In Praise of Selling out...in the Chicago Reader

[oceanman]

Self Portrait is one of my favorites.

[thebur]

This is the only problem I have, and it is strictly personal. I do not begrudge Wilco the extra VW money to feed their children and get them a good edumacation, however, my first night in New York Sunday I was watching "Frasier" and saw the commercial featuring "Sky Blue Sky". When they played that song live all I could thing about was the episode of "Frasier", and it wasn't a very good one.

 

 

See now I have had the opposite reaction to Wilco on TV. I am I guess what you would call an old fan (started listening with Being There, and have everything blah blah, went to 9 shows including the most recent I have attended and possibly best at Merriweather Post Pavillion) and I really have no objection to the commercials. I agree with the sentiment that if you do not let selling your music dictate the way you make your music, then you aren't selling out, you just happen to make good stuff that people like listening to. That brings me to my second point.

 

I LOVE listening to Wilco, the CD's and mp3's get far more play than anything in my catalogue to the tune of 75 or so iPod plays already for SBS. Anytime I hear Jeff's voice, my day is a little better, and the commercials are no exception. Yeah, maybe now a whole bunch more people will get into a band that I love and think is the most talented group of musicians playing together on the planet. Did I like being one of a handful of Wilco fans back in 1997? Yes. Would I like to see Wilco get more recognition and go down in History as a band that is a full-fledged rock legend? Yes. If it were up to me they would be right on par with the Beatles, Stones, and other acts that are recognized as those type of artists.

 

I don't know why we seem to want to have everything to ourselves, but to me that is one of the greediest and most selfish things we could say to our favorite artists. Yes, I love you work, and I really hope you are very unsuccessful in getting other people to hear it.

[bjorn_skurj]

The commercials are not bad, for commercials, but I'm starting to get a bit sick of them.

[LouieB]

See now I have had the opposite reaction to Wilco on TV. I am I guess what you would call an old fan (started listening with Being There, and have everything blah blah, went to 9 shows including the most recent I have attended and possibly best at Merriweather Post Pavillion) and I really have no objection to the commercials. I agree with the sentiment that if you do not let selling your music dictate the way you make your music, then you aren't selling out, you just happen to make good stuff that people like listening to. That brings me to my second point.

 

I LOVE listening to Wilco, the CD's and mp3's get far more play than anything in my catalogue to the tune of 75 or so iPod plays already for SBS. Anytime I hear Jeff's voice, my day is a little better, and the commercials are no exception. Yeah, maybe now a whole bunch more people will get into a band that I love and think is the most talented group of musicians playing together on the planet. Did I like being one of a handful of Wilco fans back in 1997? Yes. Would I like to see Wilco get more recognition and go down in History as a band that is a full-fledged rock legend? Yes. If it were up to me they would be right on par with the Beatles, Stones, and other acts that are recognized as those type of artists.

 

I don't know why we seem to want to have everything to ourselves, but to me that is one of the greediest and most selfish things we could say to our favorite artists. Yes, I love you work, and I really hope you are very unsuccessful in getting other people to hear it.

I hate to say this..but this makes no sense....how do commercials make Wilco the greatest rock band in the history of music? We all agree Wilco is a great band no matter when we got into them. I just don't understand how commercial exposure enables them to become as great as the Beatles. I don't even necessarily agree that more people will find out about Wilco through these VW commericials; it isn't like they announce who singing or anything.

 

LouieB

[tongue-tied]

Wilco is well represented online and in music mags, but until recently they practically didn't exist on television. It was smart of them to find themselves a spot where they could be heard by more people than ever. I don't have the desire for Wilco, or any band I like, to have limited success just so I can feel in on something secret or have them playing intimate venues forever (hell, McCartney just played Amoeba, and the White Stripes have been playing remote places in Canada. Those in it for the music [you know, the good bands] don't seem content with just stadium shows). So I don't worry about that. Nor do I think the Wilcos are a greedy bunch of people who have intentionally changed their music for profit.

 

However, I still get that odd sensation that music and commercialism don't mix well (like a bad black and white cookie). It has never been an earth shattering issue for me, and some commercials are enjoyable (pink moon Vdub, picture book). The Wilco commercials have only been mildly irritating, mainly because it doesn't fit, almost like my CD player went off over the TV speakers on accident. The new Pogues car commercial is the worst I've seen in awhile, my brain couldn't handle it. The fact is though, whether it's good or bad, inoffensive or offensive, if its a song you strongly like, you'll never forget the commercial. I think that's the real thing that can bother people. Whether or not the artist is still operating for a higher purpose and not solely cash can only be guessed at. That an artist gives an OK for a product to be associated with their music can be seen as an insensitive act towards his/her/their fans.

 

So truth be told, I've lost some respect for Tweedy, not all but I think this was a mistake. I sense a contradiction in him singing about his art belonging to everybody and then cashing the check from VW. I certainly hope it was a big one. I don't know if it has really changed my reaction to the record, seeing how it has happened almost concurrently to when I got it, and I still enjoy the record quite a bit. Too bad that they saw this as the best way to promote their music, but life goes on.

[froggie]

i was wondering if any of these commercials are up on line so us foreigners can see what the fuss is about??

[Spawn's dad]

[OOO]

better yet: http://www.vw.com/ they are all there, just takes a while to load.

[awatt]

See the light!

[W(TF)]

The Wilco commercials have only been mildly irritating, mainly because it doesn't fit, almost like my CD player went off over the TV speakers on accident. The new Pogues car commercial is the worst I've seen in awhile, my brain couldn't handle it. The fact is though, whether it's good or bad, inoffensive or offensive, if its a song you strongly like, you'll never forget the commercial. I think that's the real thing that can bother people. Whether or not the artist is still operating for a higher purpose and not solely cash can only be guessed at. That an artist gives an OK for a product to be associated with their music can be seen as an insensitive act towards his/her/their fans. -snip-

 

I dunno....tv commercials are all pure marketing BS, so I don't care to analyze them too closely. But the Wilco VW ads - tho irritating like ALL ads are - do seem to be in "ok" taste. When Tweedy said, "Some of us even drive them", I think that was a shot accross the bow of the good ship Led Zeppelin, who sold some of their best songs to Cadillac. I have no way of proving this, it's just a hunch.

 

Now obviously, the surviving members of LZ probably DO get chauffered around in Cadillac limos, etc. But c'mon, Cadillac has always represented American Excess.

 

I know, I know...it's all image and BS "car culture", and I may be splitting hairs. But I think there is a difference, and Wilco have at least tried to execute 'a sellout in good conscience'. VW was a decent choice IMHO.

[owhatevernevermind]

Hey, I just joined on account of this VW thing, it's been bugging me for awhile so I've got to get it off my chest. First of all the question of whether or not they sold out, is mute. This is the most egregious sell-out in the history of rock and roll, when you consider the fact that Tweedy got to where he was by singing Woody Guthrie songs, when you consider the song "Kicking Television" has the lyrics "Stop Buying Things" when Tweedy has said in his acoustic concerts such things as "let's all quit buying things and live on baked beans and shit," and when you consider the Tweedy throws a fit if you talk over his sacred songs in concert because we're supposed to be having a spiritual oneness union, or whatever. On top of that they sold the whole freakin' record, not just the odd b-side. So if there is a term "sell out" that has some sort of meaning, this episode definitely needs to defined by that term. In fact the sheer obviousness of it serves to hide the fact, like in the military, the lies they tell you are so far from the actual reality that your mind doesn't have the ability to respond to them. I understand why people may want to split hairs about it and not face the fact of that, because the music of Wilco has played a major role in my life for the last few years and it has been the soundtrack for a lot of personal suffering. But when you see the music of "Sky Blue Sky" used in such a cheesy manner to sell yet another meaningless material object, it sort of feels like your heart's getting torn out. Yes, we should take music less seriously, it is only a commercial, but it's one more sacred thing, one more beautiful thing that has been co-opted by the corporate buy-sell mentality. I really want to let this go, but really, without that faith that what Tweedy's talking about in the Sky Blue Sky comes very deep level of personal suffering and trying to find a way to make it through, it's just 4 chords being played in a pretty standard fashion. You can't just turn off the fact that that song doesn't mean anything more now than a nice drive in A volkswagen. I'd forget the whole thing, if they hadn't sold that song.

Sorry for ranting, what I really wanted to ask was, does anyone know whether it worked? Somewhere on here I read that the record had dropped to #23, how about Itune sales? Has this really helped their revenue?

[awatt]

Oh how I wish this issue was mute!

[mountain bed]

Hey, I just joined on account of this VW thing, it's been bugging me for awhile so I've got to get it off my chest. First of all the question of whether or not they sold out, is mute. This is the most egregious sell-out in the history of rock and roll, when you consider the fact that Tweedy got to where he was by singing Woody Guthrie songs, when you consider the song "Kicking Television" has the lyrics "Stop Buying Things" when Tweedy has said in his acoustic concerts such things as "let's all quit buying things and live on baked beans and shit," and when you consider the Tweedy throws a fit if you talk over his sacred songs in concert because we're supposed to be having a spiritual oneness union, or whatever. On top of that they sold the whole freakin' record, not just the odd b-side. So if there is a term "sell out" that has some sort of meaning, this episode definitely needs to defined by that term. In fact the sheer obviousness of it serves to hide the fact, like in the military, the lies they tell you are so far from the actual reality that your mind doesn't have the ability to respond to them. I understand why people may want to split hairs about it and not face the fact of that, because the music of Wilco has played a major role in my life for the last few years and it has been the soundtrack for a lot of personal suffering. But when you see the music of "Sky Blue Sky" used in such a cheesy manner to sell yet another meaningless material object, it sort of feels like your heart's getting torn out. Yes, we should take music less seriously, it is only a commercial, but it's one more sacred thing, one more beautiful thing that has been co-opted by the corporate buy-sell mentality. I really want to let this go, but really, without that faith that what Tweedy's talking about in the Sky Blue Sky comes very deep level of personal suffering and trying to find a way to make it through, it's just 4 chords being played in a pretty standard fashion. You can't just turn off the fact that that song doesn't mean anything more now than a nice drive in A volkswagen. I'd forget the whole thing, if they hadn't sold that song.

Sorry for ranting, what I really wanted to ask was, does anyone know whether it worked? Somewhere on here I read that the record had dropped to #23, how about Itune sales? Has this really helped their revenue?

Hey, do you know a dude that goes by the name of "...." ?

 

Just curious.

[owhatevernevermind]

Hey, do you know a dude that goes by the name of "...." ?

 

Just curious.

 

What's that supposed to mean?

[mountain bed]

What's that supposed to mean?

Ok, I was being sort of smarmy there. Sorry man. But seriously, go grab you a beer (or three), pop some corn, and dig in:

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=28843

 

and then:

 

http://forums.viachicago.org/index.php?showtopic=29059

 

and THEN take two aspirin!!

[Edie]

What's that supposed to mean?

 

There are two threads totalling about 100 pages further down within this "Just a Fan" forum, if you look for them. I would post the links but it's too easy to find them. They are both locked. One was started by srmt, better known as Sue Tweedy.

 

I suggest reading some/all of the posts in them before continuing here. There has been a lot of ground covered, and much of it is thoughtful discourse.

[Beltmann]

You can't just turn off the fact that that song doesn't mean anything more now than a nice drive in A volkswagen. I'd forget the whole thing, if they hadn't sold that song.

I understand that perhaps you cannot turn off the association, but please don't tell me that I can't. If there's any "fact" here for me, it's that I do not think of VW when I hear "Sky Blue Sky." And if there's another "fact" here for me, it's that the ad campaign hasn't changed a single damn thing about any of the songs. To my ears, they all still retain the same artistic meanings they had two months ago.

 

In the same way Tweedy encourages listeners to choose their own relationships with his songs, I am perfectly capable of choosing not to have a significant relationship with the commercials.

[Edie]

Sorry, couldn't resist. This post was just too juicy.

 

Hey, I just joined on account of this VW thing,

 

Really. This is interesting in that it took Wilco's music appearing in a commercial to compel you to join VC? You have nothing else of value to say otherwise?

 

This is the most egregious sell-out in the history of rock and roll

 

What are you comparing "this sellout" to?

 

I understand why people may want to split hairs about it and not face the fact of that, because the music of Wilco has played a major role in my life for the last few years and it has been the soundtrack for a lot of personal suffering.

 

I bet the band didn't know that their music has "played a major role in your life", which to you meant that they couldn't do what they wanted to with their own songs. I certainly didn't know that (since you only just joined to bitch).

[mountain bed]

Believe it or not, I was setting around having beers with some friends over the weekend & the subject of the VW ads came up. We talked about the "biggest sellout" & came to the conclusion that Eric Clapton's ( a former alcoholic, who once was on record as saying "Alcohol is worse for people than heroin" or some such) shilling for Michelob beer in the '80's was the most egregious sellout ever in RXR.

[owhatevernevermind]

Believe it or not, I was setting around having beers with some friends over the weekend & the subject of the VW ads came up. We talked about the "biggest sellout" & came to the conclusion that Eric Clapton's ( a former alcoholic, who once was on record as saying "Alcohol is worse for people than heroin" or some such) shilling for Michelob beer in the '80's was the most egregious sellout ever in RXR.

 

You could make the same argument about Al Green selling his song to Miller, since he was an ordained preacher. But these guys were old and on the wane, and their whole schtick wasn't anti-alchohol. Tweedy, on the other hand, has made his whole career on being totally for the music, and being anti-commercialistic, then sold their whole new album lock stock and barrel. It makes you sort of wonder if it's an admission that Wilco is spent as a creative force.

 

And I'm really sorry I joined only to bitch. Before all this, I was totally content to enjoy Wilco in piece and tranquility and I've never taken part in a chat site before. But Wilco's the one band who might read some of this and think about it, so I've got to speak my piece. We've got to stop these guys before they start doing theme songs for tv shows. By the way, anyone see that Jeep Liberty thing, where they send out singer-songwriters with a guitar to do an instant concert, and then afterwards give a demonstration of all the Liberty's neat functions? Do you want to see Wilco out in the parking lot doing the same thing?

[tongue-tied]

Tweedy, on the other hand, has made his whole career on being totally for the music, and being anti-commercialistic, then sold their whole new album lock stock and barrel.

 

correct

incorrect

incorrect

[owhatevernevermind]

correct

incorrect

incorrect

 

Excuse me, all the songs except the ones volkswagen didn't want. If you would like to elaborate on the rest of that, in the sense that Wilco is not based on being anti-commercialistic, please do. I don't mean not wanting to sell tickets and albums, because everyone has to make a living. Maybe I should anti-consumeristic. I mean, whenever they've made any sort of political statement in their music or otherwise, when has it not been anti-consumerism, let's-all-live-together-in-a-commune type talk. For example, STOP BUYING THINGS in their song Kicking Television, the words at the bottom of the communique they released on the topic.

Unless this whole time they meant we're all suffering and heartbroken because we can't afford Mercedes knock-offs. What is the message of the commercial which uses "you are my face?" This material object is so valuable to me that I'm willing to kill someone rather than let them touch it, regardless of the fact they are only trying to do their jobs. On top of that, it's preying on this sense of deprived masculinity alot of us may feel these days. Buy this phony Mercedes, threaten the valet guy with your key, and maybe you're girl will finally think of you as a real man. Yes, it's just one (stupid) commercial but multiply that by the millions we're bombarded with, and maybe you start to understand why we're stuck in an insane war, why we have the highest levels of violent crime of any modernised, (and a lot non-modernised), why we have more people in prison than Russia and China combined. And Wilco put their stamp of approval on that for what? Next time Tweedy starts ranting about how Americans buy too much stuff, which he has been known to do, Are you really going to take him seriously?

Fergie, who never made any secret of her desire for cash, at least figured out a way to get her fans a free concert.

[bobbob1313]

I always took "Kicking Television" to be very tounge in cheek. Maybe I've been listening to it wrong.

 

 

And I didn't know Volkswagen, a german company, represented everything that was wrong with America. So the Cabriot represents the health care system, the Passat is the war, and the Jetta represents immigration?

 

Also, how did Wilco, by allowing a few songs to be licensed in a commercial, put their stamp of aproval on the war in Iraq?

[darkstar]

Holy Shit it's the reincarnation of ...

 

This is getting to be like a really bad zombie movie

[bobbob1313]

This is getting to be like a really bad zombie movie

 

No such thing.