A Thread for Musical Blasphemy you Truly Believe

[bobbob1313]

I stand by all my statements, and although I did not intend any of them to be personally offensive to anyone on this board, it's worth noting that I also did not directly attack any of the previous individuals who posted. Yet somehow my post apparently warrants a direct attack on me. Hmm, if stating my personal opinions in a thread called "Musical Blasphemy You Truly Believe" makes me a douchebag, then there must be a lot of us douchebags in here.

 

A-man's points are well taken, especially this one:

I guess the answer is No, eh?

 

Just because someone calls something "poetry" doesn't mean I have to appreciate or enjoy it, or even acknowledge it as such. I have a Master's Degree in English, but I don't subject myself to cheesy Poetry Slams that are basically rap-without-the-rhythm-section. Know why? Because I think they suck. Besides, I thought this thread was supposed to be about MUSIC, not just vocals or lyrics. From a musical standpoint, I believe - and will continue to believe - that rap/hip-hop = crap. And sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think this way out of mere ignorance. I've been exposed (er, subjected) to a huge amount of this stuff for over 20 years, from Paul's Boutique to Snoop Dogg to friggin' Vanilla Ice, and I find it all to be utterly without merit. That opinion has not changed from Extra Exposure. You may not get a lot of solace out of my informed opinion, but that's not my role here. I also don't much like opera. If YOU don't like opera either, does that mean you simply haven't listened to enough of it, and are just another simpleton? I don't think so. Perhaps there's just a little Pot Kettle Black aspect to this charge of douchbaggery?

 

And I truly resent the blanket statement about "musical closemindedness and downright ignorance," especially coming from someone who not only doesn't even know me but also one who fancies himself a self-styled critic with the "power" (oooh!) to regulate others' posts as an Admin. I'm a very musically curious person with an ever-expanding collection of CDs and I'm pretty knowledgeable on a variety of musical genres which are of interest to me. Do you expect me to listen to a few thousand more rap artists, instead of listening to what I enjoy, just to see if I change my mind about the genre? I think I'll take a pass. I'm perfectly fine enjoying my rock, folk, jazz, blues, country, etc.

 

I'm glad so many of us are passionate about music, but I think you have to realize that it's a little easier for some of us to cross the line than it is for others. I'm not an admin on this board, and I'm aware that it's a thankless job ... but if I were one, I'd like to think I'd have the balls to act like a responsible adult and not attack people personally whose considered opinions are different from mine. Also, it's worth remembering that this thread is not called "Obscure Indie Bands I Love" or "What Do We All Agree On?" Govern yourself accordingly. Oh, and feel free to heavily edit my post if it cuts a little too close to the bone. Or you could just grow the fuck up.

 

 

I'm almost positive Solace doesn't edit posts unless there is like, heavily offensive stuff not relating to the topic at hand, so that's a very stupid thing to say.

 

Other than that, whatever, it's your opinion. I happen to think there is lot's of rap music that has tons of musically redeeming qualities, but if you don't, whatever. Say what you want about Kanye, but his use of soul music on his first album and strings on his second make for very, very good musical moments. It sort of blows my mind that you can say you've listened to all of this hip hop and not found a single redeeming song, as you claim. I'm not doubting you, it's just very difficult to believe about any genre.

[Modified Bear]

Bob Dylan has become Wesley Willis.

 

By which I mean, Modern Times sounds like Dylan rambling aimlessly and amelodically over laughably canned and generic "ROCK AND ROLL MUSIC"

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I'm almost positive Solace doesn't edit posts, so that's a pretty stupid thing to say.

 

I don't have any direct knowledge about how any of the admins on this board operate. That's my (very understandable) ignorance. There is a difference between ignorance about something and actual stupidity. The former is what I just demonstrated. The latter is what you just demonstrated.

 

I happen to think there is lot's of rap music that has tons of musically redeeming qualities, but if you don't, whatever.

Thanks for the reminder. There are many great Miles Davis trumpet riffs that have been sampled into rap songs. They are great ... but the rap songs are not great just because they sampled them.

 

Peace, yo!

[bobbob1313]

I don't have any direct knowledge about how any of the admins on this board operate. That's my (very understandable) ignorance. There is a difference between ignorance about something and actual stupidity. The former is what I just demonstrated. The latter is what you just demonstrated.

 

I'd rather not get into this on this thread, but you outright accused Solace of editting posts not for moderation purposes but simply because he disagrees with them. That's not ignorance, that's just saying things for the sake of saying things because you don't know anything about him. You can be ignorant about something and also express a dumb, unnecessary opinion on it. That is what you demonstrated.

 

Bah, whatever. This thread is so far gone at this point.

[bjorn_skurj]

Also, it's worth remembering that this thread is not called "Obscure Indie Bands I Love" or "What Do We All Agree On?" Govern yourself accordingly.

Quoted for truth.

[Sir Stewart]

Thanks for the reminder. There are many great Miles Davis trumpet riffs that have been sampled into rap songs. They are great ... but the rap songs are not great just because they sampled them.

Really? I haven't heard those - who are you talking about? (Given the tone of the thread at this point I should make clear that I am actually curious and not baiting)

[bobbob1313]

Really? I haven't heard those - who are you talking about? (Given the tone of the thread at this point I should make clear that I am actually curious and not baiting)

 

You know what I'd like? Some Kleptones-esque mish mashing of some Miles and hip hop. Lay down like 2 or 3 vocal tracks over "Flamenco Sketches" or something. That could be awesome.

[MattZ]

Blasphemy:

 

I believe that when people refer to the album by its shortened name, they should refer to it as Sgt Pepper or Pepper. Not Sgt Pepper's or Pepper's.

[bobbob1313]

Blaspheme:

 

"Mr. Jones & Me" > "Me & Mrs. Jones"

[Sir Stewart]

Blasphemy:

 

I believe that when people refer to the album by its shortened name, they should refer to it as Sgt Pepper or Pepper. Not Sgt Pepper's or Pepper's.

PHEW!

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I'd rather not get into this on this thread, but you outright accused Solace of editting posts not for moderation purposes but simply because he disagrees with them.

 

Is English your second language? What I said was

 

the "power" (oooh!) to regulate others' posts as an Admin.

 

and

 

feel free to heavily edit my post if it cuts a little too close to the bone

 

There's no accusation there. There's a discussion of "authority" and an invitation to have at it. Am I wrong? Is it literally impossible for admins to delete or alter posts? I don't know, and I don't even give a shit. I said what I said out of pure bitter sarcasm toward someone who should be moderating responsibly, not attacking others by calling them ignorant and closed-minded. I haven't accused anybody of doing anything other than name-calling.

 

I don't know why I should feel obligated to you in the first place, since you can't even spell editing. Now, bugger off.

[bobbob1313]

Is English your second language? What I said was

 

 

 

and

 

 

 

There's no accusation there. There's a discussion of "authority" and an invitation to have at it. Am I wrong? Is it literally impossible for admins to delete or alter posts? I don't know, and I don't even give a shit. I said what I said out of pure bitter sarcasm toward someone who should be moderating responsibly, not attacking others by calling them ignorant and closed-minded. I haven't accused anybody of doing anything other than name-calling.

 

I don't know why I should feel obligated to you in the first place, since you can't even spell editing. Now, bugger off.

 

...

 

You know what, forget it. You seem to be looking for a fight. I've seen you do it before, and I'm not really interested in it today.

[MattZ]

PHEW!

 

great minds.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

You know what, forget it. You seem to be looking for a fight. I've seen you do it before, and I'm not really interested in it today.

Right, you were just interested in it yesterday.

 

Here's your original response to my post.

 

I think it was his way of going about it. Like the "Rap=CRap" bit. That's stuff I used to say when I was in 8th grade and was afraid of listening to hip hop because I am white.

 

And I'm looking for a fight? You may want to look up passive/aggressive behavior.

 

By the way, defending oneself is not looking for a fight. I never come on here looking for a fight with anyone. I posted my opinions in a thread that was set up to be inflammatory to some, and was attacked by you and solass. Notice I never attacked anyone ... all the people who think that the bands I like suck got NO RESPONSE from me. Yet when I did the EXACT SAME THING as they did, assholes like you and solass are compelled to critique me personally. Well, you can both fuck right off. That's not looking for a fight. That's saying, I'm not bending over for you or anyone. And if you don't like it, you shouldn't have posted your response. YOU were looking for a fight.

 

And there was never a need for it. Do all the people ragging on Pet Sounds, Bob Dylan, Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd have to put up with this bullshit? Did anyone take any of this shit seriously until this point?

 

I'm done. I have a job and a mortgage. I've got stuff to do. You can kiss my hairy ass.

[LouieB]

For what it's worth, Mr. Heartbreak, I've got your back on the rap/hip-hop question.

 

I will acknowledge that I do occasionally listen to a couple of Public Enemy albums (that came out around twenty years ago), but I haven't heard much of anything since then that I've thought was worth a damn. There have been a few stray tracks that I've enjoyed for various reasons, but the entire catalog of rap and hip-hop could disappear from the earth and I really wouldn't miss it in the least.

 

Just my opinion. Please carry on with the blaspheming.

Uh yea...exactly....I own some PE, but little else in the rap genre. Most of it sounds like crap (and reads like crap as well.) It isn't that hip-hop sucks by default, it is just that it has crawled up its own ass so far, little of it is worthwhile.

 

As an urban dweller I am particularly (not) fond of the cars blowing this shit out their speakers at all times of day and night, all of it sounding interchangeable and obnoxious...

 

LouieB

[TheMaker]

I also think hip-hop and rap are crap. Not adding flames to the fire, believe me, just being honest. I don't even like Public Enemy.

 

Further controversy!:

 

I think it's bad enough that middle-class black kids are listening to this stuff, but at least they can squint and see how it might relate to their experience; when white kids listen to it, I can't help but feel they're contributing to the modern minstrelsy.

[solace]

I stand by all my statements, and although I did not intend any of them to be personally offensive to anyone on this board, it's worth noting that I also did not directly attack any of the previous individuals who posted. Yet somehow my post apparently warrants a direct attack on me. Hmm, if stating my personal opinions in a thread called "Musical Blasphemy You Truly Believe" makes me a douchebag, then there must be a lot of us douchebags in here.

 

A-man's points are well taken, especially this one:

I guess the answer is No, eh?

 

Just because someone calls something "poetry" doesn't mean I have to appreciate or enjoy it, or even acknowledge it as such. I have a Master's Degree in English, but I don't subject myself to cheesy Poetry Slams that are basically rap-without-the-rhythm-section. Know why? Because I think they suck. Besides, I thought this thread was supposed to be about MUSIC, not just vocals or lyrics. From a musical standpoint, I believe - and will continue to believe - that rap/hip-hop = crap. And sorry to burst your bubble, but I don't think this way out of mere ignorance. I've been exposed (er, subjected) to a huge amount of this stuff for over 20 years, from Paul's Boutique to Snoop Dogg to friggin' Vanilla Ice, and I find it all to be utterly without merit. That opinion has not changed from Extra Exposure. You may not get a lot of solace out of my informed opinion, but that's not my role here. I also don't much like opera. If YOU don't like opera either, does that mean you simply haven't listened to enough of it, and are just another simpleton? I don't think so. Perhaps there's just a little Pot Kettle Black aspect to this charge of douchbaggery?

 

And I truly resent the blanket statement about "musical closemindedness and downright ignorance," especially coming from someone who not only doesn't even know me but also one who fancies himself a self-styled critic with the "power" (oooh!) to regulate others' posts as an Admin. I'm a very musically curious person with an ever-expanding collection of CDs and I'm pretty knowledgeable on a variety of musical genres which are of interest to me. Do you expect me to listen to a few thousand more rap artists, instead of listening to what I enjoy, just to see if I change my mind about the genre? I think I'll take a pass. I'm perfectly fine enjoying my rock, folk, jazz, blues, country, etc.

 

I'm glad so many of us are passionate about music, but I think you have to realize that it's a little easier for some of us to cross the line than it is for others. I'm not an admin on this board, and I'm aware that it's a thankless job ... but if I were one, I'd like to think I'd have the balls to act like a responsible adult and not attack people personally whose considered opinions are different from mine. Also, it's worth remembering that this thread is not called "Obscure Indie Bands I Love" or "What Do We All Agree On?" Govern yourself accordingly. Oh, and feel free to heavily edit my post if it cuts a little too close to the bone. Or you could just grow the fuck up.

where did i ever attack you personally?

 

is saying you're musically closeminded and ignorant (that would also be musically ignorant, i don't care about your take on other subjects here) an attack? i don't see it as one, i see it as my opinion of your take on music, sure it's only based on the statements you've made in this thread, but i'm entitled to say that am i not?

 

and don't bring any of this admin bullshit into this thread, that has nothing to do with anything here, i'd tell it to your face too, doesn't matter about any silly 'power trip' or whatever.

 

and i said there's douchebaggery going on in this thread, that's different from calling someone a douchebag. we all do or say stupid shit that could be classified as "douchebaggery" from time to time, i was attacking the actions not the person.

 

and your statement about the hip hop you've been exposed to proves my thought further, is that the hip hop/rap you've been exposed to is mostly all mainstream. if that's all the hip hop/rap i'd have been exposed to, i might feel somewhat similiary (although i could at least give credo to Grandmaster Flash, Run DMC, the Beasties, etc. as the true innovators, even if i happened to dislike the genre.) there's a difference between dismissing a complete genre outright just based on principal and being able to say you don't like something but can understand what others find interesting about it or have an admiration for music you personally don't like. and that's why i called you close-minded. if your statement was meant to be an exaggerated blanket statement, fine, but you didn't really say anything in your followups that would change my initial assessment. like you said, you brought up Opera... i can't stand Opera, but i'm not gonna say it's not music and that every single piece of Opera is without any musical merit whatsoever, that would just be musically ignorant and closeminded of me to say so.

 

honestly, if you'd just said you don't find rap to be music, i probably wouldn't have even cared, but you pulled out the "rap = crap" comment, which is one of the oldest tricks in the book and often spoken by racist people (not saying you're racist, but it's a common comment from bigots)

 

edit: well i was ABOUT to give you the benefit of the doubt with your above post, but after reading your responses to Chris further down in this thread, it's clear that you pride yourself on being an asshole, so i have no problem calling a spade a spade. you can think i'm an "ass" all you want, i've met enough folks on this board in person who know me personally to not really care otherwise.

[solace]

funny thing is, i'm not even *THAT* big of hip hop fan... i mean compared to the average rock listener sure, but not compared to most of my music nerd friends.

[MattZ]

De La Soul is Dead is better than 3Ft High and Rising.

[Jerrygarciaparra]

The Hold Steady and Okkervill River are dull.

 

I've tried and tried to like Yo La Tengo and I just don't get them

[solace]

For what it's worth, Mr. Heartbreak, I've got your back on the rap/hip-hop question.

 

I will acknowledge that I do occasionally listen to a couple of Public Enemy albums (that came out around twenty years ago), but I haven't heard much of anything since then that I've thought was worth a damn. There have been a few stray tracks that I've enjoyed for various reasons, but the entire catalog of rap and hip-hop could disappear from the earth and I really wouldn't miss it in the least.

 

My take on all this is that this is a thread for blasphemy. It self-identifies its content as shocking. If you're shocked by it, good -- that's the intent. This is not a thread for debating the merits of certain artists, songs, or genres, and it's especially not a thread in which to drop words like "ignorance." If you don't like what someone says here ... tough shit, and keep it to yourself.

 

Just my opinion. Please carry on with the blaspheming.

 

but you really don't have his back if you say you at least enjoyed Public Enemy or any sort of rap throughout musical history. his statement was that ANY and ALL rap music ever and in the future is without any musical merit whatsoever (i'd be curious what he'd think if he saw the Roots live) and is all "crap"

 

your statement is fine, and i know plenty of folks like yourself. hell, i didn't care for much rap/hip hop after The Chronic, even though i loved a lot of it from the Beasties, Run DMC, Public Enemy, N.W.A., Ice T, etc.

 

it wasn't until i moved to Minneapolis in '99 and discovered their incredible underground (and not-so-underground as of late) hip hop scene that i really got back into it.

[Synthesizer Patel]

De La Soul is Dead is better than 3Ft High and Rising.

 

the best of it is better than the best of 3ft high, yeah. but, i think i prefer 3ft high over all.

 

can everyone just take some time out and watch this and then tell me both that rap isn't good, but on the other hand modern rap is nowhere near as good as the old skool stuff.

[solace]

can everyone just take some time out and watch this and then tell me both that rap isn't good, but on the other hand modern rap is nowhere near as good as the old skool stuff.

now that i can totally agree with... BUT, there's a ton of incredible hip hop out there if you're willing to dig a bit.

 

Cyne's 'Evolution Fight' from 2005 is one of the best hip hop records of the last 10 years, and K-Os' 'Joyful Rebellion' from 2004 is up there for me as well.

 

p.s. Chuck D talked up Stetsasonic a TON at the talk show thing i saw last weekend, he was like "everyone always talks about the Roots being the first/best live hop hop band, but Stetsasonic were doing that shit back in the 80's".

[Synthesizer Patel]

now that i can totally agree with... BUT, there's a ton of incredible hip hop out there if you're willing to dig a bit.

 

Cyne's 'Evolution Fight' from 2005 is one of the best hip hop records of the last 10 years, and K-Os' 'Joyful Rebellion' from 2004 is up there for me as well.

 

p.s. Chuck D talked up Stetsasonic a TON at the talk show thing i saw last weekend, he was like "everyone always talks about the Roots being the first/best live hop hop band, but Stetsasonic were doing that shit back in the 80's".

 

i think you're probably right about there being good modern hip hop, but i'm far to much into discovering old folk acts and stuff like that to have time to search out the good stuff for myself. what was good in the past was that the good stuff wasn't so hard to find. so, i guess really what i meant was that the popular stuff from the past is better than the modern popular stuff.

[solace]

oh god yes... Mainstream rap is just AWFUL these days, and has been since the late 90's

 

i'm talking about shit like Three 6 Mafia, Mike Jones, etc. and most anything on the No Limit label. or even 50 cent... dude has a few ok tracks, but is a horrible rapper.

 

i'd never disagree with anyone who said rap is terrible based on what makes up the mainstream these days.