Eternal Instigator Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Yup, set a band or any star on a pedestal and they will let you down. The lawmakers who created the law are to blame, not the band. If you "were" as big a fan as you claim, you wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised by their decision to cancel nor would you hold it against them for taking a stand on the causes they believe in because they've been actively committed to social causes like this for years and years. The guys are savvy businessmen and they understand, as most of us do, that protesting doesn't bring change like it used to - withholding the almighty dollar is, unfortunately, the fastest way to change. And enough with the "they better cancel shows in all those other states with the RFRA laws or all of them because of the federal law Clinton signed...blah, blah, blah." Since you refuse to educate yourself on those other laws but feel the need to keep repeating less than factual statements, let me summarize using easy to read bullet points. I'm using the articles that others have previously posted links to, but have apparently been ignored:South Carolina's is the only other one that specifically says for-profit businesses are allowed to assert a right to 'the free exercise of religion'". Most others either do not mention the term "for-profit" or specifically exclude "for-profit" businesses from their RFRAs.Texas' RFRA is the only other one that allows the use of religion as a defense against private suits by another individual rather than just government actions. However...The 1999 Texas RFRA exempted land use laws and human rights laws.The RFRA's that were enacted by the Federal gov't and states 10+ years ago were "understood to be limited by the rights of others". It is only now, after most same-sex marriage bans have been ruled unconstitutional that backasswards states are trying to change their RFRA's to allow discrimination of individuals by for-profit businesses on religious grounds. I think the really sad part is how shamelessly selfish the "angry fans" are acting. It's just a freaking rock show and, because it's Wilco, there will be plenty more because touring is how they pay the bills. You're missing a concert while your neighbors might be kicked out of a cafe for holding a partner's hand, or fired from their jobs, or kicked out of their apartments simply because they turned out gay. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Instigator Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I came to this site originally, for 1 reason and 1 reason only, to read the after show reviews from the great bbop and now realize that is a great idea to go back too.Bye bye. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AndersonTaxi Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Guess they need to cancel shows in Texas, Louisiana, Missouri, Kentucky and Arizona. They all have the same, or very similar, law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Instigator Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Guess they need to cancel shows in Texas, Louisiana, Missouri, Kentucky and Arizona. They all have the same, or very similar, law.Yay! Another obvious troll! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ditty Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Bye bye. later Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The lawmakers who created the law are to blame, not the band. If you "were" as big a fan as you claim, you wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised by their decision to cancel nor would you hold it against them for taking a stand on the causes they believe in because they've been actively committed to social causes like this for years and years. I can't help but agree with this. If I lived in IN, I would be horribly disappointed that the show was being canceled, especially if I'd already bought tickets, but "full refund" does mean I could still get tickets to a show only two hours away, as others have stated. I was somewhat mystified to see a comment on the Facebook page which read, "Music is music. Keep politics out of it." Normally, I don't respond to such posts if I don't actually know the person, but I couldn't help but post, "Ever heard of Woody Guthrie? Pete Seeger? Phil Ochs? Might want to check 'em out." The idea that Wilco as a performing entity, or Jeff as a singer, must be "apolitical" is just absurd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I can't help but agree with this. If I lived in IN, I would be horribly disappointed that the show was being canceled, especially if I'd already bought tickets, but "full refund" does mean I could still get tickets to a show only two hours away, as others have stated.But they would probably be worse seats if they're at reserved seating venues and they'd require a car instead of public transport. Then there's the cost of gas and maybe a hotel room and meals. In the end, it would be an inconvenience for the people in Indianapolis. My guess is that the show will go on as planned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Instigator Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I was somewhat mystified to see a comment on the Facebook page which read, "Music is music. Keep politics out of it." Normally, I don't respond to such posts if I don't actually know the person, but I couldn't help but post, "Ever heard of Woody Guthrie? Pete Seeger? Phil Ochs? Might want to check 'em out." The idea that Wilco as a performing entity, or Jeff as a singer, must be "apolitical" is just absurd.I saw that one too! Politics and ideology have been an integral part of music and all forms of art since, well, forever. The part of that statement that really got me was the arrogance of someone trying to tell someone else what they should or should not be writing about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tinnitus photography Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 hey, there's always Ted Nugent, Charlie Daniels, and Kid Rock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Heartbreak Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The Stones, too. They are playing there this summer, and they don't give a shit about American politics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Instigator Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 But they would probably be worse seats if they're at reserved seating venues and they'd require a car instead of public transport. Then there's the cost of gas and maybe a hotel room and meals. In the end, it would be an inconvenience for the people in Indianapolis. My guess is that the show will go on as planned.Based on the number of IN fans who have come out criticizing them for their decision (which I'm sure was not taken lightly), I'd be surprised if it did. Personally, I'm not sure I'd want to be in that audience. It's one thing to be disappointed but understanding because this was Tweedy & Co standing up for something in which they strongly believe and doing it in a way they felt would have the most impact (Indiana's wallet). Quite another to be disappointed and telling them they made a mistake or suggesting it was a PR stunt. Wilco is pretty good to their fans (they love us, baby!) and, as I said, I'm sure it was a really hard decision for them to make for that reason alone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ditty Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Based on the number of IN fans who have come out criticizing them for their decision (which I'm sure was not taken lightly), I'd be surprised if it did. Personally, I'm not sure I'd want to be in that audience. It's one thing to be disappointed but understanding because this was Tweedy & Co standing up for something in which they strongly believe and doing it in a way they felt would have the most impact (Indiana's wallet). Quite another to be disappointed and telling them they made a mistake or suggesting it was a PR stunt. Wilco is pretty good to their fans (they love us, baby!) and, as I said, I'm sure it was a really hard decision for them to make for that reason alone. 2,500 tickets at $60 = $150,000, Live Nation was the promoter and we have NO ticket tax. The only people that lost were the fans, local restaurants and a corporation that few care about = no wallet impact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mizzy Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 So that we're clear, people who are mad at the cancellation (other than the people with tickets in hand) are supportive of the legislation, correct? Otherwise why take the time to complain about it and site incorrect information ("But other states have this same law") as your justification? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eternal Instigator Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 2,500 tickets at $60 = $150,000, Live Nation was the promoter and we have NO ticket tax. The only people that lost were the fans, local restaurants and a corporation that few care about = no wallet impact. Those local businesses will bring their lost revenue to the attention of their lawmakers. Again, blame those who enacted the law, not the businesses, bands, etc. who are exercising their rights by refusing to do business in the state until the law is changed. You should also notice that those groups who have pulled business from the state ARE having an impact, at least it appears that way based on the latest words out of Pence's mouth. He's still refusing to acknowledge that the law legalized discrimination, but the wheels are in motion. Protesting or donating ticket proceeds to HRC or other groups wouldn't have had such quick results. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ditty Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Those local businesses will bring their lost revenue to the attention of their lawmakers. Again, blame those who enacted the law, not the businesses, bands, etc. who are exercising their rights by refusing to do business in the state until the law is changed. You should also notice that those groups who have pulled business from the state ARE having an impact, at least it appears that way based on the latest words out of Pence's mouth. He's still refusing to acknowledge that the law legalized discrimination, but the wheels are in motion. Protesting or donating ticket proceeds to HRC or other groups wouldn't have had such quick results. (see post 56) The NCAA, Gen Con, Angie's List + many city / states not paying for travel to Indiana have made the difference in this change, not Wilco as a few want to believe. Pence will not change this law that he has so proudly supported. He was one of the first teabaggers on the train. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
four dollars Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 You are right on here. Take the chance to encourage the 2300 liberals in the audience to make sure they go and vote. I don't understand how cancelling this show had any economic repercussions on the state or governor. The local restaurants that service the liberal crowds that go to concerts at Old National, yes. The liberal fans of the band, yes. Governor, no. I see impact, but not where it would be best served. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Magnetized Posted March 31, 2015 Author Share Posted March 31, 2015 I don't think this has been posted here yet. It's the best piece I've read on the subject. http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/03/wilco-and-the-concern-trolls-tweedy-and-co-cancel.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I don't think this has been posted here yet. It's the best piece I've read on the subject. http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2015/03/wilco-and-the-concern-trolls-tweedy-and-co-cancel.htmlThis is a key quote from the article: The implications aren’t totally clear, but there is now a possible legal shield for private corporations who refuse service to gay customers.Perhaps it would have been best to wait until the law had actually been used to discriminate against someone. Although it would seem that the band would then be off the hook for refusing service to customers in Indiana. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the character and opinions of the designers of the law speak to its intention. The key figures here all have been quoted as denying gay rights in one shade or another. I'll hunt down the article if you think I'm shooting wind here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Plumplechook Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I think the character and opinions of the designers of the law speak to its intention. The key figures here all have been quoted as denying gay rights in one shade or another. I'll hunt down the article if you think I'm shooting wind here.This. I think Stephen King put it most succinctly in a Twitter posting yesterday: 'Indiana's Religious Freedom Restoration act is gay discrimination, pure and simple. You can frost a dog turd, but it's still a dog turd'. Gotta love the trolls who've signed up here in the last couple of days just to dump on the band (all using the same discredited talking points). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jw harding Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 The financial impact is hard to calculate, but probably not significant. It has brought some attention to the issue, but again hard to calculate what the political impact will be. But it seems Wilco did not feel comfortable playing in Indiana, as it would compromise their moral convictions, which is kinda what this is all about, right? Sorry Hoosiers, as retarded as you are, you are still not a protected class of citizens. Fuck off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Sorry Hoosiers, as retarded as you are, you are still not a protected class of citizens. Fuck off. Ah, a shining example of inclusiveness, friendliness and openminded thinking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hixter Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Any shows scheduled for Little Rock? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/01/us/religious-freedom-restoration-act-arkansas-indiana.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jw harding Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Ah, a shining example of inclusiveness, friendliness and openminded thinking.I thought it was pretty clever. This is the internet. Lighten up, nerd. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hwllo Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 This is a key quote from the article: Perhaps it would have been best to wait until the law had actually been used to discriminate against someone. Although it would seem that the band would then be off the hook for refusing service to customers in Indiana. Woah, really? It's a law with wording that could allow businesses to discriminate like that and your response is wait and see? Seriously, what's wrong with you? Let's not call out vague wording on a bill that could allow such a thing until people are actually discriminated against? Wow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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