Wilco (The Album) or Sky Blue Sky?

[choo-choo-charlie]

I was mostly talking about how little they utilized him. There were lots of places he could have been featured, but I think One Wing is where I noticed it most. Early versions had more of his guitar work and when I saw them play live a couple weeks back, it seemed he was free insert more solo work, etc. I just sometimes wonder if so many of the old-school fans complained about Nels to the point where they wanted to back off a little and have him blend more with the band.

 

Don't get me wrong, I've developed more of a taste for WTA than I thought I ever would, but I'm just not as impressed. I am totally not someone who wants to just see Nels wailing on a guitar, either. When I say he's being "reigned in" I don't mean I want him to do the hair band bit (powering through the fretboard until his fingers bleed), I just would love to see more of his work and that's it. In all fairness he was pretty heavily featured, and the parts of the album I like were parts to which he really did contribute.

 

Those are interesting observations. I think a lot of Nels' sound(s) on this record have to do with the fact that he wasn't in New Zealand, laying down the live tracks. Pretty much everything he did on W(TA) was an overdub. After putting out the record, now they're going back and re-learning how to play the songs live as an ensemble...an approach they've taken before. It's all good.

[Sir Stewart]

Wilco (The Album) is the album Sky Blue Sky wishes it was.

Sky Blue Sky is content being Sky Blue Sky, trust me.

[mpolak21]

it's like voting for the best nba player without Lebron or Kobe being an option is all I'm saying. I do see you have similar thoughts as mine on WTA, though. I love, or at least like, the first four songs but after that it gets real mellow unless I missed something on the npr stream. I really don't like You and I. Just my preferences, though. Tweedy is a great songwriter and I'm sure other songs speak to other listeners in ways that don't resonate with me.

 

An attempt at the ridiculous...

 

WTA is perhaps the Bill Clinton to SBS's Bush Sr., it is ultimately an improvement, but not quite the full scale change people probably wanted, and not quite up to par with the really great presidents or albums past Geogre Washington (which would be Being There), Abraham Lincoln (Summerteeth), FDR (Yankee Hotel Foxtrot) or JFK (A Ghost is Born). Furthering this analogy the first Loose Fur album would be RFK, it should have been a president or a Wilco album, but sadly isn't, and Trace could only be Richard Nixon.

 

--Mike

[Three dollars and 63 cents]

It's way too soon to tell. My initial impression is that while there are more songs I really like on W(TA), SBS might flow better. Ask me this question again in six months and it will be a lot easier to answer, I think.

[greyhippo]

An attempt at the ridiculous...

 

WTA is perhaps the Bill Clinton to SBS's Bush Sr., it is ultimately an improvement, but not quite the full scale change people probably wanted, and not quite up to par with the really great presidents or albums past Geogre Washington (which would be Being There), Abraham Lincoln (Summerteeth), FDR (Yankee Hotel Foxtrot) or JFK (A Ghost is Born). Furthering this analogy Loose Fur One would be RFK, it should have been a president or a Wilco album, but sadly isn't, and Trace could only be Richard Nixon.

 

--Mike

 

I love that analogy and would agree entirely

 

Black Bull Nova is the stand out on WTA by a country mile and wouldn't be out of place on YHF. Impossible Germany was the stand out on SBS but TBH the whole album left me underwhelmed and more than a little disappointed. I personally yearn for a return to the YHF sound but it's not my band so as long as the guys are still happy and loving what they're doing (and the lives shows still sound like they kick ass, though I've not been to one for a few years) then all is good with the world.

 

But WTA for me in this vote.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I just sometimes wonder if so many of the old-school fans complained about Nels to the point where they wanted to back off a little and have him blend more with the band.

 

Do people honestly think Wilco stand around the studio going, "Well, you saw what they said on VC about Nels shredding all the time..."?

[trayanastasio]

i am a big SBS man

[Jesusetc84]

An attempt at the ridiculous...

 

WTA is perhaps the Bill Clinton to SBS's Bush Sr., it is ultimately an improvement, but not quite the full scale change people probably wanted, and not quite up to par with the really great presidents or albums past Geogre Washington (which would be Being There), Abraham Lincoln (Summerteeth), FDR (Yankee Hotel Foxtrot) or JFK (A Ghost is Born). Furthering this analogy Loose Fur One would be RFK, it should have been a president or a Wilco album, but sadly isn't, and Trace could only be Richard Nixon.

 

--Mike

 

 

Basically what you said.

[mpolak21]

Do people honestly think Wilco stand around the studio going, "Well, you saw what they said on VC about Nels shredding all the time..."?

 

Oh but they do, Speed Racer, oh but they do. Remember the great "Ken Coomer looks more like a High School Janitor Than a Rock Drummer" thread/bloodbath in 99, the second Tweedy saw that it was just a matter of time.

 

--Mike

[echo]

W(TA) by a substantial margin.

[creativetype]

... and Trace could only be Richard Nixon.

 

--Mike

 

 

In my book, Trace is Teddy Roosevelt, as it deserves a place on the Mt. Rushmore of albums being discussed here. Bully!

[standenup]

Unnecessary snide comment: Is Being There, Summerteeth, Yankee and Ghost a suitable answer? Actual answer: WTA, Sky Blue Sky is a little better than I usually give it credit for, but I still have never fully grown into it. My expectations were probably too low for WTA, as they were too high for SBS, and so WTA really blew me away after the leak because it was so much better than I expected. However since that couple week long honeymoon, it's held up less and less for me. The first four songs are pretty dynamite, and Solitaire is my favorite song on the record, still working on staying engaged with that back half though.

 

--Mike

 

what he said.

[J_Lefty]

Do people honestly think Wilco stand around the studio going, "Well, you saw what they said on VC about Nels shredding all the time..."?

 

No, but I do know they talk to their fans and do thousands of interviews. They tap into the collective consciousness and that bleeds into their albums. I can tell you right now that interviewing with different people/fans over and over and over again gives you a sense of what people are saying and thinking. That is going to bleed into the way you conduct yourself. It's just part of being in the public eye and having people obsess over you.

[Central Scrutinizer]

This is a good and timely question. I have a more personal attachment to SBS, which somewhat affects my judgment. But as objective as I can be, I would say SBS is the better *album*, while on a rate-song-by-song basis, W(TA) gets the decision.

 

What's missing from W(TA) for me is a cohesiveness, thread, theme, approach -- a self-awareness when an artist is creating a collection of works rather than a group of singles, tracked on side A and side B. Admittedly, the latter is just as arguably the approach Wilco took -- a collection of songs that celebrated its various approaches since Tweedy and Stirratt started -- a Whitman's sampler of music.

 

SBS has a cohesiveness of approach, an overriding message, emotion and feeling within the playing and the lyrics -- not hopeful yet reassuring (a musical hospice). It's aim isn't to knock you over the head or overwhelm (except Impossible Germany). SBS meets itself at the beginning when it ends; it's not so much singular formed work -- opening, build, conclusion -- it's a cycle of songs.

 

W(TA) is the first album since AM that I'll listen to specific tracks rather than the album -- to poke a finger into the nougat to make sure it's a taste I want. There are some tasty morsels in W(TA), but a sugar overload on a few. SBS is lite, sure, but it's delightful, like kettle corn -- sweet, not to heavy, and you're content to munch away.

[Dmada]

at the moment

SBS by a wide margin

 

but that may change after I hear the new stuff live

[Guest Francis X. Hummel]

I voted SBS.

 

I can't believe I did, but I did. I have been pretty outspoken in saying that SBS was my least favorite Wilco album to date, but I'm not big on Wilco (the album). It's not terrible, but it's just kind of generally weak to me. Aside from "You Never Know", there's not a "really good" song on it. SBS had "You Are My Face", "Impossible Germany" and "Please Be Patient With Me" that are totally rad.

 

Hopefully, Wilco (the album) will grow on me. It's probably too early to judge, really, considering I bought it yesterday, but it didn't strike me as anything more than just alright.

[Sir Stewart]

Hopefully, Wilco (the album) will grow on me. It's probably too early to judge, really, considering I bought it yesterday, but it didn't strike me as anything more than just alright.

 

Same for me. It feels like a 'between' album to me - Wilco's first.

[mpolak21]

I wonder if Being There and Summerteeth were recorded and released after YHF, if they would have had similar criticisms leveled at them. Would Summerteeth's review focus on how the keyboard parts are too busy and would ELT be called Dad Rock? Would someone say aside from Misunderstood and Sunken Treasure, everything else on Being There runs together as either a bar-band rocker or a folksy country song? (They'd be wrong, but I think you get my point). Now I think both of those records are better than either SBS or WTA, but I think Foxtrot raised a lot of our bars to a point where Wilco may never hit them again.

 

--Mike

[Sir Stewart]

I wonder if Being There and Summerteeth were recorded and released after YHF, if they would have had similar criticisms leveled at them. Would Summerteeth's review focus on how the keyboard parts are too busy and would ELT be called Dad Rock? Would someone say aside from Misunderstood and Sunken Treasure, everything else on Being There runs together as either a bar-band rocker or a folksy country song? (They'd be wrong, but I think you get my point). Now I think both of those records are better than either SBS or WTA, but I think Foxtrot raised a lot of our bars to a point where Wilco may never hit them again.

 

--Mike

 

Well, for perspective in my case, SBS might be my favorite Wilco album, and Wilco (the album) my least.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

While there are songs on SBS that are among my favorite Wilco moments (Side with Seeds, Impossible Germany), I REALLY like W(ta). The only misstep in so glorious that it works: Bull Black Nova is so out there in the context of the record that it makes the record shine me)

[rwilson580]

I think we're all slaves to our expectations a little bit. I came to the Wilco party late, Summerteeth was their last album I heard -- and it was the only one that disappointed me. And yet to a lot of you ST is obviously the summit of Wilco's catalogue. I think a lot of people have the same issues with SBS -- it suffers just a little bit more than it should because it wasn't exactly the album they wanted at that point in time. I thought SBS was a superb album the first time I heard it, and it has only gotten better with repeated listenings. I like every song on (ta), but it's going to need serious legs to ever seem as interesting to me as SBS. After a half dozen pre-release listens, (ta) is already feeling a little tapped out. Sky Blue Sky by a mile for me.

 

Can't wait to hear these new songs live on the 19th, though....

[dylan_1]

Too early to tell.

[jakobnicholas]

I wonder if Being There and Summerteeth were recorded and released after YHF, if they would have had similar criticisms leveled at them. Would Summerteeth's review focus on how the keyboard parts are too busy and would ELT be called Dad Rock? Would someone say aside from Misunderstood and Sunken Treasure, everything else on Being There runs together as either a bar-band rocker or a folksy country song?

 

 

Interesting to think about, but I think not.

 

To me, hardly anything sounds forced on Being There. Kingpin and Dreamer in My Dreams sound kind of as after-thoughts, but they're so damn fun and loose sounding. The rest of Being There, whether it's a "rocker" or "folksy country song", just SOUND sincere and real and beautiful and don't sound overly-worked or overly-thought-out.

 

You may be right about ELT. That's always been the weak song on that album for me. But I feel like Wilco (The Album) has a few of those awkward songs. Summerteeth gets away with a song like ELT because the rest of Summerteeth is dark and/or interesting and/or layered pop greatness.

 

But I disagree with the premise somewhat, as I think Being There and Summerteeth are both better than YHF. I actually prefer the YHF demos disc to YHF.

 

I can't pick between SBS and W(TA)....they're both equally hit and miss for me.

[rwilson580]

I wonder if Being There and Summerteeth were recorded and released after YHF, if they would have had similar criticisms leveled at them. Would Summerteeth's review focus on how the keyboard parts are too busy and would ELT be called Dad Rock? Would someone say aside from Misunderstood and Sunken Treasure, everything else on Being There runs together as either a bar-band rocker or a folksy country song? (They'd be wrong, but I think you get my point). Now I think both of those records are better than either SBS or WTA, but I think Foxtrot raised a lot of our bars to a point where Wilco may never hit them again.

 

--Mike

 

I should have read this before I posted above, Mike. This is kind of what happened for me -- I experienced the albums in this order -- YHF, AGiB, SBS, BT, AM, ST. I loved them all through BT, and liked AM an awful lot despite the alt-country vestiges. Summerteeth, though -- whoa. Remember that old Sesame Street game -- three of these things belong together, three of these things are kind of the same? Well, ST was DEFINITELY the one that did not belong for me. Great songs, but so over-produced, so slick. Pop mechanisms that seemed way too familiar...shop-worn, in fact...and "shop-worn" was one thing that I never expected from my new favorite group. Now I'm not saying that I was right, but it does kind of reinforce the point that we've both made -- that the expectations you bring to the table are HUGE.

 

Hmmm...I wonder which of my expectations are undermining my (ta) experience...?

[jlb1705]

I'm here to defend ELT. It's a great song, and came in handy for me in a very cathartic sort of way about a year or so ago. Didn't really pay as much attention to it before then.

 

I'm trying to take that kind of thing into account as I examine my own preferences and read others'. Something that really hits home for me may not for you, and vice versa.

 

Some of the songs we're discussing - I may not be into them now, but that does not necessarily preclude liking them down the road. I came to the Wilco cataloge in a strange order: YHF, AM, ST, BT, and then the rest upon release. The songs I liked most on ST for instance are not the ones I like most now. I remember being bored to death by Radio Cure when listening to YHF for years. Then one day, I just 'got it'. I still remember the time and place - it's a special song.

 

Anyway, I already mentioned that I voted W(ta), but I also agree with everyone who says that time will tell.