New and Improved 3-ply election thread...

[fatheadfred]

I obviously agreed with Obama more tonight, but as far as accomplishing what they needed to goes, I think it was pretty much a tie.

 

Major LOLs at the Fox News poll that had 82% saying McCain won.

 

This is how I feel.

 

And yeah the galvanization is evident w/ the Fox text msg poll. On the other side, Tweety did another 180 to retrieve viewers. Newsflash Chris: peeps are watching you to galvanize as well. You ain't pickin up any undecideds or new viewers with this approach. I love his enthusiasm but his drastic push to 'unbiased' is painful to watch.

[mountain bed]

I thought for the most part this came out a draw - but just the fact that the focus was foriegn policy (definitely McCain's supposed turf) and Obama didn't get smoked (at ALL) is a very good sign for Barack. Both guys were able to repeat their mantra enough times to get the point across - Barack: McCain=W, and McCain: Obama=naive. Right or wrong, this is how this thing is being framed imo.

 

Barack seemed to have the edge in regards to the economy, and John seemed to have a somewhat smaller edge with the foriegn policy. This isn't necessarily how I saw it, but how I would think it might play with those sitting on the fence. A very difficult thing to gauge to be sure.

 

The pressure was certainly ON. Is it just me, or did Barack seem a little more tense than his usual cool self? Although he was succinct with his responses (not "professorial" thankfully) he seemed to be a bit more hurried than his usual demeanor. McCain was a bit more subdued but that actually didn't seem like an advantage for him.

 

The thing that is gonna really be something is the VP debate. I can't wait for this - it could be one of the great trainwrecks of all time, or....not. If it is at all unscripted WATCH OUT! If tightly controlled the advantage will be Biden. We've all seen him speak in the Senate and when he is on he can be a fantastic orator. The contrast will be so clearly defined that this might possibly be an election where the VP choice actually matters.

 

Of course, the Bush41/Quayle ticket won 20 years ago...

[SeattleC]

I think too much is being put on the VP debate, but it will have the highest audience for one, no doubt. The expectations on Biden are really high relative to Palin, and I think a tightly controlled debate will help Palin. Unscripted, and let Palin go at it, and that has potential for a real train wreck. Not that Biden can't put his foot in his mouth, but I think he is quick to recognize that he has. I don't expect that Palin begins to get it when her foot is in her mouth after watching the Couric interview. She's still trying to say that Alaska is a foreign policy training ground.

 

Also, why is Palin often walking somewhere scenic when she's being interviewed? Wow, it's the UN Building. Wow, it's a nice Alaskan landscape. Come on Biden, where's that interview on Chesapeake Bay or the Atlantic Coast of Deleware. That would convince me...

[ih8music]

I also thought Obama won the debate slightly - but given that i'm not at all objective about the race, that probably means McCain actually came out slightly ahead.

 

Neither one scored a damaging blow, and neither one had a major gaffe (although Barack's clumsy "I have a bracelet, too" comment was awkward as hell).

 

It was obvious what the McCain plan was going in to the debate - be dismissive, call him naive, inexperienced, etc and don't even give him the respect to look him in the eye. Make it seem like he has no business being in a foreign policy debate with you. I read this comparison somewhere - it was like that SNL skit from a ages ago where John Lovitz was Dukakis and mid-debate turns to the camera and incredulously says "I'm losing to this guy?"

 

But - to me, at least - McCain just came off as angry and annoyed. Obama was cool & confident.

 

the VP debate next week will be very interesting. One thing is for sure - if Biden is as dismissive to Palin as McCain was to Obama, he'll be branded as a sexist and she'll become the great martyr. Biden should just answer his questions and not engage Palin directly at all - it's pretty obvious that she's gonna screw something up eventually (especially if they follow the same format as tonight w/ plenty of follow-up questions).

[SeattleC]

Given everything that was a stake for him, Obama did well, I think. I'd love to see him debate Palin on readiness to be the pres.

'

I'm glad a woman is moderating the VP debate. She won't be as wowed by Sarah Palin's sexy knees. Katy Couric sure didn't seemed to be.

 

 

Don't they have to do this VP debate walking along a salmon stream or something?

[quarter23cd]

the VP debate next week will be very interesting. One thing is for sure - if Biden is as dismissive to Palin as McCain was to Obama, he'll be branded as a sexist and she'll become the great martyr.

Of course he shouldn't be smug and dismissive, ala McCain last night, but if she pulls out one her nonsensical answers she's been prone to giving in interviews lately, he needs to drop the kid gloves and go for the knockout. Don't let up because of the "sexy knees" somebody mentioned above, debating her should be no different than debating any other candidate.

[sweetheart-mine]

it seemed pretty much a wash, except that most of the time mccain was more focused than he has been for some time. he did come across as not civil, which i'd think would not be a plus, but i'm afraid it might have been. that condescension has played well for republicans in national debates as far back as i can remember. on the other hand, obama did much better in his grasp of foreign policy than i think many expected him to. that may have been the main surprise, to some, which of course will work in obama's favor.

 

one thing i look forward to in the v.p. debate is that biden, despite the occasional gaffe, can be a very knowledgeable yet easygoing speaker and has a sense of humor, including about himself. that will be different!

 

did anyone else find it exhausting to watch and listen to a dense, relentless 90+ minutes of nonstop political posturing? i barely have the energy to breathe this morning.

[Good Old Neon]

If some of the poll numbers I

[MrRain422]

All the media I'm reading this morning basically seems to say much of the same thing -- that the debate was essentially a tie, but considering the fact that foreign policy was supposed to be McCain's best area, that a tie in this debate is essentially a win for Obama. I guess that makes sense.

[bjorn_skurj]

did anyone else find it exhausting to watch and listen to a dense, relentless 90+ minutes of nonstop political posturing? i barely have the energy to breathe this morning.

Yes. And McCain needs some new material - that bears in Montana DNA joke is at least two years old.

[bobbob1313]

Do some of you guys really think Obama was any less scripted than McCain? Come on

 

The partisan shit here is so old. You guys can't even give McCain credit even a little bit. It's ridiculous...

[mountain bed]

Do some of you guys really think Obama was any less scripted than McCain? Come on

 

The partisan shit here is so old. You guys can't even give McCain credit even a little bit. It's ridiculous...

After watching umpteen stump speeches by both guys I can say I heard nothing new last night. I thought JM did ok, but my expectations were pretty low given his talks the last 12 days.

[MrRain422]

Bobbob, to be fair, you're just as predictable as everyone else here.

 

I think the implication wasn't that Obama was less scripted, just that he sounded less scripted.

[bjorn_skurj]

Obama would rip the shit out of McCain in a courtroom trial, especially since McCain ISN'T A LAWYER! Spin seems to be going Obama's way today - CNN poll finds 62 percent think O. won it.

[sweetheart-mine]

You guys can't even give McCain credit even a little bit.

i gave him credit: for being successfully disdainful and for being much more focused than he has seemed of late.

[Atticus]

If politics were a penis, the sum total of the umpteen pages of vc election thread posts would have that poor thing tired and bent squarely to the left. Give that poor peter a rest will you? Let him breathe a little.

[fatheadfred]

Do some of you guys really think Obama was any less scripted than McCain? Come on

 

The partisan shit here is so old. You guys can't even give McCain credit even a little bit. It's ridiculous...

Nyquil hangover Bob? Rrrrrrrr.

[Tweedling]

If politics were a penis, the sum total of the umpteen pages of vc election thread posts would have that poor thing tired and bent squarely to the left. Give that poor peter a rest will you? Let him breathe a little.

Let's say it is "bent squarely to the left", would that be a bad thing? You know like unhealthy or something?

[explodo]

Let's say it is "bent squarely to the left", would that be a bad thing? You know like unhealthy or something?

I think it just means VC is left handed?

[viatroy]

Let's say it is "bent squarely to the left", would that be a bad thing? You know like unhealthy or something?

 

 

maybe in penii, but not in politics.

 

I will say McCain did better than I was hoping -- I was hoping to see him go off and be as nonsensical as he's been lately. I was disturbed by the thought that his macho militaristic posturing all goes back to the fact that we left Vietnam in dishonor -- he even made that reference. He wants a big "victory", whatever that may look like in Iraq.

 

I'll take an intelligent, even-headed President anyday over one who can't get over losing 40 years ago.

[okp greg]

Have you guys seen this? McCain reportedly saying "horseshit" twice in response to obama.

[bleedorange]

Have you guys seen this? McCain reportedly saying "horseshit" twice in response to obama.

 

 

Well, every time I hear Obama speak, I mutter "horseshit" under my breath, too. Hard to blame him for that.

[quarter23cd]

Well, every time I hear Obama speak, I mutter "horseshit" under my breath, too. Hard to blame him for that.

Meh. Try doing it every day for eight fucking years when the people offering up the horseshit have actual ruling power to execute their horseshit, and while certain mavericky types do cartwheels on the sidelines with their cheerleader outfits on and practically shout "Gimme an H..."

 

Bitter? Sure. Both parties have their share of horseshit, but only one has consistently appalled me at seemingly every opportunity for longer than I can even recall at this point.

 

The reason his sneering condescension and the cynical win-at-all-cost, consequences-be-damned theatrics of the campaign, while chanting "country first", matters is because it drives home the fact that he has spent the last eight years internalizing the mindset and M.O. of the people who pulled the same bullshit against him in the 2000 primaries, back when he seemed to still have some actual credibility. He's a prime example of the "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality. Country First? Meh, he is very much "John First", and with his sneering contempt, he very much comes across like he feels he is entitled to this job.(as did Gore and Kerry, truthfully, and that perception hurt them a lot with voters) But, hey, that's to be expected, this is a campaign. But the way he's run his campaign so far...it smells like Rove, or at least has the same mindset. And that's a problem. Bush himself was never so much the root of the problem as were the people behind the scenes advising him. And St. John the Divine can't claim his righteous maverickosity while those same elements appear to be very much a part of his operation and currently, at least, running the show at his campaign. Throw the bums out.

[ih8music]

Have you guys seen this? McCain reportedly saying "horseshit" twice in response to obama.

too bad they stopped the clip there - pretty sure he was saying "of course."

[ih8music]

Of course he shouldn't be smug and dismissive, ala McCain last night, but if she pulls out one her nonsensical answers she's been prone to giving in interviews lately, he needs to drop the kid gloves and go for the knockout. Don't let up because of the "sexy knees" somebody mentioned above, debating her should be no different than debating any other candidate.

In a perfect world, I agree with you - but Biden is going to have to walk a careful line because if it looks like he's "going after" Palin that's only going to make things worse and serve as a distraction in the press. let her hang herself and let that be the lead story on Friday/over the weekend - don't make it look like you're the one fitting the noose around her neck.

 

ok, could have probably used a better analogy...