More on the "controversy"

[aricandover]

C'mon, guys. This is like the end of Rocky, where they're just barely holding each other up, bloody, sweaty, exhausted...

 

 

to me, it's more like the end of Rocky V, when George Washington Duke says, "WHATINTHEHELL!?!?!"

[Beltmann]

More like Paul Reubens' death scene in the Buffy movie.

[aricandover]

More like Paul Reubens' death scene in the Buffy movie.

 

 

he should've won an oscar for that performance.

[boywiththorninside]

Did anyone attend the Tweedy/Lessig talk about file-sharing at the NY Public Library back in 2005?

 

I missed it, but just re-read the NY Times article about it:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/09/arts/mus...bb2&ei=5070

 

 

Some choice quotes/excerpts:

 

 

"I don't think anybody should make any money on music," Mr. Tweedy said at one point, only half joking. "Maybe we would pay audiences." (Is this a typo? Is it supposed to be should pay?)

 

It is a curious sight when a rock star appears before his flock and suggests they take his work without paying for it, and even encourages them to. Mr. Tweedy, who has never been much for rock convention, became a convert to Internet peer-to-peer sharing of music files in 2001, after his band was dropped from its label on the cusp of a tour.

 

Mr. Tweedy has little sympathy for artists who complain about downloading. "To me, the only people who are complaining are people who are so rich they never deserve to be paid again," he said.

 

Once you create something, it doesn't exist in the consciousness of the creator," Mr. Tweedy said, telling the audience that they had an investment in a song just by the act of listening. Later, at a dinner at Lever House, Mr. Tweedy suggested that downloading was an act of rightful "civil disobedience."

 

 

 

According to Tweedy, we each have an investment in the SBS/Volkswagen songs just by listening. Thus, I guess I have a right to be bothered by the ads. I feel better now.

 

People who don't pay for music shouldn't feel bad either. It's an act of civil disobedience. I pay for music, but may heed this advice in the future.

[bobbob1313]

Maybe he's doing this so that if people don't pay for his music, it's not so bad?

[Dreamin']

Naomi Klein

She's not even American!

Seriously though, No Logo is a very interesting read and these threads have inspired me to dust it off again.

 

A fan msg board is probably not the best place to seek an open-minded discussion about this kind of thing. Some of you protest too much, methinks.

 

It's interesting to hear why Wilco and so many other musicians with a lot of artistic integrity have chosen to go this route. If you make an album as brilliant as SBS, it's understandable that you want it to be heard. People like Neil Young are able to float in a bubble of virtue because they enjoy the dual privilege of great wealth and enormous exposure. In fact, Neil is so blessed, he famously lets some of his best stuff gather dust in the can for decades! If he was starting out today, perhaps it would be a different story. (Neil drives a Hummer that runs on biodiesel, btw. How crazy is that?)

 

Recently, I was surprised to hear that Douglas Coupland (!) was shilling for Blackberry (a fine Canadian company, mind you). WTF? As usual, he had a fresh way of looking at it:

 

This Fall I did a promotion for the Blackberry Pearl. Some people think this was weird but I don't. My fee was a terrific way to raise money for the Contemporary Art Gallery in downtown Vancouver. In a similar vein I did an ad for Absolut quite a few years back. People can forget that as a writer your ways of fundraising for charity are extremely limited. Painters can donate paintings to auctions but writers? Donating books is one option' date=' but it won't raise much. To raise a meaningful sum I think you really have to put yourself out there.[/quote']

[bjorn_skurj]

(Neil drives a Hummer that runs on biodiesel, btw. How crazy is that?)

Insane! What can he be thinking?

[boywiththorninside]

Maybe he's doing this so that if people don't pay for his music, it's not so bad?

 

Perhaps. It's not a bad argument. After all, the Wilcoworld release did say the ads are an attempt to move units. The thing is I don't think the ads identify Wilco as the group responsible for the accompanying music. Thus, how are people who turn to TV ads to guide them in their music purchases going to know it is Wilco they want to buy? I guess they'll be forced to resort to Googling "music and VW ad." Unfortunately, they'll then probably wind up buying Nick Drake instead of Wilco. These ads, I tell you, are really a lose/lose situation.

[Dreamin']

Insane! What can he be thinking?

He's nuts. It's part of his charm.

[SlowBurn68]

I would like to know just how much Jeff was involved in this marketing strategy. I guess I would find it disturbing if he was completely engaged and taking meetings and such.

[HighFives]

i think this thread needs to be locked. this has gotten way to outta hand.

[boywiththorninside]

I just held the Sky Blue Sky album cover up to a mirror. Some of the birds form a VW symbol, while others seem to spell "Fahrfenugen."

[bjorn_skurj]

Man, I would give my left nut for a mid-60s Beetle in decent running shape. No wait - both nuts for a VW Thing!

[Col. Hapablap]

Hmm...very interesting. The person at the center of this whole VC debate has gone all Prince on us and changed his name to a symbol. I guess he's officially "The Non-Commercial Artist Formerly Known As jnickerson." now?

[Wilco LP #7]

The licensing deal is disheartening. I've thought about it a lot of different ways, and I just can't get around it. To whatever degree, it does make me sad that it happened. But at the end of the day, the music is the most important thing. Until I feel like the music is impacted by commercialism, which I never have, I can keep my faith in Wilco. To this point, the largest rock and roll crime I can accuse Jeff of is letting commercialism capitalize on his music: he has yet to let commercialism change his making of the music, thankfully.

[j4lackey]

You wanna know why they're licensing their music?

 

1. Kids. They're having them. Kids are expensive. You wouldn't believe.

 

2. Kids. They wouldn't mind expanding their fan base downwards, to tech-savvy youngsters who have a disposable income and better things to do than sit and spill their approaching-middle-age vitriol out onto message boards.

 

As a dad and an artist, I don't think they've done anything wrong. Some people on here act like fame and success in the music business is a given, but the public is fickle, and these boys have worked their asses off for years so people in my hometown can say "What's a Wilco"? They're like pro athletes in a way. You think Glenn's gonna be able to play Kicking Television when he's 55? Well, maybe, but I certainly don't mind them licensing a few songs to a fairly tasteful marketing campaign for a decent product that is, in reality, not all that evil, if it helps the band members who have their names on these songs make a decent living, and save up for kids' college and their own old age. It's part of growing up.

 

And yes, licensing these songs can be seen as a bit of a slippery slope, but I think Tweedy's track record shows where he really stands in the big picture, so anyone who purports to second guess him at this stage in the game is A. maybe trying to keep the world from sliding into the oozy morass it's already becoming, but B. would probably be more effective by putting their efforts elsewhere.

[howdjadoo]

I just held the Sky Blue Sky album cover up to a mirror. Some of the birds form a VW symbol, while others seem to spell "Fahrfenugen."

 

Am just listening to Sgt.Pepper in reverse:Seems Paul is dead

 

 

 

Sennheisser or AKG:

[caliber66]

Did anyone attend the Tweedy/Lessig talk about file-sharing at the NY Public Library back in 2005?

 

I missed it, but just re-read the NY Times article about it:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/09/arts/mus...bb2&ei=5070

Some choice quotes/excerpts:

"I don't think anybody should make any money on music," Mr. Tweedy said at one point, only half joking. "Maybe we would pay audiences." (Is this a typo? Is it supposed to be should pay?)

No way of knowing just how much he was or was not joking. Clearly Jeff thinks he should be making money off his music, or he wouldn't sell it at all.

 

It is a curious sight when a rock star appears before his flock and suggests they take his work without paying for it, and even encourages them to. Mr. Tweedy, who has never been much for rock convention, became a convert to Internet peer-to-peer sharing of music files in 2001, after his band was dropped from its label on the cusp of a tour.

 

Mr. Tweedy has little sympathy for artists who complain about downloading. "To me, the only people who are complaining are people who are so rich they never deserve to be paid again," he said.

 

Once you create something, it doesn't exist in the consciousness of the creator," Mr. Tweedy said, telling the audience that they had an investment in a song just by the act of listening. Later, at a dinner at Lever House, Mr. Tweedy suggested that downloading was an act of rightful "civil disobedience."

According to Tweedy, we each have an investment in the SBS/Volkswagen songs just by listening. Thus, I guess I have a right to be bothered by the ads. I feel better now.

 

People who don't pay for music shouldn't feel bad either. It's an act of civil disobedience. I pay for music, but may heed this advice in the future.

How about this as a rationale for the ads: Jeff makes it so his audience doesn't have to pay to hear these songs by getting a corporation to pay for the privelege of playing them for us.

 

Perhaps. It's not a bad argument. After all, the Wilcoworld release did say the ads are an attempt to move units. The thing is I don't think the ads identify Wilco as the group responsible for the accompanying music. Thus, how are people who turn to TV ads to guide them in their music purchases going to know it is Wilco they want to buy? I guess they'll be forced to resort to Googling "music and VW ad." Unfortunately, they'll then probably wind up buying Nick Drake instead of Wilco. These ads, I tell you, are really a lose/lose situation.

That's exactly how I (and, I imagine, a lot of people) found out about Nick Drake. I'm sure it will work very well for Wilco also.

 

i think this thread needs to be locked. this has gotten way to outta hand.

There's no need to lock a thread because it has active discussion on a topic that you don't agree with.

[Dan-O]

They made this decision to gain additional revenue/exposure at the expense of cheapening the music to a huge number of their longtime fans...

1. Band writes and records song

2. Song is enjoyed

3. Song shows up in commercial

4. Song is no longer worthy of enjoyment or somehow "cheapened."

 

I don't get this at all. It's the same song. It begs the question... who is really being influenced by the advertiser? I'd say this commercial had much more influence over the folks who are calling others out for their sheep-like ability to be swayed by advertisers. My opinion of the song and the product are exactly the same today as they were before the commercial. It seems those who think less of the song or the band need to look in a mirror when they are looking for folks to accuse of being too easily influenced.

[Good Old Neon]

1. Band writes and records song

2. Song is enjoyed

3. Song shows up in commercial

4. Song is no longer worthy of enjoyment or somehow "cheapened."

 

I don't get this at all. It's the same song. It begs the question... who is really being influenced by the advertiser? I'd say this commercial had much more influence over the folks who are calling others out for their sheep-like ability to be swayed by advertisers. My opinion of the song and the product are exactly the same today as they were before the commercial. It seems those who think less of the song or the band need to look in a mirror when they are looking for folks to accuse of being too easily influenced.

 

 

Chapter One of No Logo by Naomi Klein

 

http://books.guardian.co.uk/firstchapters/...,402483,00.html

[ction]

Can somehelp help build a "jnickerbot3000" so the poor guy doesn't have to log in every few hours to post the link to that book?

[Good Old Neon]

Can somehelp help build a "jnickerbot3000" so the poor guy doesn't have to log in every few hours to post the link to that book?

 

Maybe someone could design a full line of bot

[cryptique]

Maybe someone could design a full line of bot

[ction]

Maybe someone could design a full line of bot

[Dan-O]

No Logo by Naomi Klein

Stay tuned for her next book: "More Ranting From a Socialist Wacko"