Indiana show canceled!

[Doug C]

Again, I agree with Hixter, a couple of posts up. If you analyze it, the hypocrisy is obvious. But if you analyze most stances, you can find inconsistencies. It is just as reasonable for someone to be bothered by the inconsistencies of Wilco's stance as it is reasonable for someone to applaud Wilco for taking a stand.

[thejokeexplained]

 

 Discrimination is everywhere, hateful people will be hateful people, WE can't change everything and everybody quickly.  As this older generation dies off, this country WILL be a better place, but right now, this country and our world is an absolute mess and a little fun for one night on THU May 7 would have given all us ticket holders a bit of release, but according to a few board members we are to get over it and move on.

Oh my God did i just read this? Talk about the Millennial elitist, me first, fuck everyone else attitude. That is one central reason why the world if fucked up! This self centered boo hoo, i didn't get what i want everyone is out to get me, no respect for others bullshit. As this older generation dies off? Really? you think that's the problem with "our" world? Look first in the mirror. Seems to me the world is more fucked up now that the new generation started showing up.

[LouieB]

This is a pretty pathetic thread here.  Lots of folks have chimed in on the side I believe.  This is a rock band cancelling one show because they believe it is right.  If you don't like it, find another band to obsess about.  Those of you who think Wilco did the wrong thing are pathetic.  Remember people, the band DOES read this stuff.  Wilco tours pretty constantly and in all parts of the world.  They are not here to meet your every need.  They have given us so much over the last two decades. Even if you feel like they haven't put out great albums lately they always put on great shows.  Jeff even played a week after his mother died (in Indiana by the way.) And again, if you don't like their politics there are thousands of bands out there, find one who you agree with and go see them.  Just amazing.  Those of you bitching and complaining about hypocrisy are a bunch of losers. 

 

And at this point they may actually reschedule this thing in the very near future, who knows.

 

LouieB

[Doug C]

Since I don't believe that I was bitching about hypocrisy - merely pointing out that a logical case can be made that it is an inconsistent stance - I don't believe that I am a loser.

[ditty]

Oh my God did i just read this? Talk about the Millennial elitist, me first, fuck everyone else attitude. That is one central reason why the world if fucked up! This self centered boo hoo, i didn't get what i want everyone is out to get me, no respect for others bullshit. As this older generation dies off? Really? you think that's the problem with "our" world? Look first in the mirror. Seems to me the world is more fucked up now that the new generation started showing up.

 

Again, you don't know me.  You won't find me on Facebook, Twitter or any other look at me, look what' I'm doing, look at what I got or got to do Millennial elitist bullshit, to quote yourself.

[Hixter]

If they were filling up twitter with rants against the GOP I'd say you have something.

Jeff Tweedy has a long history of speaking his mind from the stage, especially during elections. It was all red state, blue state nonsense -- typical "our team vs theirs" political polarization -- but it's his stage, so he can do as he sees fit. I remember groaning when he said something like "we're all one, let's stop bickering" after Obama's victory, since it came on the heels of so many red vs blue jibes from the stage over the last several months.

 

I can also understand that for a republican to mix in a community of Wilco fans it must be easy to feel like an outsider.  

I don't really consider myself to be a Republican. I'm registered with the party so that I can take part in primaries, but I vote based on the candidates, not their parties. I was intrigued by Obama's soaring speeches in the 2008 election and I was happy to see an African American in the White House, but his campaign seemed to be based on "I'm not George W. Bush" and a bunch of wispy dreams that didn't seem obtainable in the harsh light of reality, so I didn't wind up voting for him.

 

I don't feel like an outsider here. I think diversity is a great thing, and that includes diversity in political opinions. I can discuss touchy subjects with people who hold opposing viewpoints for hours as long as the conversation remains civil. It's only when someone forgets their manners or hints that I'm a racist or homophobe that I get annoyed. I'll still continue conversing politely, but if the ugliness continues I'll stop speaking, rather than stoop to ugliness myself.

 

Labels are worthless. Red states and blue states don't exist. The stereotypical Republican (or Democrat) doesn't exist. Do I sound like a stereotypical Republican?

 

I was raised in a middle class family.

 

I knocked my girlfriend up, so I married her and joined the Army to provide for my family.

 

We were divorced and I received custody of the kids at ages 1 and 2. My ex never paid a dime in support, or even saw the kids very much.

 

I put myself through college as a single parent and even received food stamps for a short time.

 

I don't go to church.

 

I believe in evolution.

 

I can't fathom how someone can have an abortion, but I don't think it should be illegal.

 

My brother is gay and I love him dearly. Same-sex marriage doesn't bother me.

 

I'm against the death penalty, for the most part.

 

I'm unemployed.

 

I have a lot of very liberal friends and several years ago one of them told me that I'd changed her mind about Republicans. She said that she thought she had only Democrat friends, but realized that the ones who didn't talk politics with her were probably Republicans who were afraid to mention it and she thought that was terrible. There needs to be more of that in this country, because the extremists on both sides of the aisle are outnumbered by the moderates. The extremists just like to yell more loudly.

[ditty]

This is a pretty pathetic thread here.  Lots of folks have chimed in on the side I believe.  This is a rock band cancelling one show because they believe it is right.  If you don't like it, find another band to obsess about.  Those of you who think Wilco did the wrong thing are pathetic.  Remember people, the band DOES read this stuff.  Wilco tours pretty constantly and in all parts of the world.  They are not here to meet your every need.  They have given us so much over the last two decades. Even if you feel like they haven't put out great albums lately they always put on great shows.  Jeff even played a week after his mother died (in Indiana by the way.) And again, if you don't like their politics there are thousands of bands out there, find one who you agree with and go see them.  Just amazing.  Those of you bitching and complaining about hypocrisy are a bunch of losers. 

 

And at this point they may actually reschedule this thing in the very near future, who knows.

 

LouieB

 

Thank you for the reminder they read this stuff, this IS the reason I posted here.  Most of us here do agree with their politics but not how they took a stand on this LGBT issue.  

 

To somewhat quote Jeff on playing Indiana after the sad death of his mother, he said something along the line "this is what his mother would have wanted", and I truly believed him and felt very sad at this show for such an incredible loss.

 

As for the possibility to reschedule the show, this is their statement "We are canceling our May 7 show at the Murat in Indianapolis. The “Indiana Religious Freedom Restoration Act” feels like thinly disguised legal discrimination to us. Hope to get back to the Hoosier State someday soon, when this odious measure is repealed. Refunds available at point of purchase."  R E P E A L is the key word here and that will not be happening.  We are stuck with it and most of us are stuck here due to family, work and other COMMITMENTS!

[Mr. Heartbreak]

I live in Tampa and am driving to Tallahassee and St. Augustine shows to see Wilco. Each of those trips is about 3 to 4 hours, one way. Soooo, not really feeling the sympathy for folks who can still pick a Cincy, Louisville or St. Louis show instead of Indy. First world problems indeed.

 

Not that people don't have a right to complain. Complain day and night if you want, but coming to the Wilco fan board to do it is probably not the wisest move (as Doug C so eloquently pointed out), and is likely to draw a certain amount of push back, if not outright ridicule.

[Hixter]

Complain day and night if you want, but coming to the Wilco fan board to do it is probably not the wisest move (as Doug C so eloquently pointed out), and is likely to draw a certain amount of push back, if not outright ridicule.

Except for one or two obvious trolls, the people who are complaining appear to be genuine Wilco fans, so where else would they discuss the band, other than a Wilco fan board?

 

Push back -- in the form of polite disagreement -- is perfectly fine, but there's absolutely no place for ridicule amongst grown men and women. The whole idea that "it's the Internet" allows such behavior is ridiculous.

[remphish1]

On a another side line. One I agree with the people who were planning on attending the shows if they are cancelling the show they should have done this by now so the people who want it can get their refunds (or the people who want to make alternate arrangements to see another show, etc). Seems from many avenues it is not officially cancelled.

[marino13]

I live in Tampa and am driving to Tallahassee and St. Augustine shows to see Wilco. Each of those trips is about 3 to 4 hours, one way. Soooo, not really feeling the sympathy for folks who can still pick a Cincy, Louisville or St. Louis show instead of Indy. First world problems indeed.

 

 

Soooo, not really feeling sympathy for folks who can still pick from many other restaurants to cater their wedding instead of Joe Homophobe's Pizza Place.  First world problems indeed.  

 

I don't really feel that way, just pointing out that different things mean a lot to different people.  I feel some level of sympathy for all involved, but to someone who is going to die in the next five minutes because they have had no food or water for days, or to a parent who helplessly watches their child die of a cancer for which there is no cure, they would gladly change places with a person on either side of this argument.  

[Mizzy]

Anyone who really doesn't like what Wilco is doing should start a boycott of their own. They should stop buying tickets to shows and they should boycott this website for a while or forever.

 

 Because really, what are you here for? To convince the vast majority of Wilco fans that the band shouldn't be standing up for what they believe in? And even then, assuming that everyone suddenly said "you know what, you're right, Wilco should just shut up and play the hits" you'd still have to convince Jeff, Nels, Glen, Pat, Mike, and John. And i don't think this is the place for that.

[Beltmann]

I feel for the jilted ticket-holders--and there's something callous about telling them to just suck it up; it's pretty easy to view it that way when it's not happening to you--but I'm unconvinced that some of the alternatives proposed in this thread, such as donating proceeds or speechifying from the stage, would have made any news or impact at all.

 

It's unfortunate that innocent fans are caught in the crossfire, but at the same time, that's why the decision matters: Wilco was willing to face negative blowback in order to take a stand. One cancelled rock concert is not going to break this legislation or change many minds, but when many small decisions by many individuals fit together into a larger pattern, that does send a powerful message. In other words, Wilco has done their part. Such movements have to start somewhere, and Wilco decided to be in the vanguard, despite the risks.

 

Wilco's decision ranked among the top trending topics on Facebook, which again points to why it matters: It helped expose bigotry and helped jumpstart necessary conversations. When many small decisions like this become an avalanche, they combine to show Indiana and other states, like Michigan, why such laws are bad ideas for their economies.  Would some donations by a semi-obscure rock band ever trend on Facebook?  Their decision might be theater to some degree, but in the age of social media and the 24-hours news cycle, it's effective theater, and in a very real sense, more substantial than the proposed alternatives.

 

 Gays have more rights in Indiana than here in Texas, but the Lone Star State shows will go on. 

 

You've made this argument several times in this thread, and while on some macro level you have a point, I think it misses the point.  Texas banned same-sex marriage in 1997, not in March 2015.  The national conversation right now isn't about old laws that can be somewhat embarrassingly explained by "it was another time" excuses.  Instead, the national conversation is about new laws that seem out-of-step with current social mores, and it is that current conversation that Wilco decided to join.  We all make such selective choices, because otherwise we would be forced to live in perpetual paralysis.  We all make decisions about what to emphasize and put energies into, based on what seems most relevant right now.  That's not hypocrisy so much as focused pragmatism.

 

On a side note, I always appreciate your civil approach in these threads, Hixter.

[ditty]

Very interesting

 

Same-Sex Marriage Is a Religious Institution Deserving Lawful Protection

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/g-roger-denson/same-sex-marriage-christian-history_b_6990864.html

[twoshedsjackson]

I don't really consider myself to be a Republican. I'm registered with the party so that I can take part in primaries, but I vote based on the candidates, not their parties. I was intrigued by Obama's soaring speeches in the 2008 election and I was happy to see an African American in the White House, but his campaign seemed to be based on "I'm not George W. Bush" and a bunch of wispy dreams that didn't seem obtainable in the harsh light of reality, so I didn't wind up voting for him.

 

I don't feel like an outsider here. I think diversity is a great thing, and that includes diversity in political opinions. I can discuss touchy subjects with people who hold opposing viewpoints for hours as long as the conversation remains civil. It's only when someone forgets their manners or hints that I'm a racist or homophobe that I get annoyed. I'll still continue conversing politely, but if the ugliness continues I'll stop speaking, rather than stoop to ugliness myself.

 

Labels are worthless. Red states and blue states don't exist. The stereotypical Republican (or Democrat) doesn't exist. Do I sound like a stereotypical Republican?

 

I was raised in a middle class family.

 

I knocked my girlfriend up, so I married her and joined the Army to provide for my family.

 

We were divorced and I received custody of the kids at ages 1 and 2. My ex never paid a dime in support, or even saw the kids very much.

 

I put myself through college as a single parent and even received food stamps for a short time.

 

I don't go to church.

 

I believe in evolution.

 

I can't fathom how someone can have an abortion, but I don't think it should be illegal.

 

My brother is gay and I love him dearly. Same-sex marriage doesn't bother me.

 

I'm against the death penalty, for the most part.

 

I'm unemployed.

 

I have a lot of very liberal friends and several years ago one of them told me that I'd changed her mind about Republicans. She said that she thought she had only Democrat friends, but realized that the ones who didn't talk politics with her were probably Republicans who were afraid to mention it and she thought that was terrible. There needs to be more of that in this country, because the extremists on both sides of the aisle are outnumbered by the moderates. The extremists just like to yell more loudly.

I'm truly glad to know those things about you, Hixter. If I'd known some of them before. I would definitely have taken a different tone with you in our discussions. I tend to get worked up about civil rights issues, and if I wrongly insulted you I apologize. I still disagree with a lot of the things you say (hell, after your above post I find some of them even more confounding), but it's nice to have more perspective on who I'm talking to/arguing with.

[Beltmann]

This reminds of February 2008 when 5 days before the date, Wilco postponed the Charleston, SC show to be on SNL. As I had tickets, I was not happy. I, similar to some Indy area fans, was like a dog with a bone. I wouldn't let it go and ran my logic into the ground, foolishly believing that the posters disagreeing with me would eventually see the light. I sounded like a major douche. I reread that shit a couple days ago and cringed. How I wish that I had made my point, once, maybe twice, and then let it the fuck go. Even though I was 44/45, I was fairly new to the internet, and lost sight of all reason. Any of you that remember, I apologize and I ask your forgiveness, unless you found me to be entertaining. All I can say in my defense is that, hey, it was 5 days notice, not 5 weeks, and it was to be on SNL, not to take a principled stance on a human rights issue.

 

Those of you still ranting, let it go. Trust me. You don't want to regret it even more than you already will.

Oh, I remember that thread!  (If I remember correctly, I had plenty to say, but I'm a little leery to go back and re-read.)  Even better were the endless forum debates about whether Wilco had "sold out" by giving a bunch of songs to the VW ad campaign.  Things always seem red-hot in the moment, but given a little time and perspective, seem less egregious.

[twoshedsjackson]

Especially for a band that hasn't put out a great album in over a decade.

And yet here you are.

[IRememberDBoon]

Its funny. This sounds like EXACTLY what the folks on the right say they want.

Letting the free market decide. And so it is. And so they are still crying. Whats new. If I had a penny for every time the right cried wolf in the last 6 years Id give it all to GLAAD.

[lost highway]

Yeah, once again I have to say: thanks Hixter. It's a pleasure disagreeing with you. Seriously. You're a good dude, which makes it nicer to argue with you when our biases conflict.

 

Also, there is a growing number of ultra-religious organizations creating a fictitious sense of persecution to fuel their attempts at governing our society based on their backwards biblical interpretations.

 

Also, racism and poverty are so culturally and systematically woven into how our country operates that we're morally obligated to implement progressive action at a governmental level.

 

Also, taken as a whole The Whole Love is better than Sky Blue Sky.

 

I feel like Wilco has my back here, but discuss amongst yourselves. You're a good man Hixter.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Soooo, not really feeling sympathy for folks who can still pick from many other restaurants to cater their wedding instead of Joe Homophobe's Pizza Place.  First world problems indeed.  

 

I get that this is a rework of my original comment, but I fail to see the purpose of changing "pick a Cincy, Louisville or St. Louis show instead of Indy" to "pick from many other restaurants to cater their pizza instead of Joe Homophobe's Pizza Place." Are you comparing (or contrasting) aggrieved Wilco fans to marginalized groups like LGBT?

 

I apologize if I seem callous in being among the chorus of people who are more or less saying "suck it up." I really try to put myself in those people's shoes...unfortunately for them, I still come to the same conclusion, which is that if I were an Indy Wilco fan, this situation would make me more pissed at the legislators and Pence...not at Wilco.

[bleedorange]

And yet here you are.

 

Yep. I love Wilco.

[twoshedsjackson]

Yep. I love Wilco.

Fair enough.

[tinnitus photography]

We should get a ticket price refund, but I would highly doubt that will include the $13.50 per ticket, Live Nation fee.  For those of us here, that buy tickets regularly, there is a certain amount of stress that goes with buying tickets, just look at the pre-sale days and threads discussing those.

i'd be surprised if a canceled show doesn't refund the LN fee. very surprised. 

 

if you want to trade pre-ticket buying stress (for how many days of the year, two or three?) for the stress i regularly go through during the process of concert photography, i'm game for a Freaky Friday swap for a week. i'll even let you keep all that lucrative windfall.

[marino13]

I get that this is a rework of my original comment, but I fail to see the purpose of changing "pick a Cincy, Louisville or St. Louis show instead of Indy" to "pick from many other restaurants to cater their pizza instead of Joe Homophobe's Pizza Place." Are you comparing (or contrasting) aggrieved Wilco fans to marginalized groups like LGBT?

 

I apologize if I seem callous in being among the chorus of people who are more or less saying "suck it up." I really try to put myself in those people's shoes...unfortunately for them, I still come to the same conclusion, which is that if I were an Indy Wilco fan, this situation would make me more pissed at the legislators and Pence...not at Wilco.

I'm just trying to get people to take a step back and see it from a different perspective.  To the fans that lost out on the concert (even though they can attend another show), it's a big deal.  To the gay couple that has a restaurant refuse to cater their wedding (even though they can go to another restaurant), it's a big deal.  To a person who is dying because they haven't eaten for days or a child currently being held captive and abused, they both seem like "first world problems indeed".  Matter of fact, most of the issues we argue about in this country would seem like first world problems to them.  

 

I have sympathy in this case for both the fans and the gay couple.  I have sympathy for neglected pets.  I have sympathy for a family that loses their house in a tornado and the insurance company is trying to screw them.  I have sympathy for someone that just lost their job due to cutbacks.  I have sympathy for someone who has followed a band faithfully for 10 years and doesn't like the artistic direction the band took on their last album.  I have sympathy for children with cancer.  I have sympathy for children who are abused.  I have sympathy for someone who ate a burrito an hour before bedtime and is now having acid reflux and can't sleep.  

 

I don't have equal amounts of sympathy for each of those things, and If I ranked them in order of most to least, chances are my list would not look the same as yours.  Sorry if you felt I was picking on you specifically, that was not my intent.  Just trying to bring about more understanding and less entrenched arguing.  

[lost highway]