DiamondClaw Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 It's no coincidence that I think "Hot Sun" is the best song on the EP. It's the only one CLB is credited on, and it feels the most developed, three dimensional and Cousin-like to me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian F. Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 I really love both Cruel Country and Cousin, especially compared to Schmilco and Ode to Joy, and my understanding is that the former albums were both products of collaboration more so than the latter two (former/latter referring to my preceding sentence, not the release dates of the albums), so I'm not sure I get the pre- and post-Star Wars demarcation. I actually think Star Wars-Schmilco-Ode to Joy is the low point of the band's catalog, regardless of how those albums came together. If I were ranking the albums, those would probably be Nos. 11, 12 and 13, with a big gap between whatever No. 10 is and No. 11. My problem with Ode to Joy is that it feels more like an intellectual exercise than an attempt to create enjoyable songs. A lot of it seems to be Glenn deconstructing rhythm to the point where the songs have no momentum or sense of anything pulling them forward. When that album came out, I listened to it every day for about six months to try to uncover what it had to offer. When I went back to it again a couple of years later, several of the songs barely even seemed familiar to me. That's how little of an impression they made despite hundreds of listens. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian F. Posted July 10 Share Posted July 10 1 hour ago, summerdai said: I would say it is Record Store Day prices. It may be $10 cheaper on the website, but the SS version in white vinyl was limited to 1,000 I believe and you could do your own cover! That's what you are paying extra for I'm paying extra to do their work for them? I really got fleeced then, since I didn't bother with the customization. Then again, I didn't pay thirty dollars. I paid an unknowable price as part of the FotF package. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jff Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 17 hours ago, Brian F. said: I really love both Cruel Country and Cousin, especially compared to Schmilco and Ode to Joy, and my understanding is that the former albums were both products of collaboration more so than the latter two (former/latter referring to my preceding sentence, not the release dates of the albums), so I'm not sure I get the pre- and post-Star Wars demarcation. I actually think Star Wars-Schmilco-Ode to Joy is the low point of the band's catalog, regardless of how those albums came together. If I were ranking the albums, those would probably be Nos. 11, 12 and 13, with a big gap between whatever No. 10 is and No. 11. My problem with Ode to Joy is that it feels more like an intellectual exercise than an attempt to create enjoyable songs. A lot of it seems to be Glenn deconstructing rhythm to the point where the songs have no momentum or sense of anything pulling them forward. When that album came out, I listened to it every day for about six months to try to uncover what it had to offer. When I went back to it again a couple of years later, several of the songs barely even seemed familiar to me. That's how little of an impression they made despite hundreds of listens. I have similar feelings about Ode to Joy. I didn't come close to giving it as many chances as you, but I listened to it plenty, saw them on the tour (their choice to open with two aggressively morose songs lends credence to your observation that it felt like an intellectual exercise), kept trying for quite a while after, watched Glenn explain all his beats (I'm a drummer, so normally this kind of thing will hook me), tried to convince myself that I was starting to dig certain things about it. But I just couldn't get there with it, and eventually gave up. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted July 11 Share Posted July 11 Hey Everyone, Just wanted to jump on and say that this EP has been a welcome surprise! Cousin was a massive disappointment for me (Cruel Country was to...to a lesser extent), and this EP goes in a lot of places sonically that I wish they would venture more often and expand on. The comments about Jeff's singing is something that has bugged me for quite a while now, but I think it works wonderfully here. Of course, I also really liked Ode to Joy, which along with Star Wars, have been my favorite post-SBS things they have done. I would add this to that list. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 kind of off topic but w/ all this discussion about EPs, i just want to toot my own horn a tiny bit and say that i contributed to a book that exalts the EP, with a pretty exhaustive look back at some of the best ones: https://hozacrecords.com/product/aifl/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian F. Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 It's funny how, in a sample size of just four or five posters, we run the gamut of opinions on the relative merits of Wilco's last several releases. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
summerdai Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/10/2024 at 4:18 PM, Brian F. said: I'm paying extra to do their work for them? I really got fleeced then, since I didn't bother with the customization. Then again, I didn't pay thirty dollars. I paid an unknowable price as part of the FotF package. No paying extra for limited edition white vinyl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
summerdai Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/10/2024 at 4:15 PM, Brian F. said: I really love both Cruel Country and Cousin, especially compared to Schmilco and Ode to Joy, and my understanding is that the former albums were both products of collaboration more so than the latter two (former/latter referring to my preceding sentence, not the release dates of the albums), so I'm not sure I get the pre- and post-Star Wars demarcation. I actually think Star Wars-Schmilco-Ode to Joy is the low point of the band's catalog, regardless of how those albums came together. If I were ranking the albums, those would probably be Nos. 11, 12 and 13, with a big gap between whatever No. 10 is and No. 11. My problem with Ode to Joy is that it feels more like an intellectual exercise than an attempt to create enjoyable songs. A lot of it seems to be Glenn deconstructing rhythm to the point where the songs have no momentum or sense of anything pulling them forward. When that album came out, I listened to it every day for about six months to try to uncover what it had to offer. When I went back to it again a couple of years later, several of the songs barely even seemed familiar to me. That's how little of an impression they made despite hundreds of listens. I agree. For me Cruel Country is a near masterpiece and Cousin continues to grow on me. Much better than the 3 albums before CC Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Tatlock Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 7 hours ago, Brian F. said: It's funny how, in a sample size of just four or five posters, we run the gamut of opinions on the relative merits of Wilco's last several releases. Yeah - but I like how VC remains a 'safe space' for differing considered opinions rather than the sycophantic FB place. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian F. Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 6 hours ago, summerdai said: No paying extra for limited edition white vinyl. Neither of these things mean anything to me. The "limited edition" thing is artificial-- before too long, they're going to release it in a more widely available edition that will have the same songs sounding exactly the same. And I don't really care what color it is. It's a gimmick. Obviously, other people feel differently and that's why they jack up the price. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
summerdai Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 5 minutes ago, Brian F. said: Neither of these things mean anything to me. The "limited edition" thing is artificial-- before too long, they're going to release it in a more widely available edition that will have the same songs sounding exactly the same. And I don't really care what color it is. It's a gimmick. Obviously, other people feel differently and that's why they jack up the price. Ok fine. Would rather pay $15 but happy to help the band out by buying physical product. What irked me more at SS was $14 for a beer. So it's only 2 beers after all! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian F. Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: Yeah - but I like how VC remains a 'safe space' for differing considered opinions rather than the sycophantic FB place. Do you know how many people follow them on Facebook/are in the Facebook group/whatever the proper phrasing is? (I'm not on Facebook.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
theashtraysays Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 3 hours ago, Brian F. said: Do you know how many people follow them on Facebook/are in the Facebook group/whatever the proper phrasing is? (I'm not on Facebook.) The fb group (a private group - must be “approved” to join) is called A Shot in the Arm and has 12k members. It’s weird in that even though you have to use your real name (as opposed to here where you usually have anonymity), the trolling and bitching are just bananas. Kinda like here back when things were obnoxious as hell like 15-20 years ago. VC actually seems like it’s the grown up table and fb is where the bratty kids (5%) and the fanboys (25%) hang out and collide on a regular basis while the majority just kinda watches. VC seems to have actual discussion. WHO KNEW??? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
linclink1111 Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 On 7/9/2024 at 12:48 PM, Brian F. said: To each their own: I think "A Bowl and a Pudding" is the second-best track on Cousin, behind "Sunlight Ends," and I rank both at the high end of Wilco's catalog. "Sunlight Ends" might be one of my five favorite Wilco songs, and "A Bowl and a Pudding" might be in the top 20 or 25. I was about to push back against the "since way back when" comment by bringing up Jar of Flies or Broken, just to name two outstanding EPs of recent vintage off the top of my head, only to realize that both of these are at least thirty years old and thus both qualify as "way back when." This made me feel really old. I hear you about the aging- seems to blow by faster & faster too... just turned 60 on 4/20 this year myself. Until the next numerical milestone, we can always take solace by enjoying this quarter of a decade old oldie... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 11 hours ago, Albert Tatlock said: Yeah - but I like how VC remains a 'safe space' for differing considered opinions rather than the sycophantic FB place. Seriously. Critical discussion is wonderful- people liking and disliking things for interesting reasons without being aggressive or defensive. Hard to come by in the age of hot takes on social media. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 2 hours ago, lost highway said: Seriously. Critical discussion is wonderful- people liking and disliking things for interesting reasons without being aggressive or defensive. Hard to come by in the age of hot takes on social media. Definitely true, and VC has been one of the few places that has maintained that ethos...at least, for the 20 years I've been coming here. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondClaw Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 On 7/11/2024 at 6:28 PM, bleedorange said: Hey Everyone, Just wanted to jump on and say that this EP has been a welcome surprise! Cousin was a massive disappointment for me (Cruel Country was to...to a lesser extent), and this EP goes in a lot of places sonically that I wish they would venture more often and expand on. The comments about Jeff's singing is something that has bugged me for quite a while now, but I think it works wonderfully here. Of course, I also really liked Ode to Joy, which along with Star Wars, have been my favorite post-SBS things they have done. I would add this to that list. Curious, what made Cousin such a disappointment for you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 On 7/13/2024 at 9:10 AM, DiamondClaw said: Curious, what made Cousin such a disappointment for you? I found it way too sleepy and same-y sounding, and thought it did not succeed in the same ways that Ode to Joy did where both are mining the same territory. And none of the songs worked for me at their show, which might not be a fair criticism since it was pretty early on, but they just fell flat on stage. The disappointment came from "Cousin," which is a great song, but turned out to be an outlier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian F. Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 For those who are unaware, or who are not Starship Casual subscribers, a first draft of "Ice Cream" was shared on the Substack page way back in October 2021: https://jefftweedy.substack.com/p/ice-cream-1st-draft (Also attached below as mp3 for those who cannot access the Substack page.) Ice Cream (1st draft).mp3 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DiamondClaw Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 19 hours ago, bleedorange said: I found it way too sleepy and same-y sounding, and thought it did not succeed in the same ways that Ode to Joy did where both are mining the same territory. And none of the songs worked for me at their show, which might not be a fair criticism since it was pretty early on, but they just fell flat on stage. The disappointment came from "Cousin," which is a great song, but turned out to be an outlier. That makes sense. I think Cousin is great, their best album since The Whole Love, but a not-insignificant factor in my enjoyment of it is an adjustment in expectations. With each new album over the last several years, I've hoped for a more explosive, dynamic Wilco, and then ended up somewhat underwhelmed by the eventual release. I had to just accept what Jeff Tweedy is nowadays and what he wants out of a Wilco album. That said, his own "art pop" hype didn't do this project any favors, since it conjured up expectations of stuff even more adventurous. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
summerdai Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Guys in their 50s and 60s are not going to make the same kind of music as they did in their 20s or 30s. We have much to be grateful for in their amazingly consistent output, but there's not going to be another YHF or AGIB at this stage, and I wouldn't want them to try and force something more edgy and experimental for the sake of it. Just wouldn't work in all probability. They are not above criticism, but as I wrote previously I really like CC and Cousin. The EP is a bit below those, but that's kind of what I expected from "leftovers". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Brian F. Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 I'm not looking for any artist to make the same kind of music they did thirty years ago, but I could point to Pearl Jam as a bunch of guys in their 50s and 60s who just released a pretty fantastic album that stands up with anything else they've done. The album has gotten strong reviews from critics and even spawned two number one songs at rock radio, which no Pearl Jam album before had done. Even Pearl Jam fans seem to really like it, which is saying something since a lot of them seem to only want to relive 1992-98. I actually think there are a number of aging rock bands that are still making really great records that get overlooked because younger people are not in touch with rock music and older people are content to relive the greatest hits of the band's purported heydays. I still treat new albums from my favorite rock artists as events and give those albums a lot of attention when they come out. I feel like I am pretty much always rewarded for this because these artists generally do not disappoint. With respect to Wilco, I know I'm an outlier among fans in that I don't hold up YHF and AGIB as the peak of their output. This could have something to do with the fact that I'm also an outlier in that I was on the Wilco train from the beginning, so A.M. was my gateway drug and then Being There and Summerteeth (my favorite) were the albums that expanded the palette and cemented the band in the pantheon for me even before YHF came along, whereas YHF was the gateway drug for a much larger part of the fan base and AGIB plumbed further depths. At the same time, there are several latter-day albums, including Cruel Country, that I'd probably rank ahead of Wilco's two best-selling albums, so it's not just a matter of me putting the first three albums on a pedestal because of how much I lived with them when they were new. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Albert Tatlock Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 On 7/15/2024 at 3:02 PM, DiamondClaw said: I think Cousin is great, their best album since The Whole Love, but a not-insignificant factor in my enjoyment of it is an adjustment in expectations. With each new album over the last several years, I've hoped for a more explosive, dynamic Wilco, and then ended up somewhat underwhelmed by the eventual release. I had to just accept what Jeff Tweedy is nowadays and what he wants out of a Wilco album. You took the words right out of my mouth. I don't think we've ever kissed though. Having Annihilation, Hot Sun and Meant To Be has given recent setlists a more spritely feel IMHO and I would be much more interested in seeing the again now. 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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