MLB '09

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

One of the strangest offseason moves I can remember.

 

Bay gets a nice offer from both the Mets and Red Sox and declines both.

Then news comes out last week that he wants to sign with the Sox.

Reports say that he is "lukewarm" on signing with the Mets.

Then he ends up signing with the Mets. Edit: So much for wanting to play close to home.

 

I think he wanted to sign and stay with the Sox, but Bozo Bore Ass fucked it up for him.

Then no one really was interested in him really. Thus sparking that old flame for Boston "take me back."

$6 million more than the Sox offered him, but for a 4th place team. I have nothing against the Mets, but I'd hate to be a fan because it's been a pretty disappointing decade for them.

 

Will that other New York team sweep in and take Matt Holliday off the rack? We'll soon find out.

 

Edit: It's also interesting to note that the Red Sox also made a nice offer to Matt Holliday ($16.5 for 5 years) during the Winter Meetings. It wasn't reported until after. I'm not sure which offer came first.

 

I'm not one of those Red Sox fans who expect every player to come and play here on the drop of a dime or million.

But I really have to wonder if Matt can do better (in terms of money and a great team) in this wintry economic climate.

I really doubt that Boras does anything that his clients don't want him to do. $6 million is $6 million.

[u2roolz]

I really doubt that Boras does anything that his clients don't want him to do. $6 million is $6 million.

 

 

I assume you mean that he goes with the "Wait and see" approach to garner more money out of a deal.

Or rather he solidly suggests it to his clients who also probably want to garner as much money as they can in such a position.

The assumption I guess was that the Red Sox would counter the Mets' offer with a higher price tag which did not happen.

Then 2-3 weeks went by. If Bay really wanted to stay with the Sox, I think he would have signed with them.

But I think that Boras chimed in with "wait and see" about the Red Sox to Bay who had dollar signs in his eyes.

I agree $6 million is $6 million, but I really don't think that Bay is honestly happy about how it all turned out.

 

NY Daily News Headline from December 24th: Outfielder Jason Bay seems lukewarm on Mets, pushing to resign with Red Sox

 

I imagine it's nice to have an extra $6 million in your pocket, but it's not that nice when you are on a 4th place team with a bad reputation for "choking" at the wrong time of the season.

It could be that all of the "I want to come back to the Red Sox" talk in the last week was all an act to spark an interest in the Mets to lock it up.

 

Remember that in Game 4 of the World Series in 2007 Scott Boras announced that Alex Rodriguez was opting out of his contract with the Yankees.

 

From Variety:

"Alex Rodriguez did not formally sever ties with Boras, Rodriguez later negotiated a new contract with the New York Yankees—doing so without Boras—after originally opting out of the final three years of a 10-year, $252 million contract. Some news sources say Boras gave Rodriguez "bad advice" in encouraging him to opt out and that Boras had demanded a $350 million offer from the Yankees "just to talk" about Rodriguez staying with the team. Rodriguez instead chose to employ a managing director of Goldman Sachs to negotiate a deal with the Yankees. The Yankees had refused to speak with Rodriguez had Boras been involved.

 

On December 17, 2007, Variety reported that Alex Rodriguez had fired Scott Boras."

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

It could be that all of the "I want to come back to the Red Sox" talk in the last week was all an act to spark an interest in the Mets to lock it up.

 

Yes, exactly. Those leaks to the media are often strategic and yet fans think they have the full story by synthesizing the various, often contradictory, reports.

 

Through all that hullabaloo, A-Rod got a raise and extension with the team he apparently wanted to be with. He opted out his contract, yet still comes across as having some virtue (in sticking with his team) while holding the villain Boras at arm's length. Yes, it's possible that the media reports about having a falling out are true, but it seems equally as likely to me that it's just theater.

[The High Heat]

For Bay the difference may have been the reported , but not yet verified, fifth year option. That could up the Sox offer by about $20M, not six, if he stays for the fifth year. Still, I think it's fool's gold. Both sides may regret this within a couple of years.

[bjorn_skurj]

1. How can Bay possibly suck more than some of the dudes who have played LF and RF for the Mets in recent years?

2. Even though he plays for what is in all likelihood a team that won't win the NL pennant next year, he does get to play in New York City. Living in New York and having the money to enjoy it is perhaps the most splendid of currently available human experiences.

3. The money was better:

 

http://www.fangraphs...value-of-money/

[The High Heat]

He won't suck. He will be better than every other option available, but that is another long commitment for the Mets to take on. Bay can be prone to prolonged slumps, as the two month long one he had last summer (hence the BA in the .250's), not to mention the entire 2007 season in Pittsburgh. For that kind of coin a more consistent player with athletic defensive ability is more warranted to play LF in Citi Field. Or at least a left-handed power hitter that won't have to suffer the way Wright did last season. Remember, it's always those last couple of years that come back to cripple a team's budget. The Tigers and Ordonez, et al, come to mind.

[MattZ]

bjorn, Bay being better than the dogshit the Mets have put in LF is hardly a reason to sign him to a 4 yr contract with an option for a 5th yr. That's a really long time.

[bjorn_skurj]

bjorn, Bay being better than the dogshit the Mets have put in LF is hardly a reason to sign him to a 4 yr contract with an option for a 5th yr. That's a really long time.

If that's the going price for decent outfielders, then that's what you have to pay. Now, would it make more sense to pay Holliday all that and more to have a younger and better outfielder for a longer time? Maybe - it's what I would have done if I was Fred Wilpon. Would it ultimately make even more sense to blow up the team entirely, trade the core for prospects and commit to a five-year rebuilding program? Quite possibly, but that doesn't happen in New York sports that often, and very likely not in this case. I think the plan is (again) to count on strong performances from Wright, Beltran, Reyes and Santana and visualize positively about everybody else. Barring yet another year of catastrophic injuries, the offense should be OK. Maybe Ike Davis will prove to be a prodigy and have some impact on the 2010 proceedings. The rotation? Hmm. The bullpen? Hmm. Realistically, maybe the Mets will contend for the Wild Card. The division is still Philly's, unless they shit the bed.

I will conclude with a quote from Greg Prince, co-writer of Faith and Fear in Flushing, my favorite Mets blog: "When the Mets take a break from saddening us and embarrassing themselves to sign a player who doesn’t out and out suck — who may actually do the opposite — I think we owe it to ourselves, within reason and the realm of our understandable caution and cynicism, to enjoy it, take a little heart from it and feel a tad better about life because of it." Not saying that you are not, MattZ, but the above mirrors how I feel about Jason Bay. He is at least the best Met to wear #44 since Howard Johnson.

[The High Heat]

The current Mets are the Orioles from pre-Andy McPhail during this entire past decade. They are signing random stars, placing them alongside medicore players, and not reinforcing the team with depth: no bench nor a line of prospects on the way. The Mets are what I call an "if" team: "If" about a dozen scenarios happen they will make the playoffs. It just doesn't happen. The Mets have too many problems for a guy on the back end of his prime to make a significant difference. Miquel Tejeda had a couple of great seasons in Baltimore, but it didn't make a difference. They had no depth, no prospects, and then he started getting slow and old and they traded him for not much. The Mets are a top-heavy organization. History shows us that this is a method of long-term failure.

The Mets need a hell of alot more than Jason Bay, no matter how good he is.

[ElBirdos]

Cards' and Holliday closing in on a deal.

[cryptique]

Cubs sign Marlon Byrd.

 

So they got rid of one MB and brought in another. They better hope this one works out better.

[The High Heat]

Cubs sign Marlon Byrd.

 

So they got rid of one MB and brought in another. They better hope this one works out better.

Those career years during free agent years sure do pay off nicely.

[Oil Can Boyd]

Red Sox sign Adrian Beltre.

[bobbob1313]

His 2003 has to rank among the biggest fluke seasons of all time. I mean, at least Grady Anderson was playing in an even more laughably inflated offensive era, so his numbers, relative to league average, are actually not as good as Beltre's.

[u2roolz]

"ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick tweets, "I just heard that Red Sox have talked to the Mets about a Mike Lowell-for-Luis Castillo trade. Not sure how serious it is." He adds that Lowell is expendable with Adrian Beltre in the fold. Also, with Castillo gone, the Mets could go after Orlando Hudson.

 

The deal certainly clears an unwanted player for both teams. But while it is easy to see Lowell getting some at-bats for the Mets at first, and even spelling David Wright at third base, where Castillo fits in- given his poor defense at second base, and the existence of Dustin Pedroia- with Boston is harder to understand.

 

The money would be even in such a deal. Lowell is owed $12MM in 2010, while Castillo is owed $6MM in each of the next two years."

 

WTF!!

 

Are they assuming that the Mets haven't been paying attention to the aborted Mike Lowell trade?

[bobbob1313]

There's almost no way, short of Lowell coming never coming back from that injury, that that is a bad trade for the mets. There's no reason for Boston to make that deal.

 

Castillo's old, his defense has gotten worse, and they have a top 3 second baseman in baseball. 6 mil for two years is a lot to pay a utility man.

 

I mean, I know Lowell is worthless to them, but he's better than Castillo, even coming off injury.

[MrRain422]

Matt Holliday back to St. Louis.

 

Randy Johnson to the retirement home.

[MrRain422]

Oh yeah, btw, I know this won't be controversial, but since it always comes up when someone retires:

 

Randy Johnson is a Hall of Famer. Probably first ballot.

[bobbob1313]

Was it 4 straight Cy Youngs? And like 4 of the top 10 strikeout seasons in the modern era?

 

Yeah, no doubt. Clemens had a better career, But nobody except maybe Pedro could dominate a game like he could in my lifetime. You were better off not swinging if you were a lefty.

[Lammycat]

There's almost no way, short of Lowell coming never coming back from that injury, that that is a bad trade for the mets. There's no reason for Boston to make that deal.

 

Castillo's old, his defense has gotten worse, and they have a top 3 second baseman in baseball. 6 mil for two years is a lot to pay a utility man.

 

I mean, I know Lowell is worthless to them, but he's better than Castillo, even coming off injury.

 

It'd be a luxury tax/payroll reduction move, I'd imagine. Then get rid of Castillo to someone looking for a 2B for some bench/back up.l Keeping owell as a p/t player would be more costly, is all. I guess.

[The High Heat]

Keeping Lowell as a p/t player would be more costly, is all. I guess.

To the tune of $21M at third base.

[Lammycat]

$12 M....

 

I think it'd be looked at as saving salary cap money (they're already over) and luxury tax issues (around a M). If there's another team interested in Castillo it'd make a little sense.

[The High Heat]

$12 M....

 

I think it'd be looked at as saving salary cap money (they're already over) and luxury tax issues (around a M). If there's another team interested in Castillo it'd make a little sense.

Beltre's $9M + Lowell's $12M!

 

The Sox are supposed to be shipping Kotchman off to Seattle.

 

If Holiday is worth $17M & a full no-trade clause to the Cards, what will Pujols get now that it's his turn? Yipes!

[bjorn_skurj]

Pujols will get $22M plus, and if the signing of Holliday prevents that, (or unless Pujols has already told them he wants to play for the Mets), St. Louis fucked up really badly.

[MattZ]

Pujols' pending free agency is not a surprise to the Cards. I am certain they've either made a decision that they can afford both, or that there's no way they can afford Pujols irrespective of Holliday. No way the Cards would let Matt Holliday stand in the way of resigning Pujols. The guy is to the Cards as Jeter is to the Yanks.