Lammycat Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 but I still can't get over how quick you are to write off other forms of cheating.I've never written off other forms of cheating. Not once. I continue to put forms of cheating into perspective and degree, whereas you lump-sum them. Greenies and steroids are both chemicals that physically alter your body in a way that, according to the players that took them, helps make you a better player.How did greenies make a player "better?" Not more alert, but physically better? Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 So can we get a sliding scale of what's ok? It seems to me like the only one that is even any sort of a big deal to you is roids. Everything else is just 'oh, you naughty boy.' And if it's august, and it's 95 degrees out and you are about to play a day night double header, you tell me how greenies wouldn't give you an edge. Seems pretty obvious to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 So can we get a sliding scale of what's ok? It seems to me like the only one that is even any sort of a big deal to you is roids. Everything else is just 'oh, you naughty boy.'You continue to ignore what I have been saying on this all along. When did I say "naughty boy" crap like you are asserting? Yeesh, man. The sliding scale is the penalties that are doled out in relation to the offense. For the umpteenth time: I believe there are degrees of cheating and that getting caught is punishable according to the degree of the offense. I don't know how to state it any clearer than that. ed. And I would say using steroids is right below betting on the game/fixing games. So yes, it's higher up on the scale than corking a bat, imo. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 And for the umpteenth time, spitballs were worse than steroids for all but 4 years of baseballs history so far. The problem with this whole debate is we don't know what effect steroids have. Studies have been done on the physical effects of spitballs and corked bats, but not steroids or greenies. If steroids are responsible for bonds hitting 73, what about the pitchers he was facing? And why did alex sanchez not hit 73? And if greenies aren't going to help, why have they been arguably more of a part of baseball than steroids for a much longer time? There are far too many things we simply don't know for me to take some kind of strong stance on those who used, just like I don't think willie mays should be removed from the hall ecause he used greenies. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 And for the umpteenth time, spitballs were worse than steroids for all but 4 years of baseballs history so far.This is funny. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 The punishment doesn't fit the crime? Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 The punishment doesn't fit the crime?I don't know, as I'm not sure I even understand what you are saying by stating that spitballs were worse save for a 4 year period. I maintain that spitballs were never worse than steroids. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 If the punishment fits the crime, then steroids were only worse than spitballs since 2004. Link to post Share on other sites
Smokestack Joe Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 who is this Matt Wieters guy, Catcher for BAL, im hearing about, ive read some things saying he could be a top catcher this season. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 If the punishment fits the crime, then steroids were only worse than spitballs since 2004.I still have not seen anything but that Selig blurb stating that the Fay Vincent memo and MLB policy on banned substances was anything other than what it has been. I'm not saying that the Selig comments are invalid, but they counter everything that the public has known about policy. I also don't see it being mentioned/discussed anywhere else. Any other links/insight on this? And because steroids were not banned during a certain time does not diminish from the impact/negative affect they have had on the sport. I never stated that punishment alone is the litmus test. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This needs to stop. What was once an interesting conversation has devolved into LammyCat and bobbob1313 arguing back and forth and saying the same thing over and over again. Enough already! Your comments aren't gonna change anyone's mind let alone each other. It is truly pointless. This use to be my favorite thread where I could read some baseball talk with a bit of fun, now it is madding. Come on, most teams pitchers and catchers report very soon. Which to me is great. Let's leave this talk of steroids and our opinions and let's talk about the game as it stand now. I would much rather read about why the Cubs lineup although worse then last year still will win the division and get swept in the playoffs, then this arguing. Please for all that is holy stop. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 who is this Matt Wieters guy, Catcher for BAL, im hearing about, ive read some things saying he could be a top catcher this season. He was, I belief the top pick in the draft last year, and he's absolutely raked in the minors. He is probably ready right now, but they might keep him down. But if he keeps hitting like he has in the minors, they can't keep him down. I still have not seen anything but that Selig blurb stating that the Fay Vincent memo and MLB policy on banned substances was anything other than what it has been. I'm not saying that the Selig comments are invalid, but they counter everything that the public has known about policy. I also don't see it being mentioned/discussed anywhere else. Any other links/insight on this? And because steroids were not banned during a certain time does not diminish from the impact/negative affect they have had on the sport. I never stated that punishment alone is the litmus test. In that thing I posted with seligs quote there is also an excerpt from MLB's website that says they weren't against the rules in 98. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 This needs to stop. What was once an interesting conversation has devolved into LammyCat and bobbob1313 arguing back and forth and saying the same thing over and over again. Enough already! Your comments aren't gonna change anyone's mind let alone each other. It is truly pointless. This use to be my favorite thread where I could read some baseball talk with a bit of fun, now it is madding. Come on, most teams pitchers and catchers report very soon. Which to me is great. Let's leave this talk of steroids and our opinions and let's talk about the game as it stand now. I would much rather read about why the Cubs lineup although worse then last year still will win the division and get swept in the playoffs, then this arguing. Please for all that is holy stop.I'm all for talking about other things. If you have something to discuss bring it into the fold. Otherwise, not sure what the harm is. Just skip over the crap you don't like. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 This needs to stop. What was once an interesting conversation has devolved into LammyCat and bobbob1313 arguing back and forth and saying the same thing over and over again. Enough already! Your comments aren't gonna change anyone's mind let alone each other. It is truly pointless. This use to be my favorite thread where I could read some baseball talk with a bit of fun, now it is madding. Come on, most teams pitchers and catchers report very soon. Which to me is great. Let's leave this talk of steroids and our opinions and let's talk about the game as it stand now. I would much rather read about why the Cubs lineup although worse then last year still will win the division and get swept in the playoffs, then this arguing. Please for all that is holy stop. Ok. Pitchers and catchers report soon. Yay! We have now exhausted every possible discussion regarding pitchers and catchers reporting. It's the offseason, steroids are the number one thing to discuss. I posted about the Nats signing Dunn, and nobody really seemed keen on talking about that. Come up with a topic for discussion, and I'll discuss it, I just like talking about baseball. Oh fuck, Lammy said the same thing. I have to disagree, quickly! Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 alright pre spring training predictions; NL Style NL Central1) Cubs2) Reds3) Cards4) Brewers5) Astros6) Pirates NL East1) Phillies2) Mets3) Nats4) Atlanta5) Marlins NL West1) LA2) D-backs3) San Fran4) San Diego5) Colorado Wildcard team Mets So agree disagree? Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 No way the Marlins finish last in the east. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 NL West1) LA2) D-backs3) San Fran4) San Diego5) Colorado So agree disagree?Without comment on other divisions right now, LAD take a hard hit if Manny isn't in the equation and I think SF will actually be pretty good this year, better than AZ and top of the NL West. COL will be bottom of the rung, still. Link to post Share on other sites
PigSooie Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 LA takes a hard hit if Manny isn't in the equation Yes. They will return to being a joke offensively. Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Without comment on other divisions right now, LAD take a hard hit if Manny isn't in the equation and I think SF will actually be pretty good this year, better than AZ and top of the NL West. COL will be bottom of the rung, still. I like San Fran, especially that young pitcher they got. Though I feel he will have his sophomore slump as it were. Does anyone think that Manny won't end up with the Dodgers for the next year? Link to post Share on other sites
ZenLunatic Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 alright pre spring training predictions; NL Style NL Central1) Cubs2) Reds3) Cards4) Brewers5) Astros6) Pirates Wildcard team Mets So agree disagree? This is better. I think Brewers will be our the Cubs main competition again. Cubs will win the WS. NL Central1) Cubs2) Brewers3) Cards4) Astros5) Reds6) Pirates Link to post Share on other sites
mfwahl Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Braves and Marlins below the Nationals? Is Dunn that good? Florida is a really good team and the Braves are vastly improved from last year (they actually have pitchers that can stay on the active roster) and arguably better than the Mets. Hard division to pick. I would say any team in the NL East beside the Nats has a chance to at least get the wild card. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 The Marlins have a chance to win the division, but every pitcher has to stay healthy. If one of them goes down for more than a week or two, we are finished. We should've traded Cantu or Uggla for some pitching. Link to post Share on other sites
Lammycat Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 Missed this earlier....Griffey, Jr. back to SEA on a 1 yr. deal?:http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...8&fext=.jsp Link to post Share on other sites
MrRain422 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Dunn is really good, but the rest of that team is a total disaster -- especially the pitching staff. I'm a Nats semi-fan but I'll be shocked if they don't finish in last and at least 10 games behind the next team ahead of them. Link to post Share on other sites
bobbob1313 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I've generally defended Bud over the years, but he said some real stupid shit today. Link to post Share on other sites
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