Wilco (The Album Discussion II) w/ spoilers

[Wendy]

continued from Wilco (The Album Discussion I)

[standenup]

how good is you never know

[Theremin]

Not that good actually, I'm sick of it already.

[cooperissup3r]

i am laying off of it a bit til it releases in physical form. i like it though. SBS took me a while to really get comfortable with...actually all of their albums take me a little bit to really fall in love with them. overall, i like the album though.

[Beltmann]

I have many thoughts about this album, Wilco's recent output, reactions here, etc., and I can't really cohere them. This will be a ramble....

 

...That's a lot of crap to read. Sorry. Thanks for your attention. Nothing here is meant to antagonize people who love SBS and W(TA) as much as any other Wilco album. Part of being a fan is talking and debating about the music with others who are fans. I also don't presume to dictate to the band what kind of music they should and should not be making. Methinks that a few of the "Wilco can do no wrong" crowd and a few of the "SBS and/or W(TA) blow(s)" crowd could stand to chill.

I did not agree with every word of your post, but I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Intriguing observations and insights. Thanks for posting it!

[Wendy]

Yesterday was the first listen and I was 50% happy with the album.

 

Yesterday evening was the second listen and I was 75% happy with the album.

 

Now tonight is the third listen and I am 95% happy with the album. Which means there's only 1 song I don't like. Which is "You Never Know."

 

There's some beautiful music on this album, and it's definitely a grower. Thanks to Hollinger. and the others who put together the lyrics. Deeper Down still blows me away, it's my favorite of the bunch.

 

Can't wait for the real CD/vinyl and the first show in the US promoting the new album - Cinci!!! I'm prepared now!

[RainDogToo]

Which means there's only 1 song I don't like. Which is "You Never Know."

 

I hear ya on that... It's not my favorite on the album, either. However, that being said, I do think it is a better single than "What Light" was for SBS.

[Theremin]

The problem is, while some songs are growing on me (the expected ballads 'country disappeared' & Solitaire) there are others I'm actually liking less with each listen. There really seems to be a lack of depth in the second half of the album with You Never Know, I'll Fight & Sonny feeling just being by the numbers ST-SBS hybrids. Meanwhile, You & I still leaves me completely unmoved.

Really digging songs 2-3-4 on this album, but 5 good songs in total is a bit sub-par for a band like Wilco.

[theashtraysays]

Yesterday was the first listen

 

I knew you'd buckle under the pressure ...

[radiokills]

so after a number of listens i have decided the following:

 

-tracks 1 to 4 are moderately enjoyable, "one wing" and "bull black nova" are clearly the standouts on the album.

-"you and i" is cool with the feist thing and everything.

-i classify the remainder of the album as bland, with the exception of "i'll fight," as i love the lyrics.

[hottuna]

Don't post here much, sporadically since Wilco's visit here in Alaska last summer sparked me to join the forum. Long time fan, bought a copy of Being There in 96 (was 16) and it more or less changed my life.

 

I have many thoughts about this album, Wilco's recent output, reactions here, etc., and I can't really cohere them. This will be a ramble.

 

I like The Album better than Sky Blue Sky. Sky Blue Sky was a disappointment. The Album is less of one, but some of it still chaps me.

 

I really like several of the tunes here. I love The Song. I love that 13 years after Being There, in my mind the ultimate album about what being a fan of rock and roll means, Wilco are willing to deliberately tear down the fourth wall and address their fans in a heartfelt manner. I think that is a brave and meaningful gesture in an era that still suffers from the ironic detachment that, for better and worse, has pervaded modern rock.

 

I love One Wing but it was better in its live incarnation - I miss the extended squall of noise at the end and I think the song suffers from the abbreviated, more polite soloing.

 

Bull Black Nova is awesome but not better than spiders, and I don't even know why so many are comparing it to that tune. The middle instrumental section (where the rhythm changes and we get the melodic guitar interlude) is out of place, I feel. It doesn't contribute to the rising tension in the tune that is its main strength. What I really like about it lyrically is that it's Tweedy clearly writing in character (more on this in a bit).

 

You and I, You Never Know, and I'll Fight are really nice tunes, I feel they are on the enjoyable side of the "sunny 70s pop/irritating soft rock" continuum. This is as good as it gets in terms of Wilco exploring this territory, and I don't know that they can continue to mine it without starting to miss more than they hit. Especially since Country Disappeared and Everlasting Everything are the real clunkers on the album to me and represent the bad side of that coin.

 

Last specific song I need to say something about is Sonny Feeling - there's no song that highlights what negative thoughts I have about this era of Wilco better than this one. And the bottom line is that this song is perfect without that lap steel over the verses and chorus. The lap steel damn near wrecks an awesome pop song. If you want to point to one musical moment in the Wilco canon that gives fuel to the "dad rock" nay-sayers (more on this below as well), this is it. This could be somewhat of a can of worms for those who have followed the band for a long time, scars of the war between the alt-country purists that felt the band went wayward after Being There and the ones who aggressively push the band towards avant-garde experimentalism. I've never understood or taken sides in that debate because to me what makes Wilco my favorite band is that they've done so many things so ridiculously well. The Americana/roots/whatever side in Being There (and AM, but I think general consensus is that AM is minor Wilco), the pop perfection in Summerteeth, the sonic experimentation of YHF/AGIB... all of these are among my very favorite albums. So that's not the point of my distaste for that lap steel. It's just so out of place, and recorded in a way and in a context that is reminiscent of some really bad music. It sounds cheesy, and not in a good way. I can't fully describe it, but I have a hunch if you agree with what I'm saying you know exactly what I mean, and if you disagree with me you have no idea what I'm saying.

 

All of which brings me to the big debate about Wilco's direction, etc. Yes, I am one of those who feel that SBS and W(TA) are not up to the standard of the band's 96-04 recorded output. That doesn't make me a bad fan. It just means that they are currently drawing from influences (70s classic rock, non-punk, metal, or glam) who themselves split my opinion. There's territory there that makes for really awesome music (late Beatles/Harrison influences noted by others on this album are obvious) and territory in the same constellation that, frankly, I can't stand. It's this crappy side of that era that drives the "dad-rock" criticisms. I sympathize with the dads on the board who take offense to this epithet and think it's kind of unfair, so call it "soft-rock," call it "lite," call it whatever, but they are just in a section of their record collection that has a lot of good music and a lot of bad music, and some of the bad is seeping into their albums. Simple as that. You could probably make one good album in this vein taking parts from SBS and W(TA) that are on the right side of that coin, make a couple of production tweaks, and you'd have an album that I love every bit as much as the previous four. At any rate, I certainly feel that they've mined this stuff as extensively as they can and its time to move on. This is the closest by far Wilco has come to making the same album twice in a row and they need some new inspiration.

 

Which brings me to my second and probably more important point. I don't get the sense that these last two albums have been driven by the same singular obsession/compulsion to explore a specific theme as the band's peak output was. Each of the four best Wilco albums have a sense of purpose, of trying to get at something that is gnawing away at Tweedy. I don't get that sense with these last two albums. Which is why Bull Black Nova strikes me as such a potentially exciting direction (aside from the fact that musically it is in a somewhat different direction that much of other late model Wilco). I'd love to see Tweedy doing more character study, writing from the perspective of someone who very clearly not him - in past albums there has been so much of himself in the lyrics but I don't get that from BBN. I want more of Tweedy as an observer of the world around him, trying to get inside the heads of others.

 

That's a lot of crap to read. Sorry. Thanks for your attention. Nothing here is meant to antagonize people who love SBS and W(TA) as much as any other Wilco album. Part of being a fan is talking and debating about the music with others who are fans. I also don't presume to dictate to the band what kind of music they should and should not be making. Methinks that a few of the "Wilco can do no wrong" crowd and a few of the "SBS and/or W(TA) blow(s)" crowd could stand to chill.

 

What a cohesive well thought out analysis. Thanks for verbalizing many of my thoughts about the state of the band and WTA

[Theremin]

so after a number of listens i have decided the following:

 

-tracks 1 to 4 are moderately enjoyable, "one wing" and "bull black nova" are clearly the standouts on the album.

-"you and i" is cool with the feist thing and everything.

-i classify the remainder of the album as bland, with the exception of "i'll fight," as i love the lyrics.

I kinda agree with point 1 & 3 but lets face it: You & I really is the definition of blandness. Seriously, there's no reason to like this song other than the 'zomg, Feist is on it!'-thingie.

[Wendy]

I knew you'd buckle under the pressure ...

I had to, man! I had to!!!

 

It was really just the calendar that pressured me, the Cinci show coming before the album release! Otherwise, I could have waited. But I'm smiling now, and that's a good thing judging from such mixed reactions.

 

Update

[Vacant Horizon]

I kinda agree with point 1 & 3 but lets face it: You & I really is the definition of blandness. Seriously, there's no reason to like this song other than the 'zomg, Feist is on it!'-thingie.

 

well, i see all the fascism that surrounded the cover art has dissapated a bit. at least there's some conversation here about the album and not just wilco fundamentalism.

 

the album is okay. i'm gonna consume it and be on my way. much the way i was with sbs. there's no yhf experimentalism on here, so i don't know what jeff or whoever said there was, was talking about. in terms of writing a songy song album, sbs hit the mark. wta kind of misses the mark and is quite a mess in direction and there are several mis-steps that have been already discussed above. bbn would have been the direction i would've like to see the band go. however, i think tweedy is happy now and the band is a fun place to be...the music reflects that. i prefer the wilco ditch duology of yhf and agib. tremendous albums for all time, especially agib. and they came out of a completely different zeitgeist. these are the ones i return to most.

[radiokills]

I kinda agree with point 1 & 3 but lets face it: You & I really is the definition of blandness. Seriously, there's no reason to like this song other than the 'zomg, Feist is on it!'-thingie.

 

i agree with that

[tsuxiit]

This isn't trash, its just nothing to get excited about. Nothing moves me like I thought that they still could do; its a bit sad. You always expect something from the artists that have touched on perfection.

 

Sky Blue Sky was a bit of a letdown as well, just to give context: following A Ghost Is Born was tough, but at least it still had "You Are My Face" and "Either Way" and the guitar solo on "Side With the Seeds" and (arguably) a very cool slide guitar solo on "Impossible Germany." However, when combined with several shitty B-side cuts, the album sort of dragged its feet and finished with a whimper. Wilco (The Album) reeks more like the lyrics on "Hate It Here" and the melody of "Shake It Off," a very Tweedy vocal-centric performance that just doesn't do justice to what they used to be. Hell, when pop music was still cool they could do it on Summerteeth, but they've found more of a kindred spirit with the Moms and Dads out there and drifted towards a different sound. The duet on this album sounds as if its intended for the same target market as the people who love the new Robert Plant vocal work. The live show was sweet in Lollapalooza last August, but they missed a memorable few Yankee Hotel Foxtrot songs for the sake of what I consider inferior material. I hope that they don't make any rash 'performatory' decisions with this new material at their disposal.

 

Less of the artistry, more entertainment, if entertainment means that sound changes to fit a new demographic. What happened to the piano parts of "I Am Trying to Break Your Heart" and "Poor Places" that elevated their alt-country sound to symphonic mastery, the electronic fuzz and the Americana overtones that encircled the entire "Wilco aesthetic" that they established. Has Jeff Tweedy found new inspiration in his family to the point that his melancholy-ridden poet's soul is sated?

 

And regarding this album, ultimately?

 

I've got reservations...

[rareair]

had no expectations for a wilco record for the first time and am really enjoying it.

 

wilco (the song) is fine but among my least favorite album openers. 2-4 is outstanding. the nervousness of bbn really does it for me.

 

love "you and i" which my 5 yr old declared a beautiful song she wanted to hear on a beach. solitare has grown into a favorite. and i'll fight will not leave my head (which i am 89% fine with).

 

the last song does yet hold my interest.

[bjorn_skurj]

how good is you never know

I don't know, because it is not on the copy of the leak I got.

[Nobody Girl]

For me, W(TA) is like that person you hate at first but end up going ga-ga over. I was really disappointed after the first several listens, but now it's the only thing I've listened to for the past few days. And when I'm not listening to it, the songs are running through my head and I think, "Why am I not listening to that?!?"

[explodo]

I don't know, because it is not on the copy of the leak I got.

Somebody should pay for that mistake.

[RainDogToo]

For me, W(TA) is like that person you hate at first but end up going ga-ga over. I was really disappointed after the first several listens, but now it's the only thing I've listened to for the past few days. And when I'm not listening to it, the songs are running through my head and I think, "Why am I not listening to that?!?"

Me too! I find myself constantly having the urge want to keep playing this album!

[mpolak21]

I don't know, because it is not on the copy of the leak I got.

 

If you were to check the e-mail you use for your VC account you might find something that remedies your situation.

 

--Mike

[damo]

why doesnt mikael or pat or whoever is playing organ on il fight do more with it, theres awesome places for some sweet organ riffs but nothing happens the whole way through

 

this album has potential in heaps of songs but nothing seems to happen

[Beautiful & Stoned]

After a few trips through, the main thing I'm missing is one or two more dark tracks. That's what made me fall in love with YHF and AGIB -- the darkness and mysteriousness. Some really nice stuff here, just feels too light. But I think I'll like it better than SBS once it digests a little more.

[Jesusetc84]

I'm not seeing this whole "inconsistency" argument. I think this might be the most solid front to back record Wilco's made. I'm not saying it's the highest reaching or most artistically inspired, but past records that might reach higher highs like AGIB and Being There, also have lower lows. There's nothing on here that I hate.

 

Summerteeth was my first Wilco album. It probably felt the most in line with what I was listening to at the time I bought it. Wilco (The Album) reminds me of a Summerteeth by a man and band who have accepted their lot in life. This to me is Tweedy looking back on Summerteeth a little more positively than he has in the past and remembering it as a great pop record instead of a marathon of pills, panic attacks, and mellotron. It takes me back to being 19, cracking open Summerteeth and being blown away by this new force in my life. That was the last time I felt an instant connection to a Wilco album; every other Wilco album has been a grower. So it was just a really pleasant surprise to have a record that instantly connected with me again.

 

I wouldn't say Wilco (The Album) is better than any Wilco album before it; in terms of feeling and high concept art, it's probably lower than their material from 96-04; but in terms of great melodies, it can go song for song with any Wilco album.