Wilco. Had Jay Bennett not left the band

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

So, how do you think the band would have progressed had Jay not left the band. This has probably been discussed, but listening to the past two Wilco albums, as well as Jay's past two solo albums, it kind of made me wonder. Would the records have even sounded the same? And obviously the lineup would be different, and (sadly) might not include Nels. So...any thoughts?

 

And for the record, Jay's latest solo album is quite splendid.

[Edie]

Hi Jay!

[lost highway]

 

Best laugh this board has given me in weeks.

[Wilco Worshipper]

 

Best laugh this board has given me in weeks.

You SURE about that?!?

[dondoboy]

Jay's new album is terrible. Sorry.

[mpolak21]

Oh what the hell, I'll actually try to answer the question at hand...

 

Once I finally "got" A Ghost is Born, and it did take about a year. I was pretty convinced Bennett had been more than adequately replaced. The songs were as good as anything Jeff had ever written. Tweedy's guitar lead guitar style was better equipped for the material than Jay's. Jim O'Rourke's production and mixing were also upgrades.

 

As a musician, it's hard to miss him. I prefer Jeff's guitar playing to Jay's. I prefer the post-Jay shows because they tend not to be dominated by one instrument (Bennett must have been in tight with the sound guy because without fail whether he was on guitar or keyboards in those days his instrument always seems about twice as loud as anything on the stage). Live Nels has been nothing short of brilliant, the same level of upgrade to the band's guitar sound as Kotche over Coomer was for their drummer's. Leroy, Pat, and Mike have all done a fine job as keyboardists for the band.

 

I am well aware that Jay gets a pretty rap, because of the documentary, his tendency to try to over explain himself in every interview, and because let's face it the guy could be a bit of a prick. With that being said, the songs he and Jeff wrote together are among the very best in the band's catalog and I can't help but occasionally wonder what might have been. With Summerteeth and Foxtrot, it's clear they were really building on something, and had they been able to patch up their differences who knows? I love the first album they made without Jay, I am not really crazy about Sky Blue Sky. There really seems to be something missing on that album for me as a listener, and it's tension. The urgency of the best songs of Being There, Summerteeth, Foxtrot, and A Ghost is Born simply isn't there. Mock the guy for quoting himself, his unfortunate decision in hairstyles, and for all that blow he did in Amsterdam, but listen to Jesus, etc, California Stars, She's a Jar, Via Chicago, Remember the Mountain Bed, Kamera, etc.. Pretty good songs aren't they?

 

I could on and on about this so I'll summarize quickly. Had Bennett left the band... Would AGIB be better? No. Would they be better live? No. Would they have written great songs? Yes. Would SBS be better? Probably.

 

--Mike

[WaronWar]

Oh what the hell, I'll actually try to answer the question at hand...

 

Once I finally "got" A Ghost is Born, and it did take about a year. I was pretty convinced Bennett had been more than adequately replaced. The songs were as good as anything Jeff had ever written. Tweedy's guitar lead guitar style was better equipped for the material than Jay's. Jim O'Rourke's production and mixing were also upgrades.

 

As a musician, it's hard to miss him. I prefer Jeff's guitar playing to Jay's. I prefer the post-Jay shows because they tend not to be dominated by one instrument (Bennett must have been in tight with the sound guy because without fail whether he was on guitar or keyboards in those days his instrument always seems about twice as loud as anything on the stage). Live Nels has been nothing short of brilliant, the same level of upgrade to the band's guitar sound as Kotche over Coomer was for their drummer's. Leroy, Pat, and Mike have all done a fine job as keyboardists for the band.

 

I am well aware that Jay gets a pretty rap, because of the documentary, his tendency to try to over explain himself in every interview, and because let's face it the guy could be a bit of a prick. With that being said, the songs he and Jeff wrote together are among the very best in the band's catalog and I can't help but occasionally wonder what might have been. With Summerteeth and Foxtrot, it's clear they were really building on something, and had they been able to patch up their differences who knows? I love the first album they made without Jay, I am not really crazy about Sky Blue Sky. There really seems to be something missing on that album for me as a listener, and it's tension. The urgency of the best songs of Being There, Summerteeth, Foxtrot, and A Ghost is Born simply isn't there. Mock the guy for quoting himself, his unfortunate decision in hairstyles, and for all that blow he did in Amsterdam, but listen to Jesus, etc, California Stars, She's a Jar, Via Chicago, Remember the Mountain Bed, Kamera, etc.. Pretty good songs aren't they?

 

I could on and on about this so I'll summarize quickly. Had Bennett left the band... Would AGIB be better? No. Would they be better live? No. Would they have written great songs? Yes. Would SBS be better? Probably.

 

--Mike

 

Couldn't agree more expect for the SBS part.

[Gewee]

Just was listening to a show from '99 that I went to at the Riveiera,... Wilco was a great back then but the level of the playing is far removed from what it is today. not that I don't like the rougher sound, but it just doesn't compar. I think the current outfit fulfills the promise of the song great song writing back then. Even songs that don't really inspire me (Impossible Germany) are played with such a great mix of passion , energy and agility that I can hang until the next one. I mean, has a Shot in the Arm ever sounded better?

[Halsey12]

Darker. With glimmers still. That was Jay's magic touch.

[pmancini100]

first of all, jay bennetts new album does NOT suck.

 

but yeah. if you listen to the yankee hotel foxtrot demos, you can hear jay holding on to that retro-aesthetic that just didnt fit the songs anymore. i love jay bennetts solo stuff and what he brought to the table, but wilco are great without him. theres no point trying to imagine it.

[thejokeexplained]

So, how do you think the band would have progressed had Jay not left the band.

 

Jeff would still be addicted to pain meds because of the massive daily headaches he would still be getting, and i'm pretty sure he would still be chain smoking. So although the band might still be producing good music; although a few more drone induced songs al la "less then you think". Our main man Jeff would not be as healthy and happy as he is today.

[LouieB]

A new album can't come soon enough....

 

LouieB

[dondoboy]

first of all, jay bennetts new album does NOT suck.

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean. Jay's new album may sound great to the twelve people who can actually stand that terrible, over-affected voice and boring lyrics.

[Basil II]

 

first of all, jay bennetts new album does NOT suck.

 

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean. Jay's new album may sound great to the twelve people who can actually stand that terrible, over-affected voice and boring lyrics.

 

 

 

sheesh..........tell us how you REALLY feel.....

 

 

-Robert

[myboyblue]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean. Jay's new album may sound great to the twelve people who can actually stand that terrible, over-affected voice and boring lyrics.

 

I'm guessing you haven't even heard it, right? Nice opinion though.

 

 

Oh, and, great thread!

[BigWheeledWagon]

I'm guessing you haven't even heard it, right? Nice opinion though.

 

 

Oh, and, great thread!

 

I'm pretty sure it's possible to hear Jay's most recent album and still not like it. I, for one, have heard it and don't particularly care for it (though I do enjoy most of his other solo efforts to varying degrees). I agree, though, that it sounds like that particular poster isn't quite willing to give Jay much of a chance. Still, sometimes an artist's voice or style grates at certain people -- there are some singers that I just can't stand no matter what they do or how many times I try to give them a chance.

 

I've often wondered as well what direction Wilco might have gone musically had Bennett been kept in the fold. I'm one of those that think that it's hard to overrate Jay's contribution to the band; however, I think that had Jay stayed part of the band, Wilco probably would have come to an end by now and Jeff would be operating as a solo artist. I also don't think that Jay would have been happy with his position in the band. He was already struggling with his role as second-fiddle, so I can't see him being able to handle Glenn's increasing contribution to the band. Still, I enjoyed what Jay added to the band and miss it. As much as I enjoy the current line-up, especially in live performance, my favorite Wilco albums all have Jay on them.

[froggie]

i liked his guitar work in the day but for some reason, i cant stomach most of his solo stuff. cajun angel is my favourite tune of his

[dondoboy]

I'm guessing you haven't even heard it, right? Nice opinion though.

 

 

Oh, and, great thread!

No, I wasted the time to download it, listen to it and drag it to the trash the next day. Time I could have spent listening to something decent.

 

And, while Jay has always gotten on my nerves as far as his songwriting goes, I always give a guy a chance. I'd love to be surprised by something he does, which is why I listened to it. But, once again, he just doesn't have the talent that he thinks he has. Maybe next time. I've got time.

[barbkm]

So glad I started listening after Jay left, so I don't have such strong feelings. I love YHF, but I love SBS just as much. Since I'm not a musician and can't really critique to music based on knowledge and skill, just my gut and heart, I've no opiniopn of pre-and post jay.

 

But -- I do agree that he's kind of a pain in the ass, or at least that how the movie made him out to be. At work, I created a description -- the Jay Bennet of the group. This person's percieved value to the group in greater than the actual value. That's horrible and mean, sorry Jay and all the Jay lovers, but, this is my opinion, how can you listend to SBS and doubt Jeff's immeasurable talent -- lyrically, musically, the sound of his voice -- that guy's got it. I know the whole band directed that album's sound, but he's the guiding voice. The only thing bad I can say about Jeff is that I wish he'd shave more.

[froggie]

> The only thing bad I can say about Jeff is that I wish he'd shave more.

 

[Guest Speed Racer]

The more I hear Jeff's work - whether in LF, GS or post-YHF Wilco albums, I hear how much of Jay's songwriting was in the band. And I love his contributions to the band. I'm really glad I understand that now, because for a long time I was 100% on the Jay is Worthless train. Now, I really do appreciate what he brought to Wilco.

 

That being said, if he didn't leave Wilco when he did, I honestly don't believe the band would still be around. I say this not based on his musical contributions but on his and Jeff's relationship.

 

I don't like Jay's solo work at all. Part of it has to do with the lyrics, his affection, part of it is his voice (someone here once mentioned that his vocal contributions to Venus Stopped the Train sound like Cookie Monster, and I haven't been able to shake that image since), and the other part is that his production sounds like 40 - 50 tracks funneled to sound as if it were only 4 instruments with 3 effects - total overload.

 

Jeff and Jay are musicians that produce their best work with the help of an antithetic collaborator - someone whose muse pushes the other's idea in the opposite direction. Jay is an absolute freight train on his own, plowing through every road block and opportunity for moderation. He is an excellent producer and wonderful, wonderful pop writer, but he's one of the only musicians I know who can be working on a project entirely on his own and still have too many cooks in the kitchen.

[Tweedling]

Still, I enjoyed what Jay added to the band and miss it. As much as I enjoy the current line-up, especially in live performance, my favorite Wilco albums all have Jay on them.

My feelings exactly!

[Beltmann]

[Jay] is an excellent producer and wonderful, wonderful pop writer, but he's one of the only musicians I know who can be working on a project entirely on his own and still have too many cooks in the kitchen.

[BreezyGrass]

What an interesting question. Jay is a great musician no doubt. I just got on the Wilco train two years ago and only really heavy these last couple of months and I really like it all and every album is different. Music being the most important barometer its really all very good. That being said reading the books, interviews in addition to watching IATTBYH its tough to stomach Jay Bennet at all. I just revisited Sam Jone's rocumentary and its great but I wish it was not for that album and would not have had the drama that was Jay. Jeff sums it up greatly though when he says to the effect that he wants to create with someone who can share. Great line.

 

Matty

www.myspace.com/breezygrass

www.myspace.com/mattylyons1

[bakerian08]

i only know this from bootlegs having never seen the band prior to jay's leaving the band, but i prefer the jay-less band live. but, i like the records jay is on a lot more.