2012 President?

[KevinG]

Evil corporations! They should give their fair share! Everything should be fair! My parents were so wrong when they told me over and over again that life is not fair.

But seriously, what is a free tax break? Do you not deserve....is it not "fair" to keep money that you made? Isn't that money yours? I don't see how it's free. Took a job to make it.

 

People and corporations operate in a society. Living in a society cost money. Where do you think the roads came from, where do you think the schools that your neighborhood kids go to comes from, where do you think a social safety net comes from? Taxes. People who operate in society have to contribute to society. If there were no taxes this country would fall in to a catastrophic disarray beyond anything we have seen.

 

Everyone, including corporations, need to pay taxes, it is the cost of living in our society. Living in America ain't free buddy. If you don't like taxes then you have to find a society that doesn't have any.

 

So yes the money you make is yours, however there is a price we all have to pay for living in America. If you don't pay taxes and enjoy what our society has to offer you are stealing.

[Winston Legthigh]

People and corporations operate in a society. Living in a society cost money. Where do you think the roads came from, where do you think the schools that your neighborhood kids go to comes from, where do you think a social safety net comes from? Taxes. People who operate in society have to contribute to society. If there were no taxes this country would fall in to a catastrophic disarray beyond anything we have seen.

 

Everyone, including corporations, need to pay taxes, it is the cost of living in our society. Living in America ain't free buddy. If you don't like taxes then you have to find a society that doesn't have any.

 

So yes the money you make is yours, however there is a price we all have to pay for living in America. If you don't pay taxes and enjoy what our society has to offer you are stealing.

 

You've summed up what my impressions are about our country in the past few years - everyone here loves the country club, but nobody wants to pay for membership dues.

[KevinG]

You've summed up what my impressions are about our country in the past few years - everyone here loves the country club, but nobody wants to pay for membership dues.

 

Perfect analogy. I was trying to think of one and that is apt.

[Tweedling]

Buddy.... I'm well aware of how the roads and schools and policemen and firemen and every other civil service is paid for. My point is there is no free tax break. If you qualify then you have earned it. Something people have lost sight of in this country. Everyone thinks they deserve something just for showing up. Living in America is not free. We agree. However, some people think it's their right to have free stuff just by being in America. I think the analogy IS perfect! Thank you WL. I pay a whole lotta taxes. Believe me buddy. More than the services I use.

[caliber66]

Buddy.... I'm well aware of how the roads and schools and policemen and firemen and every other civil service is paid for. My point is there is no free tax break. If you qualify then you have earned it. Something people have lost sight of in this country. Everyone thinks they deserve something just for showing up. Living in America is not free. We agree. However, some people think it's their right to have free stuff just by being in America. I think the analogy IS perfect! Thank you WL. I pay a whole lotta taxes. Believe me buddy. More than the services I use.

 

So poor people who don't make enough money to pay income tax have earned their tax break as well, right?

[Tweedling]

So poor people who don't make enough money to pay income tax have earned their tax break as well, right?

Nope

 

[KevinG]

Buddy.... I'm well aware of how the roads and schools and policemen and firemen and every other civil service is paid for. My point is there is no free tax break. If you qualify then you have earned it. Something people have lost sight of in this country. Everyone thinks they deserve something just for showing up. Living in America is not free. We agree. However, some people think it's their right to have free stuff just by being in America. I think the analogy IS perfect! Thank you WL. I pay a whole lotta taxes. Believe me buddy. More than the services I use.

 

It is true that the current tax law allows for tax breaks, they are there, when corporations use them they are not breaking the law. It is in their right as a company to keep as much of their money as they can. But is that moral? Who is really getting stuff for free? Is women and families who are getting "free" birth control (which is not free cause last I checked you still have to pay health care premiums) or the GE which has an outstanding loan to the government of 1.043 billion?

 

Is it then fair for GE to pay a negative tax rate? It is fair the effective tax rate for corporations to be 12.1% whereas the tax rate for the middle class is somewhere closer to 20%? So you pay "a whole lotta taxes" and 30 of America's most profitable paid nothing in the last 3 years. Corporations simply are not paying their share. They are holding on to their cash, many times out of the country, and not reinvesting back to their companies, not hiring, basically just sitting on it.

 

I am saying close the loop holes, make the tax rate more equiable for corporations and for people.

 

BTW your use of "Buddy" makes you sound real dickish. i am not your buddy.

[Tweedling]

I guess it's a question then of morality. Not sure I trust big corporations but I'm also not buying into the belief that they are evil because they are profitable or qualify for tax breaks. They still run and operate using American workers (for the most part) and those jobs are also what we need.

BTW I found it humorous when you called me buddy because you're right, you're not my buddy and that is fair.

[KevinG]

I guess it's a question then of morality. Not sure I trust big corporations but I'm also not buying into the belief that they are evil because they are profitable or qualify for tax breaks. They still run and operate using American workers (for the most part) and those jobs are also what we need.

BTW I found it humorous when you called me buddy because you're right, you're not my buddy and that is fair.

 

Never said they were evil, just saying the current tax system favors corporations, it should be changed. They are not reinvesting in America, nor for the most part are they giving back to their shareholders, they are sitting on their cash.

 

When people complain about the "free stuff" people are getting (i.e. social programs) they tend ignore the fact that America has been operating a corporate welfare system for years. The current republicans (and many democrats for that matter) want to continue this system, we can't afford that. Everyone needs to pay their share.

 

I pay taxes, you pay taxes, I am not outraged if someone who makes under 20K (and uses social welfare programs) doesn't pay taxes, but I am outraged when a corporation who makes billions and billions (and get's billions from the government) doesn't pay taxes. If these corporations used the tax breaks to reinvest, to hire, or pay back their governmental loans it would be a different story, they simply are not. Corporate profits are at record highs, but yet unemployment is at 8.5% or higher. Have average salaries increased?

 

BTW, I forgot I called you buddy (didn't mean too cause I really hate that term), I guess I am the dick. We have fully determined we are not buddies, but I would say I am a well wisher, in that I don't wish you any particular harm.

[Tweedling]

All we have to do is die and pay taxes. Ha! We can all agree to disagree. No offense taken. thumbs up

[Shakespeare In The Alley]

I would say I am a well wisher, in that I don't wish you any particular harm.

Excellent Moe reference.

[caliber66]

Nope

Well, they have qualified for the tax break.

 

If you qualify then you have earned it.

[lost highway]

Wait a minute, corporations should get tax breaks because it's dumb for Americans to think things are free?

 

Or

 

You shouldn't insist the government close tax loop holes because the corporations qualified for them?

 

Those arguments don't look very good.

[ih8music]

Nobody likes paying taxes, myself included. I'm self employed, so I pay double to the feds for SS/Medicare. Last year, I paid more in taxes than many people make in a year. It sucks.

 

That said, we're in a society that makes choices on what social services we want to provide, what wars we want to engage in, what industries we want to support/bail out. I don't agree with every dollar that the gov't spends in my name, but I realize there's a tradeoff.

 

I would rather we all pay a ton of money in taxes and then we all decide to cut back on certain things vs. what we've been doing for the past couple of decades (since Reagan)... recklessly cutting taxes across the board without decreasing spending (and actually increasing it).

 

As for what's "fair" to pay, I would support a flat tax rate as long as there's a floor to it to protect the very poor - i.e. the first $30-40K of earnings are untaxed. But in order to do that, all deductions and other loopholes would have to be eliminated & I'm not sure people/corporate interests would be willing to give those things up.

 

I don't demonize the very wealthy, but I do think they can afford to pay more than others. Similarly, I don't demonize multi-national corporations, but I also don't think we should be rewarding them for moving American jobs overseas and participating in "creative" accounting practices to avoid paying US taxes.

[Tweedling]

 

Well, they have qualified for the tax break.

I'm pretty sure if you file correctly you can get some money back or maybe not pay at all. Although I'm no CPA. I've been dirt poor and managed to not once pay or be unable to pay my income tax. Of course I live in Texas and we have no state income tax.

[Tweedling]

Wait a minute, corporations should get tax breaks because it's dumb for Americans to think things are free?

 

Or

 

You shouldn't insist the government close tax loop holes because the corporations qualified for them?

 

Those arguments don't look very good.

I like what you've done there.

[bjorn_skurj]

Oh man. If I did not have to pay, oh, just shy of 10 grand in taxes (not including the $2300 or so in Medicare/Soc. Sec., as I am hoping to get that back at some point) on a just shy of 40 grand gross income, that would RULE. What candidate is pushing that plan?

[IRememberDBoon]

ron paul. hes gonna have citizens pave the roads and light the streets themselves.

[KevinG]

So, (and I have said this before) unless God himself comes down and makes Rick Santorum the GOP nominee, it appears it will be Mitt v Obama in Nov.

 

My question to those right leaning people out there. Are you gonna vote this guy? If so why? Is just the fact that he is not Obama, or do you have some convictions? I am not trying to be snarky I am truly interested in why someone would vote Mitt.

[ih8music]

I suspect this election will be like 2004 in reverse. Very few people I know who voted for Kerry were actually voting for him; most of us were casting a vote against Bush. I think many/most people voting for Romney in the fall will be doing it as a vote against Obama more than anything else.

 

Not saying that's wrong; just my observation based on how the Republicans I know are talking about their choices in general, and Romney in particular.

 

It wasn't enough for Kerry; we'll have to see if it's going to be enough for Romney.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

I suspect this election will be like 2004 in reverse. Very few people I know who voted for Kerry were actually voting for him; most of us were casting a vote against Bush. I think many/most people voting for Romney in the fall will be doing it as a vote against Obama more than anything else.

 

Not saying that's wrong; just my observation based on how the Republicans I know are talking about their choices in general, and Romney in particular.

 

It wasn't enough for Kerry; we'll have to see if it's going to be enough for Romney.

 

Or like 1996

[IRememberDBoon]

so when republicans spew this new horseshit line about half of us not paying taxes are they tlkaing baout children and elderly?

[Beltmann]

Not all conservatives are willing to spew that nonsense. Ramesh Ponnuru, a leading conservative thinker, wrote a piece for NRO called "The Freeloader Myth."

[LouieB]

Not all conservatives are willing to spew that nonsense. Ramesh Ponnuru, a leading conservative thinker, wrote a piece for NRO called "The Freeloader Myth."

quoteTo use an old expression...that is very white of him. Yea, of course this guy is clearly NOT white, but that still won't stop the high profile conservatives from painting the problem of poor people and benefits that we all get as the problem. Honest and level headed conservatives are in the minority of those giving loud opinions.

 

It continues to go without saying that NO ONE, right or left is interested in a huge deficent, because that doesn't benefit anyone. (There was an interesting article in the NY Times Magazine last week that I have not fiinshed about how the budget talks fell apart last year.) Barack Obama is hardly the socialist he is portrayed as by the right wing hate spewers. He has made every effort to come to a compromise with the Republican House leadership to the detriment of his own standing among his base. So this election is really going to come down to whether they want to stand behind him or let the right elect Mitt Romney. As always there are days I think that we ought to just let the right do this. He can't get gas prices down and I am betting he can't get employment up either. But it may have to take a Democratic loss to prove this to everyone.

 

LouieB

[IRememberDBoon]

"But it may have to take a Democratic loss to prove this to everyone."

 

already did that when those jackasses talked junk on gore in 2000 and some voted for Nader.

 

 

perfect example of the american people taking great leadership for granted and being completely short sighted.

 

 

then came Kerry and i dont know what happened. the morning after kerry lost i went into a funk (there was some anti gay vote involved as well that made me very angry. i was living in dupont circle DC at the time and surrounded by loving gay couples and i knew they were whats good in america)

 

anyway for a few years i stopped reading my usual political bios and so forth and focused on trying not to let president bush affect me in any way. luckily things got better in iraq so that was good.

 

i was even still weary in 08 but after the president has been at it now for awhile it makes me sick to see the same script they used against clinton being played out once again and people falling for it is even worse. but we NEVER need to get anymore proven to us again and anyone that lived thru bush and doesnt see this need a head check