mylifeisought Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I logged on this morning to check the Memphis setlist, and read about Jeff's (probably justified) blow-up at the woman with the cellphone last night, and it really made me start to wonder about the band's camera and photo policy, and whether or not it needs a revision. A week and a half ago, my wife and I were in the front row at the (amazing) Iowa City show. One of my long-time hobbies has been concert photography, and I tend to take about 100-200 pictures at any given show, usually in rapid bursts of 10 to 20 every ten minutes or so, knowing that I'll end up with 10 or 15 amazing shots from the night. I turn off my flash, I turn off the orange AF light, and, as much as I can, I even turn off my camera's screen. I try to be as unobtrusive as I can to the people around me at the gig, as well as to the band.But, for the whole evening, Jeff seemed to be shaking his head at various people. A couple of whom had iPhones up and were obviously videotaping, but many of us were definitely just taking pictures. I never saw him glaring directly at me, but at one point in time the woman next to me tapped me on the shoulder and said "He's shaking his head, there's no photography allowed." I politely corrected her that there was no flash allowed, but it was still perplexing. At each of the six Wilco shows I've been to, it has clearly stated on the Wilco website as well as often at the entry to the venue that non-flash photography is permitted. Now, in light of last night's events, I have to wonder if the band doesn't need to take a second look at its policies. As long as the band allows photography, people will be allowed to bring in something that doubles as a videocamera. It sounds like the show was disrupted more than once last night because of this issue. And I shouldn't have to worry that one of my favorite artists is pissed at me during a show for doing something that is clearly permitted in their current policies. I didn't take a single video that night.I fully understand Jeff's feeling on taking video live. Just because your cellphone can take video doesn't mean it's going to be any good. But I really don't see how the band's photo policy can have it both ways on this. Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThisIsNowhere Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Maybe he was just annoyed that people were taking pictures instead of enjoying the show. He's kind of famous for that kind of thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SarahC Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 you can take pictures and enjoy a show too... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mylifeisought Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 you can take pictures and enjoy a show too... Exactly. This is why, as I said, I take the pictures in quick bursts, not even checking how the pictures are. I figure I'll have some good ones by the end of the night, and it never fails. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SarahC Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Exactly. This is why, as I said, I take the pictures in quick bursts, not even checking how the pictures are. I figure I'll have some good ones by the end of the night, and it never fails.i do that too Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I'm definitely with Jeff on this one. I don't take photos on vacations or big trips or major events either, usually, because I always find that I enjoy the memories more. As far as the policy goes, nothing about it states that you won't be hassled by the band. I'm happiest when they're performing at they're best, and I'll bet they know the conditions under which they do that better than I do. If they can tell you're taking photos, then it is obtrusive. The proliferation of cameras has, for the worse in my opinion, altered the way a lot of people perceive a good portion of their reality. I find it annoying, too (not least of all because, even as a tall person, someone in front of me holding up their camera for half the show to get a photo/video is annoying as hell). Enjoy the show. Wilco has great photographers that take a lot of pictures at a lot of shows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Preferred B Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 There are valid arguments and opinions on both sides, as far as the whole philosophy of taking pictures. I agree: in this context, it just matters what the band prefers. It's up to them to figure out the best way to make that preference a reality (which seems like what Jeff has been trying to do, with limited success). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Alan Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 The proliferation of cameras has, for the worse in my opinion, altered the way a lot of people perceive a good portion of their reality. I find it annoying, too (not least of all because, even as a tall person, someone in front of me holding up their camera for half the show to get a photo/video is annoying as hell). You crack me up. There are valid arguments and opinions on both sides, as far as the whole philosophy of taking pictures. I agree: in this context, it just matters what the band prefers. It's up to them to figure out the best way to make that preference a reality (which seems like what Jeff has been trying to do, with limited success).As the OP said, just change the policy. That's all they have to do. I'm kind of rooting for a Ryan Adamsesque meltdown from Jeff though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Preferred B Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Changing the policy would definitely help, making it easier for security to address anyone with a camera. If you really wanted to go that route. Nothing short of an anti-video force field is going to eliminate the problem entirely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Changing the policy would definitely help, making it easier for security to address anyone with a camera. It doesn't sound to me like the band actually wants to ban photos outright (otherwise they would have changed their policy a while ago), just ban excessive or obtrusive photography (whether obstrusive to them or other concert-goers). The OP, taking a total of 100-200 photos over the course of rapid bursts every 10 minutes, was evidently noticeable to the band and others. Obviously, a policy that says "You can take photos, but not too many and not too obnoxiously," is impossible to enforce. On the other hand, that is the sort of thing that should also be able to go unsaid, along the lines of all sorts of behavior at concerts (sing along, but not too loudly or obnoxiously; dance, but don't whack other people; drink, but don't pass out or pick fights). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Analogman Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 People will still take photos/film with their cell phones. I don't think he is mad about people taking photos, but rather, so many of them taking photos in one place. And really, he is going on about people filming, not so much taking photos. He has been taking cameras away from people off and on for a while now. So that is nothing new. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Preferred B Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Yeah, a lot of things should be able to go unsaid. But, here we are. As everyone has pointed out, you can't reliably enforce "some pictures, but not too many, and also no video." It's either alter the official policy if it's worth it to do so, stop caring, or keep caring and keep bringing it up. Option two is easier said then done. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bleedorange Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Maybe Wilco should bring Larry David along to their shows to enforce all of the unwritten rules of society. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Runaway Jim Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 what's that line from Six Feet Under? "You can't take a picture of this, it already happened." that's how i feel about most pictures, especially concert pictures. i just enjoy the show. it's why i'm there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I have found that when I use my camera at shows I end up missing something either visually or music-wise that I would have been able to experience if I hadn't been taking pics. Worse, my pics generally turn out poorly. It's likely a combination of my meh camera and my meh skills. Therefore, I no longer waste my effort. Also, I have seen that most casual photographers do not take good quality pics, nor do they have good angles or capture "interesting" moments very well -- so I rarely even look at links posted here as it isn't worth my time. The band's web site however, is a great source of great pictures, so if I need a fix it is where I go. I'd rather have one great Charles Harris shot than a hundred of most amateur's shots. Now, If the band were to commit to having at least one professional photographer at every show and post the best ones, then they could ban photography without taking away anything. I doubt that will happen though. Possibly vetting a few local photographers (someone like Morgan comes to mind locally, though she is in NZ right now, or CreativeType in OK) and giving them access to take pictures that would be posted might work. This is a lot of effort, but could remove the most of problem at the source. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 It's likely a combination of my meh camera and my meh skills. I read this, "meth and my camera skills." they could ban photography without taking away anything. Anything except several hundred cameras and a few thousand cell phones per venue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Three dollars and 63 cents Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 you can take pictures and enjoy a show too... There are plenty of us who do this, and plenty of us who are polite and don't interfere with the people around us if we take pictures. But more and more at the last few shows I've been at, it's seemed that some people have been really rude about taking pictures--not caring if they're blocking someone's view over and over, using flash, seeming to pay 95% of their attention to their camera or phone and very little to the show. In Lewiston, there was a guy who tried to take a picture of himself with Jeff when Jeff was leaning down to let a kid play his guitar during Spiders, and he ruined the kid's moment. Wilco doesn't need to revise their camera policy. They just need to clearly state their no douchebag policy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Preferred B Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Now, If the band were to commit to having at least one professional photographer at every show and post the best ones, then they could ban photography without taking away anything. I doubt that will happen though. Possibly vetting a few local photographers (someone like Morgan comes to mind locally, though she is in NZ right now, or CreativeType in OK) and giving them access to take pictures that would be posted might work. This is a lot of effort, but could remove the most of problem at the source.I don't think this gets at why people who take photos at shows take photos at shows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Don't people who take photos at shows want a good picture of it? I do. I guess I don't care who takes it! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tstrapac Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Can someone explain why the flask bothered Jeff? Is it just that the person brought alcohol into the show and didn't buy it there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wendy Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I doubt JT gives a shit if you buy booze or not. More like it's so important to her to have her video memory (which the band requests nicely you NOT do), and in the process of breaking that rule decides to break another rule, bringing in alcohol (against the rules FOR SURE) and in the process being probably a shittier "videographer" on her iPhone or whatever "imperfect medium" she owns. Jesus. This isn't that hard to justify. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sweet Papa Crimbo Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 I used to have a rather neutral position on the taking of pictures and videos at concerts. Then I stood behind a douche who held up his stinking iphone taking 45 second video captures all night long. Hey...don't worry that your arms and iphone may be blocking the view of people behind you...you NEED that 45 second crappy video with horrible sound to validate your life. And there were dozens of people doing it...no wonder Jeff is starting to get pissed off. Maybe I'm just getting cranky in my old age, but the douche factor at the Dallas show seemed inordinatley high. Between the guy passing out in the crouw to the guys rolling (or just really drunk) that were hippy dancing to all the songs. It's bad enough that I am now experiencing Tinnitus from the really crappy sound levels. Now I have to worry about douches spilling beer on me or vomiting on my shoes. Nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Speed Racer Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Maybe I'm just getting cranky in my old age I don't think that has anything to do with it, really. I'm pretty sure my first sentence was, "Get off my lawn!" Now I have to worry about douches spilling beer on me or vomiting on my shoes. Have Wilco concerts ever been refined? I seem to remember some sort of incident with an array of projectile cold cuts... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mylifeisought Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 I guess I should clarify here. I'm not in favor of dickheads who hold a glowing screen aloft all night. But I was on the rail, with a clear shot at the band without obstructing anyone's view for the Iowa show. I use the rapid-shot function on my camera, take 15-20 pictures within 30 seconds, screen off, without looking at the shots I took, do that subtly six or seven times over the course of a night, and end up with some shots like the one I've attached. And a lot that suck. I'm conscious of the people around me, and I consider the "no video" signs to include shooting for YouTube. If told not to take pictures, I wouldn't, just like every time I see Bob Dylan. And Wilco might want to take a cue from Dylan and have the security people up front telling people not to take photos. Point is, is a very conscientious concertgoer, always trying to be aware of the people around me. If I'm at a show where the camera's going to bug people, I don't use it, or move to somewhere in the room where it's not a problem. But if Jeff's going to start glaring at anyone who whips out a camera (which, to some extent seemed to be the case in Iowa City), I really think they should just put a blanket ban down. I don't take photos at shows to try and prove I was there (as Jeff mentioned in Memphis), or to pad my Facebook photo albums. I do it because it's my hobby and I was a photo minor in college. I guess the way I see it is that this woman in Memphis should have put the damn phone down, people should stop filming everything for YouTube, but as long as Wilco continues to allow photography, I should be able to subtly continue to take photos without worrying I'm pissing off the band. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carlo3874 Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 What's wrong with you people? You want a nice photo of tweedy to put next to Grandma in the family photo album. Put the stupid camera/video/phone away and enjoy the damn the show. Why do you clowns feel the need to document every f-ing moment in the your f-ing stupid phone/camera/video contraption. I didn't know so many people suffer from short-term memory loss. Morons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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