]

Seriously. I'm flabbergasted that these two Numbnuts are the best we have to choose from. Never before, in my eyes and lifetime as a voter, has the South Park truism of Douchebag V Turd Sandwich rang truer. 

 

At this point, I'm begging for Romney, and I've never voted Republican in my life. 

[Ghost of Electricity]

What are the chances the Democrats will (try to) heal their rift by putting up a Clinton/Sanders ticket? 

[jff]

I wish that would happen just to see the reaction from the #NeverHillary crowd.

[Doug C]

What are the chances the Democrats will (try to) heal their rift by putting up a Clinton/Sanders ticket? 

That could result in a Paul Ryan presidency at some point!

[KevinG]

Did you watch it?

 

It didn't just show policy changes over the course of time - it showed her heatedly defending her stance that her policy was consistent the whole time, and that she never changed her position, even when confronted with evidence to the contrary.

 

I have no problem with a candidate changing positions, but a candidate that does so while also somehow maintaining that they've never been wrong, or flat out denying their previous position, is problematic. 

 

Yes I watched it (and I am offended that you suggest otherwise).  I understand that Clinton like all politicians change their stances through time and then try to rewrite the record.  Show me a politician that doesn't. She like many people (and may powerful people) has a problem admitting when they are wrong.  Again, I am fine with this.  So I might be naive, but in January when she is president she is not going to turn back on the principals she has expressed in the last year of her candidacy.  

 

The same thing cannot be said of Donald Trump.  What are his positions?  Let's take military intervention in the middle east.  Where does he stand?  http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/20/opinions/trump-aipac-meeting-miller/  This is a big important global issue.  He is so wildly inconsistent.  Even in his foreign policy address was a mess.  It is a mass of red meat talking points, vague statements, that often times contradict themselves.     Are we ready to hand over the keys to our military to a man whose views seem to be random?  Simple case no one knows what type of President Trump would be.  

 

But again, I am done defending Clinton.  She is not a perfect candidate.  I differ from her on several items.  I understand she has a complicated past.  But simply she is qualified and her views are where I would like to see the country going.  

 

I have not heard one thing, from any Trump supporter, on how they justify his racism, xenophobia, misogyny, and inconstancy.  Or express the qualities that would make him a good leader of the free world.         

[Winston Legthigh]

Yes I watched it (and I am offended that you suggest otherwise).  I understand that Clinton like all politicians change their stances through time and then try to rewrite the record.  Show me a politician that doesn't. She like many people (and may powerful people) has a problem admitting when they are wrong.  Again, I am fine with this.  So I might be naive, but in January when she is president she is not going to turn back on the principals she has expressed in the last year of her candidacy.  

 

        

 

Well you ignored that she vehemently denied that she ever changed her position, or you didn't acknowledge it, or you spinned it that it was merely a video of her changing her stances.

 

But I see you've addressed it now and that it doesn't matter to you.

 

You're willing to look the other way when Hillary's bad points are brought up. I assume that Trump supporters are capable of doing the same. 

[John Smith]

It is entirely possible for Two people to watch the same video and come to different conclusions.

[Lammycat]

Unless it's porn....

[Lammycat]

Yeah, it's Fox News, but this headline isrepresentative of why I, in general, tend to bury my head in the sand until right before the actual election:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/18/fox-news-poll-trump-tops-clinton-both-seen-as-deeply-flawed-candidates.html

[Winston Legthigh]

Green Party here I come.

[KevinG]

 

You're willing to look the other way when Hillary's bad points are brought up. I assume that Trump supporters are capable of doing the same. 

 

You seem to think that the Clinton's bad points are on par with Trump's. 

 

I understand that Trump voters will look the other way when they vote for Trump.  But I have at least acknowledged Clinton's faults.  I have yet to hear any acknowledgement of Trump's faults.  I have brought up his faults many, many times, no one even seems to refute my assertions.  But there are people and some on this board who has stated they will vote Trump.  I just cannot understand with the things he has said anyone can vote for him.  It has gone past of merely looking the other way.  

 

What in the last 10 months or so has proven to you that Trump is worthy of your vote to be the leader of the free world?  Does the specter of a Clinton presidency fill you with so much dread that you are willing for Trump to be president?         

[Winston Legthigh]

What in the last 10 months or so has proven to you that Trump is worthy of your vote to be the leader of the free world?  Does the specter of a Clinton presidency fill you with so much dread that you are willing for Trump to be president?         

 

Green Party here I come.

[tinnitus photography]

Unless it's porn....

i always thought it was one girl, two cups.

[lost highway]

Let's be honest here. Clinton supporters have to acknowledge some flaws or they're partially in denial. Trump supporters either have a pathological tendency toward denial or they're batshit crazy. Then again, Bernie supporters seem to carry some denial themselves.

[jff]

I know lots of Clinton supporters.  I've yet to meet one who denies she's a flawed candidate. In fact, I've never met any democrat or democrat supporter who has ever felt their candidate was flawless.

[KevinG]

Let's be honest here. Clinton supporters have to acknowledge some flaws or they're partially in denial. Trump supporters either have a pathological tendency toward denial or they're batshit crazy. Then again, Bernie supporters seem to carry some denial themselves.

 

I don't think anyone on either side of the isle thinks their candidate is perfect.  There are things that people wish their candidate would do or say, that they never will.  It is the nature of the beast.  

 

Where I think there is a disconnect between Clinton and Trump supporters is the nature of what they are willing to look past.  We all know what Trump has said about women and minorities.  Think about if you were at a party and you heard someone call Mexicans rapists, or spout some of his other nonsense.  Would you say something?  Would you think that is acceptable?

 

Also lest we forget, Trump is an anti-vaccine advocate.  This stance right there should give anyone pause who is considering Trump.  The responsibility of the President is to nominate a secretary of Health and Human Services and Surgeon General.  This will help shape the health policies of our nation.  The anti-vaccine movement is dangerous.  Having the power of the presidency and promoting this would have a dangerous and lasting affect on the health of nation.  This isn't a made of trade policy, that could affect jobs.  This isn't taxes, which would affect how much money you have or don't have.  Heck, this is more important then your precious guns.  

 

If Trump gets elected he may not outwardly ban vaccines or suggest legislation that will curb their use, but he will set policy and set the direction of how we deal with health issues.  So is this something that you can merely look past and vote for Trump, just because he is not Clinton?   

[Hixter]

Also lest we forget, Trump is an anti-vaccine advocate. 

If I recall correctly, Trump mandated spreading vaccines out over a longer period of time. I doubt there's any indication that it does any good, but that doesn't make him anti-vax.