How I see it going down

[Guest Speed Racer]

Yes my perception is that if you tour 9months out of the year and check into a sweet studio in New Zealand for two weeks to record an album, your priorities seem obvious.

 

This is a fine record. Several of the Beatle's early albums were recorded over the course of a day, right? Bob Dylan did that too? Time doesn't matter, in my opinion.

[nodep5]

This is a fine record. Several of the Beatle's early albums were recorded over the course of a day, right? Bob Dylan did that too? Time doesn't matter, in my opinion.

 

I'll concede that arguement for a lot of bands. I love raw, in the moment stuff. Neil Young "Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere". Black Crowes "Southern Harmony", Uncle Tupelo "Anodyne" I love that live in the studio, let's rehearse our butts off and record in one take. So don't get me wrong. I just don't think that suits Wilco and Wilco for me seemed to really hit their stride when they got a little pretenious and overthought in the studio.

 

I love "March 16th -20th" I really love that record. Jay Farrar is a good example of being really good at in the moment recording vs. studio wankery. I think Jeff is on the other end of that spectrum.

[IRememberDBoon]

i think it would be nice, but i sadly think that they're going to end up doing what most bands do - which is gradually make less interesting new material, slowly lose their peripheral fanbase, and eventually tour playing the hits - with a couple of new songs chucked in every now and again. that's the way of most bands, and only a very very small minority don't do this. i think i'll give them one more album, and if i don't like it, i'll stop thinking about them as a contemporary band - and just as a band from the past, so i'd assume lots of other people will probably do a similar thing. nothing lasts for ever. not even my posts.

 

 

No OFFENSE but this post is an everloving stinking load of horse dung. I mean what the flipping fukk are you talking about?? they play WAY more new songs off of albums every night and have been for the last three albums than ANY other touring band on the road. I mean this post is like the opposite of reality. NOONE incorporates more new songs in their setlists than Wilco. NOONE. Name one band. thanks

 

I think it could be sustainable for Wilco, they could do it if they wanted. Unfortunately they are happy playing similar sets night after night. And I don't really care what a majority of live bands do. They could all make their shows better and give their fans more reasons to come to shows if they got creative. Hell even Bob Dylan will change up his sets from night to night.

 

 

smoke another one donkey. youre lost. the only thing wrong with Wilco's setlists is no Hell is Chrome

[jmacomber68w]

Touring is what pays the bills. They'll never shut it down completely.

 

 

Anyone know a percentage of how much bands get when they perform live? Not necessarily Wilco, but a mid level band popularity wise? I've always been curious, I estimate a member makes a bout a $500 - $1000 per show? I could be incredibly off though

[Happiechick]

No OFFENSE but this post is an everloving stinking load of horse dung. I mean what the flipping fukk are you talking about?? they play WAY more new songs off of albums every night and have been for the last three albums than ANY other touring band on the road. I mean this post is like the opposite of reality. NOONE incorporates more new songs in their setlists than Wilco. NOONE. Name one band. thanks

 

 

 

 

smoke another one donkey. youre lost. the only thing wrong with Wilco's setlists is no Hell is Chrome

 

omg, "smoke another one donkey" is hilarious!

[mpolak21]

I listened to a good chunk of the band's catalog driving down 94 to Chicago this weekend. Somewhere during Summerteeth (the song), probably when the synth kicks in right before the "it feels nice to have you here" verse, I realized that these guys have been so important to me and given me so much in the last eight years I've been following them, that almost anything else they do at this point is just gravy. Though I'd certainly have my preferences as to what future albums would sound like (Summerteeth Two: The Search for More Summer Teeth or Yankee Hotel Foxtrot 2: The Hotel's Revenge), I got everything I wanted from these guys and more. I can be fine with anything they do, even if it isn't for me, because they did so much that was. How many times have I heard that "all my lies are always wishes" line and been devastated because it's so true.

 

You know it's almost unspoken or subtext in most of the threads here, but Wilco is a great fucking band. And because they've been great doing so many different things everyone can kind of attach themselves to a certain sound or a certain era and it's natural to like that so much anything else they do may seem a bit disappointing, and I don't begrudge anyone the right to express these opinions, but at a certain point you get to start playing with house money, it's hard to give Michael Jordan shit for making a turnover in the first quarter, when you know what's coming in the fourth.

 

I think I finally realized the Wilcos are there for me.

 

--Mike

[Guest Alan]

 

Anyone know a percentage of how much bands get when they perform live? Not necessarily Wilco, but a mid level band popularity wise? I've always been curious, I estimate a member makes a bout a $500 - $1000 per show? I could be incredibly off though

I don't know what you mean by "mid level" but each member of Wilco should be getting around 10 times what you quoted per show.

 

I say this based on knowing what a standup comic who charges twice what wilco does playing the same sized venue makes.

[AJ673]

I think playing live is really what energizes each member of the band, which is probably why this incarnation has lasted so long.

 

 

I was extremely tepid originally with regards to the present "incarnation" of the band, concerned over how an avant-garde jazz guitarist would mesh. Not to insult any previous member contributions, but Nels, in my little opinion, brought a breathe of fresh air to their music, particulary with regard to his live improvisational skills. That being said, in recent television appearances, (unfortunetly my only source of live Wilco music, until February) his playing manner and style seem to be quite subdued. This sincerely conecerns me as it's almost like he can't be himself.

 

I have read recent interviews in which various band members have implied that the current band line-up is the most comfortable in years, and that scares me as well. Some of the most brillant creations of our time have been derived from an element of chaos.

[mountain bed]

lol wut?

 

Phish and Pearl Jam do a pretty good job of mixing things up, especially Phish. The Grateful Dead did it for years as well so I don't know how you cna say it's not sustainable and that "all live bands really do play a predictable set per tour". I mean I might know I'm going to get a few new songs from Phish and I always know there are certain songs they'll play more often than others, but they do a great job of keeping it interesting and give a reason to see them multiple times per tour. I've seen 4 Phish shows so far this year and I've already seen 80 different songs. After the 3 shows I see in Nov that number will be well over 100. So don't tell me bands don't change things up or that it isn't sustainable.

I agree with this. Of course, I have no perspective on the matter.

[AJ673]

As long as the creative momentum is forward and evolving the band will continue.

[Synthesizer Patel]

No OFFENSE but this post is an everloving stinking load of horse dung. I mean what the flipping fukk are you talking about?? they play WAY more new songs off of albums every night and have been for the last three albums than ANY other touring band on the road. I mean this post is like the opposite of reality. NOONE incorporates more new songs in their setlists than Wilco. NOONE. Name one band. thanks

 

No offense taken. I clearly said EVENTUALLY tour playing the hits. Now go back and read it all again, and then you'll see that everything you've said has nothing to do with what i actually said. Let's have this discussion again in a few years time, when this does EVENTUALLY happen, though.

[Wendy]

I listened to a good chunk of the band's catalog driving down 94 to Chicago this weekend. Somewhere during Summerteeth (the song), probably when the synth kicks in right before the "it feels nice to have you here" verse, I realized that these guys have been so important to me and given me so much in the last eight years I've been following them, that almost anything else they do at this point is just gravy. Though I'd certainly have my preferences as to what future albums would sound like (Summerteeth Two: The Search for More Summer Teeth or Yankee Hotel Foxtrot 2: The Hotel's Revenge), I got everything I wanted from these guys and more. I can be fine with anything they do, even if it isn't for me, because they did so much that was. How many times have I heard that "all my lies are always wishes" line and been devastated because it's so true.

 

You know it's almost unspoken or subtext in most of the threads here, but Wilco is a great fucking band. And because they've been great doing so many different things everyone can kind of attach themselves to a certain sound or a certain era and it's natural to like that so much anything else they do may seem a bit disappointing, and I don't begrudge anyone the right to express these opinions, but at a certain point you get to start playing with house money, it's hard to give Michael Jordan shit for making a turnover in the first quarter, when you know what's coming in the fourth.

 

I think I finally realized the Wilcos are there for me.

 

--Mike

 

 

Print and frame this quote. Seriously. This is a beautiful statement, Mike. Thank you for writing it. Hopefully it is not overlooked by being mixed in here amidst all the nonsense.

[nodep5]

I listened to a good chunk of the band's catalog driving down 94 to Chicago this weekend. Somewhere during Summerteeth (the song), probably when the synth kicks in right before the "it feels nice to have you here" verse, I realized that these guys have been so important to me and given me so much in the last eight years I've been following them, that almost anything else they do at this point is just gravy. Though I'd certainly have my preferences as to what future albums would sound like (Summerteeth Two: The Search for More Summer Teeth or Yankee Hotel Foxtrot 2: The Hotel's Revenge), I got everything I wanted from these guys and more. I can be fine with anything they do, even if it isn't for me, because they did so much that was. How many times have I heard that "all my lies are always wishes" line and been devastated because it's so true.

 

You know it's almost unspoken or subtext in most of the threads here, but Wilco is a great fucking band. And because they've been great doing so many different things everyone can kind of attach themselves to a certain sound or a certain era and it's natural to like that so much anything else they do may seem a bit disappointing, and I don't begrudge anyone the right to express these opinions, but at a certain point you get to start playing with house money, it's hard to give Michael Jordan shit for making a turnover in the first quarter, when you know what's coming in the fourth.

 

I think I finally realized the Wilcos are there for me.

 

--Mike

 

I think you hit the nail on the head with this. I agree 100% with the idea that we all have our own attachment and that a certain era or incarnation of Wilco may be our favorite, but as a whole it is all a true gift. It is hard though to not have increasing expectations of wanting to me moved with every new release. For example, my wife was really disapointed in the new record because it didn't do anything for her and she use to listen to Being There for a month straight before giving it a rest. She, including I, use to flat out know that there was no one close to Wilco live in terms of emotional intensity. It can be sad when something that once moved you beyond belief doesn't do that. Sad because either we change or they change or grow old or whatever.

[cryptique]

I realized that these guys have been so important to me and given me so much in the last eight years I've been following them, that almost anything else they do at this point is just gravy. Though I'd certainly have my preferences as to what future albums would sound like (Summerteeth Two: The Search for More Summer Teeth or Yankee Hotel Foxtrot 2: The Hotel's Revenge), I got everything I wanted from these guys and more. I can be fine with anything they do, even if it isn't for me, because they did so much that was.

I understand your point, and I'm not sure I necessarily disagree with it, but don't you think this opens the door to justifying mediocrity?

[nodep5]

I understand your point, and I'm not sure I necessarily disagree with it, but don't you think this opens the door to justifying mediocrity?

 

Yes it probably does. I mean when you see The Rolling Stones here recently selling out stadiums, having the highest grossing tour and all of that, a portion of those crowds are made up of 60 year olds who have been there from the golden days who probably still go by their records that may have one or two decent tracks. Yeah that will be me with Wilco in 20 years. So yeah, I think we do justify mediocrity due to being huge fanboys or not wanting to let go, or because they deserve it. To call anything Wilco has ever released as mediocre is not quite fair though. Wilco (the album) may be mediocre comparatively speaking to the rest of their catalogue but relative to the rest of the music world, I think it stands up just fine.

[cryptique]

To call anything Wilco has ever released as mediocre is not quite fair though.

My question was geared more toward the future. Is it possible that a huge, blindly loyal fanbase eventually leads to mediocrity? Hopefully not, but I'm fearful.

 

I suppose it's all in how an artist responds to that loyalty. You can cater to it by continually releasing albums that sound just like your last album; you can try desperately to retain it by deliberately altering your sound in a vain attempt to avoid stagnation and seem edgy; or you can use it as a license to experiment and innovate.

 

Or, you can just ignore it and make the music you feel like making.

 

I think Wilco have mostly ignored it and gone their own way, but I fear that the knowledge that they can reliably sell out large venues may steer them toward a lowest-common-denominator approach to recording. I would say that it hasn't happened yet, but I do think that the new album veers somewhat in that direction, and I'd hate to see what happened to the Rolling Stones and R.E.M. happen to Wilco.

[Guest Speed Racer]

I suppose it's all in how an artist responds to that loyalty. You can cater to it by continually releasing albums that sound just like your last album; you can try desperately to retain it by deliberately altering your sound in a vain attempt to avoid stagnation and seem edgy; or you can use it as a license to experiment and innovate.

 

If it were that easy to respond to the loyalty, you'd think that more bands that suck their way into slow sales and oblivion would have "tried harder" to experiment and innovate their way back to the top, re-earning the trust of their loyal fanbase. Right?

 

I don't doubt for a second that Tweedy and Wilco honestly do love W(TA) and SBS. All of them have enough side projects and opportunities for collaboration to stimulate whatever creative longings they have. I think that saying they are "getting comfortable" because their music is poppier and more straightforward can be a lazy way for fans to pat themselves on the back for liking "challenging" music like YHF.

[nodep5]

I think that saying they are "getting comfortable" because their music is poppier and more straightforward can be a lazy way for fans to pat themselves on the back for liking "challenging" music like YHF.

 

I can get behind this. Even though Wilco (the album) is my least favorite, I think of it as the Let It Be (Beatles not Mats) of the Wilco catalouge. As far as the songs go, these are well crafted spot on songs. As far as a full album statement, I think it comes off as a collection of songs that represent the varying facets of Wilco. This isn't bad, It just isnt what Wilco has been for the majority of their career (album artists). But I will stand an defend their ability to write songs any day of the week. I would like to see them hunker down again though and challenge themselves. Hey I don't need to be challenged, I have Sun Kil Moon album from last year that I still can't get through.

[fatheadfred]

I read the first page of this shtuff, scrolled the rest and almost barfed. Go read a book or something. Looks like the cancer has returned to VC. Let's all talk shit about the band for awhile? Yeah, later.

 

Keep doin' whatever the hell you want to do Wilco!

[cryptique]

If it were that easy to respond to the loyalty, you'd think that more bands that suck their way into slow sales and oblivion would have "tried harder" to experiment and innovate their way back to the top, re-earning the trust of their loyal fanbase. Right?

I didn't say it was easy. I also don't think it's a conscious decision that these artists make. And I suspect there are plenty of possible paths beyond the four that I identified. I was just providing some examples.

 

I read the first page of this shtuff, scrolled the rest and almost barfed. Go read a book or something. Looks like the cancer has returned to VC. Let's all talk shit about the band for awhile? Yeah, later.

"The cancer" comes in many forms on these message boards, including a variant that causes one to be abrupt and dismissive without offering anything of value.

[nodep5]

I read the first page of this shtuff, scrolled the rest and almost barfed. Go read a book or something. Looks like the cancer has returned to VC. Let's all talk shit about the band for awhile? Yeah, later.

 

Keep doin' whatever the hell you want to do Wilco!

 

 

I for one, probably should go read a book, but deciding to discuss the greater implications of Wilco's next move came over me. I could go read the Wilco Book. Perfect!

[rwilson580]

I don't care what they do. The band's instincts have been pretty much spot on so far. For me. Jeff Tweedy is my favorite musician; I trust his creative impulses more than anyone else's out there. If I could chart the band's next career move, I think I'd have to pass. Why would I substitute my amateur's judgment for those who have proven time and again they're experts in making great music? If their next step is a disappointment to me, I'll look just as forward to the one that comes after that. I suspect the band has worked damned hard to inspire the loyalty you can see on this site. They should have to work just as hard to lose that good will.

[WilcoFan]

After thoroughly enjoying the show Friday night in Dallas, I'm not sure what all the hand-wringing is all about. After having seen Impossible Germany and Hate it Here countless times before, the treatment and playing on these two songs were more intense and better than anything I had previously heard from them.

 

I guess it boils down to opinions again. What is better? For you it is probably different than mine. I'm not saying this is what you are saying, but if sounding more like the record is better than that's not why I even go to concerts. I go to concerts to see how a musician treats particular songs over time. Wilco seems to have abandoned all willingness to jack with a song a little bit to see how it turns out.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I understand your point, and I'm not sure I necessarily disagree with it, but don't you think this opens the door to justifying mediocrity?

 

 

That's what I love about the internets. Let's navel gaze and worry about something that MIGHT happen.

[bleedorange]

I guess it boils down to opinions again. What is better? For you it is probably different than mine. I'm not saying this is what you are saying, but if sounding more like the record is better than that's not why I even go to concerts. I go to concerts to see how a musician treats particular songs over time. Wilco seems to have abandoned all willingness to jack with a song a little bit to see how it turns out.

 

I'm not sure what about anything I stated in my post makes it seem like I think sounding more like the record is better. Is that the only reason you go to concerts? Just Wilco concerts or all bands? I go to enjoy a band in a live setting and all that goes with that. Sometimes different arrangements of songs are great, but my experience has been that most of these fail more than they succeed. Besides, I think Nels has added a new dimension to a lot of the older songs with what he brings with his style, the lap steel, etc.