bleedorange Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I don't think we got suckered. I think we didn't expect a congress that would not work with him. granted, being a liberal too, there are a lot of things that haven't happened that he said would happen, but he has worked with the most stubborn, do-nothing congress that I have ever witnessed in my life. consider the alternative - McCain/Palin. anyway, what does that have to do with people that dismiss climate change? it irritates the crap out of me when I have to convince someone that it exists. even my Republican step-father agrees that climate change has and is taking place.It's okay to admit that Obama has been an ineffective leader up to this point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoJ Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 really not sure if that is hard scientific proof, leadership experience are subjective. Agreed. I couldnt come up with any other fact based scenarios where the Left was acting loco. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Whether or not Al Gore is an energy-hogging hypocrite doesn't change the facts and data that support the climate change thesis he espouses. And there are also facts and data that don't support the thesis he espouses. When I was a teenager scientists were warning of an impending ice age, now it's global warming, but perhaps there will be cooling because of diminished solar activity -- and on and on it goes. When someone's argument concludes with 'the science is settled" the first thing I assume is that it's anything but. Add in the fact that trillions of dollars stand to be made and lost and I will always be skeptical of "the sky is falling" proponents of the issue of the day. I'll believe it's a crisis when the loudest proponents start acting like it's a crisis. It seems to be the M.O. of those that lean to the right. I just tried to do a search of the forums for how many of your posts mention "the right" but the search function doesn't seem to be working. Is there any arguments from the right that are based on fairly solid proven evidence that the left denies?Let's see: gun crimes are down despite there being millions of additional guns being in American homes, concealed handgun license holders commit crimes at a fraction of the rate of the general public, more people are killed with bare hands and feet than by so-called "assault rifles" and there are already laws against murder, but the urge to ban guns continues unabated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 The greenhouse effect is a fact. A character judgement on the people trying to help you understand it won't change the data; they indicate that the temperature has been steadily rising by significant levels, the sea levels are rising, and the glaciers are shrinking. Debate over. Where you're getting lost on the issue, is simultaneously why there is so much willful ignorance channeling disinformation: the reality of this problem challenges almost every aspect of modern life. It's easy to criticize geologists in SUVs, but that's not really grounds for taking apart their scientific work. Most people who understand climate change in the abstract are not prepared to make the massive life changes to effectively combat it. If this contradiction seems singular you can find working parallels in the behaviors of cigarette smokers, or in people with known cholesterol problems that overeat. The biggest difference for this particular version of behavior with known disastrous consequences is that the greatest damage will occur after our life time. This paradigm is an essential part of the modern American psyche, indeed much of our economy is dependent on this kind of cognitive dissonance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Winston Legthigh Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I'll believe it's a crisis when the loudest proponents start acting like it's a crisis. So, if you learn that Gore has already retrofitted his house with solar panels, rain-water collecting do-hickeys, and geo-thermal heating system, we're all good? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 So, if you learn that Gore has already retrofitted his house with solar panels, rain-water collecting do-hickeys, and geo-thermal heating system, we're all good?Let me know when he starts peddling a bike or riding a human-powered aircraft to all of his engagements and then we'll call it good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Let me know when he starts peddling a bike or riding a human-powered aircraft to all of his engagements and then we'll call it good. Your obsession with what AL Gore does or doesn't do is kind weird. Lost Highway said it best earlier when he said "It's easy to criticize geologists in SUVs, but that's not really grounds for taking apart their scientific work. Most people who understand climate change in the abstract are not prepared to make the massive life changes to effectively combat it." As for your gun law argument (as something with hard proof that the Left Deines), it is close to what I was trying to get at. BUt really there is has much evidence as such that gun laws do in fact work and do dramatically reduce the amount of crime. FOr example most other industrial countries with gun laws. And you clearly have something to say about me using the term "the right," as you would not search for it. I am not sure what you are getting at. Kinda wish you would explain, cause that could be interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Let me know when he starts peddling a bike or riding a human-powered aircraft to all of his engagements and then we'll call it good.Why would Al Gore selling a bicycle convince you that he's taking global climate change seriously? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Why would Al Gore selling a bicycle convince you that he's taking global climate change seriously? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring Edit: 66rebilac. I only just now realized that you had your own cheeky turn for the argument, while I had another: sarcasm mis-referencing ironic comedy... oops Meanwhile, is Hixter convinced of either a. the proper homonym usage, or b. logically sound basis for an argument? Or c, will Al Gore selling a fish bicycle to stop carbon emission help people find their way to the facts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 I think he meant to write pedaling.Damn, I love when the thread takes a turn toward grammar and spelling! My inner English major is delighted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uncool2pillow Posted March 13, 2014 Author Share Posted March 13, 2014 Your obsession with what AL Gore does or doesn't do is kind weird. I think your obsession with a small but vocal minority of our nation's population (tea partiers and other extreme right-wingers) is also kind of weird. History is obviously against them with gay marriage, marijuana laws, decreasing church attendance, etc. Why get yourself so worked up about it? On the other hand, Gore wants to be known as the guy who fought against global warming and create a bunch of regulations for all of us to follow while his carbon footprint is probably 1000x larger than the average American's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I think your obsession with a small but vocal minority of our nation's population (tea partiers and other extreme right-wingers) is also kind of weird. History is obviously against them with gay marriage, marijuana laws, decreasing church attendance, etc. Why get yourself so worked up about it? On the other hand, Gore wants to be known as the guy who fought against global warming and create a bunch of regulations for all of us to follow while his carbon footprint is probably 1000x larger than the average American's.The far right is extremely vocal and wields a lot of power. It is important to discuss them. Not only do they mostly control the congress, they have a consortium of media outlets. Yes they are on the wrong side of history, but with that much power, it is important to point out their foibles. Also I find it interesting, how truly ignorant they are, it is astounding. Also not getting worked up, just putting ideas on a message board dedicated to a mid level rock band with a solid fan base. Whereas Al Gore hasn't really been in the news for like 5 years. That is weird. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/13/houston-dad-fatally-shoots-teen-inside-daughters-room-report-says/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk2%26pLid%3D453674 Wow, it's amazing what kinds of things you learn when you occasionally read a Fox News story. Sad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Radiant Witch Face Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 It's okay to admit that Obama has been an ineffective leader up to this point. that's not how I feel, so I have nothing to admit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 anyone who has seen House of Cards knows that a truly effective leader can get things done even with an obstinate legislature. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 that's not how I feel, so I have nothing to admit. It is mostly sad really. When the Dems had control of both houses and the presidency they didn't do much to push their agenda and when they did try something big ala ACA it kind of blew up in their faces. Not necessarily the law itself (which IMHO is flawed but over all good), but the reaction from the Right and the American people. It lead to the rise and strength of the TEA party, which moved moderate Republicans farther to the Right. You now have a congress controlled by a group who has an innate unwillingness to work with the President. He is called weak and ineffectual. But when he uses a constitutionally approved action (ie the Executive Order) to push his agenda (an agenda BTW 51.1% of voting Americans voted for) he is called a power mad tyrant. Basically PBO is damned either way. I just wish the Right would work with instead of against the President. Also the President needs to be more accepting of what the Right has to offer. The model of obstructionism has been set. It will be very unlikely that in the next 8 years one party will control the Senate, Congress, and the presidency again. So we will continually have the country mired in stagnation. Slowly chugging along vacillating between recovery and recession. When maybe if the two parties can work together, something good could happen. anyone who has seen House of Cards knows that a truly effective leader can get things done even with an obstinate legislature. But you know, that is completely fictitious, right? I worked in DC for a Senator and there are so many inaccuracies it boggles the mind. Still an awesome show though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
calvino Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 anyone who has seen House of Cards knows that a truly effective leader can get things done even with an obstinate legislature. Exactly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoJ Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 For lunch today I dined on some Israeli fare. My belly is so happy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 that's very political. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoJ Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 All these topics confuse me. I hardly know where I'm posting. Primaries are Tuesday. Make your vote count! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 For lunch today I dined on some Israeli fare. My belly is so happy. Why do you hate the two state solution? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I was a Republican before it was cool Most political ads are generally tone deaf and pandering, but really this takes the cake. It is good to know that you are Republican because you support the exact same energy policy of the White House. “We can’t have an energy strategy for the last century that traps us in the past. We need an energy strategy for the future – an all-of-the-above strategy for the 21st century that develops every source of American-made energy.” - President Barack Obama, March 15, 2012 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Atticus Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 I was a Republican before it was cool Weird. I definitely would not have pegged you as a Republican. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinG Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 Weird. I definitely would not have pegged you as a Republican. I did work for a very conservative Senator in DC in the late 90's. But like I said before it was cool, like mr. small jacket and big glasses man. I mean I surprised they didn't have him with a sixer of PBR tall boys, on his way to kickball league. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IRememberDBoon Posted March 21, 2014 Share Posted March 21, 2014 kickball league was big in DC in the 90s and probably still is. I was in a couple of themReally any reason to get out on the Mall when it gets warm is nice though. So beautiful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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