Thoughts on the Democratic National Convention

[kidsmoke]

Sorry folks, I meant to post this earlier and forgot. It's been an interesting Day One!

 

As I said in the thread last week regarding the RNC, please do your damnedest to keep the conversation civil, since there are bound to be differing opinions and there aren't many opinions more fiercely held than political opinions! Keep it respectful, and thanks.

 

 

So how about that Sanders speech?! The speech of his lifetime, I think. Powerful and passionate and (as hard as it must have been) unifying!

 

Made me proud to be a Sanders supporter.

[ih8music]

Sanders was good, but Michele Obama delivered the speech of the night.  One for the ages...

[kidsmoke]

Agreed! A lot of people admire her speeches.

[John Smith]

The Dem convention is weird, no Benghazi! No traitorous Hillary? Where are the guns? No wonder people don't take them seriously. :-)

[brownie]

I loved Bernie's speech and it reminded me of all the reasons I voted for him.

 

I just wish I could believe everything he said that "Hillary Clinton understands." I was willing to believe him until he got to TPP. And I remembered that Bill Clinton was the one who signed NAFTA.

 

I felt for all those Bernie supporters who were crying in the stands during his speech.

[lost highway]

I just wish I could believe everything he said that "Hillary Clinton understands." I was willing to believe him until he got to TPP. And I remembered that Bill Clinton was the one who signed NAFTA.

 

I've read more than one article recently that suggested NAFTA was neither the disaster its critics claimed it to be, nor the smashing success its proponents have claimed. I'm no economist, but I found that perspective interesting.

[KevinG]

And I remembered that Bill Clinton was the one who signed NAFTA.

I guess it is a good thing Bill Clinton is not running for president.

[Magnetized]

My favorite short speech of the night was Sarah Silverman's with Al Franken. It was real and heartfelt and ended with what seemed to be an impromptu exhortation to the Bernie or Bust people: "You're being ridiculous!"

[brownie]

I guess it is a good thing Bill Clinton is not running for president.

You don't think it would be odd for Hillary to take a position 180 degrees from what is one of the most significant accomplishments of her husband's time in office?

[calvino]

My favorite short speech of the night was Sarah Silverman's with Al Franken. It was real and heartfelt and ended with what seemed to be an impromptu exhortation to the Bernie or Bust people: "You're being ridiculous!"

 

Yeah, I was watching it during her speech and you can tell she was getting a little peeved - I was waiting for her to say something.

 

I can see why Warren was not picked as a VP mate -- I am in step with her are far as policy goes - but she's no Kaine on the stump; of course all the dumb heckling probably didn't help her. A missed opportunity for her.

 

Sanders and Michelle Obama were definitely the highlights.

 

Hopefully the Sanders' crowd got it all out their system yesterday -- I am sure some of it will roll over to today's delegate roll call - as it should - but than after that, hopefully it's smooth sailing.

[John Smith]

Re the Sanders crowd...part of the theater of the convention is that they get their say, they vent, they scream and yell and by day 4 they will generally be converted. Same thing happened last week. Not everyone will go along but you will see a generally United party emerge.

[uncool2pillow]

As a new, and somewhat reluctant, Democrat, I really enjoyed most of the convention last night. I really respect Bernie Sanders' devotion to his principles. Good lord, though, he gave an expensive speech last night!

[NoJ]

Welcome to the team UC2P!

[uncool2pillow]

[KevinG]

You don't think it would be odd for Hillary to take a position 180 degrees from what is one of the most significant accomplishments of her husband's time in office?

 

No I do not.  It has been what 23 years since NAFTA was signed?  Looking back at it is probably one of the worst thing about Clinton's presidency.  I think she knows it, I think Bill knows it as well.  It is silly to pin something that her husband did two decades ago on her.  

 

Here is a breakdown from NPR on he evolution on trade.  In which she comes out in many statements as critical of NAFTA.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/21/401123124/a-timeline-of-hillary-clintons-evolution-on-trade

[Winston Legthigh]

Somewhat reluctant Democrat. I like it. 

 

I know you're an Iowan, but maybe you could  join the Minnesota Dem party: the Democratic Farm and Labor party or the North Dakota Democratic-Nonpartisan League Party.

[ditty]

Good to hear Bernie mention this election is not about and has never been about the candidates, political gossip, campaign strategy, fund raising and all the things the media spend so much time discussing.

 

The arena was packed, vs. the every other rows filled at the RNC.  Also, no cheerleaders in yellow hates running up and down the floor to excite the electorate like the RNC.  The place was full of "true" excitement and represented the true demographics of America in 2016.

[brownie]

No I do not.  It has been what 23 years since NAFTA was signed?  Looking back at it is probably one of the worst thing about Clinton's presidency.  I think she knows it, I think Bill knows it as well.  It is silly to pin something that her husband did two decades ago on her.  

 

Here is a breakdown from NPR on he evolution on trade.  In which she comes out in many statements as critical of NAFTA.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/04/21/401123124/a-timeline-of-hillary-clintons-evolution-on-trade

Thanks for that link. Reading through, it tells me that she waffles back and forth about the issue. I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, and I will almost certainly end up voting for her. But I won't be voting for her because I have strong belief in her. It will be a half-hearted vote. I think my ability to have strong belief in any candidate was destroyed by Obama's failure to live up to just about everything I thought he was going to be and do when I voted for him. Bernie Sanders is probably the last remaining person I believe in, partly because I have been following him for many years and and am thoroughly convinced that he represents my interests.

[lost highway]

I'm convinced that in an alternate universe, a Sanders presidency would leave his supporters as disillusioned as many Obama supporters felt. I think this is the nature of being president of this country. I also think similar to Obama, Sanders would make changes in the places he could.

 

There has been an ongoing philosophical cliche about the 'lesser of evils' as an unacceptable motive to vote. The more I think about this, the more limited I find the perspective. Every president of the U.S. (at least in the last century, I'm not sharp enough on some of the earlier ones to say) has been directly, or tangentially responsible for evil: FDR, Eisenhower, Clinton, Reagan, Obama (all popular presidents). The project of dialogue, rumination and voting is by definition an effort towards a lesser evil. Sometimes there are better options than others.

 

If you consider the run of Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan it was arguably two decades of poor leadership. A less partisan history lens will remember the Obama years fondly. As for whether the Sanders movement makes a mark, I believe it comes down to whether or not his supporters are capable of being activists beyond a presidential popularity contest. There is so much energy and emotion, but I'm afraid it will dissipate after our twice-a-decade spectacle. I pin none of this on Sanders himself, I think he's beyond reproach.

[KevinG]

Thanks for that link. Reading through, it tells me that she waffles back and forth about the issue. I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, and I will almost certainly end up voting for her. But I won't be voting for her because I have strong belief in her. It will be a half-hearted vote. I think my ability to have strong belief in any candidate was destroyed by Obama's failure to live up to just about everything I thought he was going to be and do when I voted for him. Bernie Sanders is probably the last remaining person I believe in, partly because I have been following him for many years and and am thoroughly convinced that he represents my interests.

 

I would bet, if Bernie was elected after 4 or 8 years you would be disappointed in him too.  There is what is said to get elected and there is the actuality of the job.  I think working with the most obstructionist congress ever has a lot to do with Obama's failures.

 

We have to remember the President is not a king.  Just because a candidate might say they want free college or to ban all Muslims doesn't mean in January 2017 it is going to happen.  

 

 

As for whether the Sanders movement makes a mark, I believe it comes down to whether or not his supporters are capable of being activists beyond a presidential popularity contest. There is so much energy and emotion, but I'm afraid it will dissipate after our twice-a-decade spectacle. I pin none of this on Sanders himself, I think he's beyond reproach.

 

This really is the key for the Sander's supporters.  The millennials out there need to remain progressive, the need to remain active.  They need to be engaged in the political process.  A fit and a tantrum every four years is not enough.  Look what happened 2010.  The youth that supported Obama did not vote and now we the far right controlling both houses of congress.  Say what you will about the TEA party, but the one thing they were able to do and do extremely well is run candidates and get them elected, because they vote in primaries.  If you want a progressive movement in this country, don't start from the top, start from the bottom.  The TEA party has proven it can be done.   

[Winston Legthigh]

 

If you consider the run of Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan it was arguably two decades of poor leadership. 

 

I've never heard Reagan's run described as "poor leadership," or lumped in with the mediocre POTUSes from the 70s. Reagan's presidency is generally viewed favorably by historians:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_Presidents_of_the_United_States

 

Early reviews put him no lower than the 3rd quartile, but his reviews have gotten more positive in time, with some putting him in the 1st quartile

[Boss_Tweedy]

I enjoyed Bernie's speech last night. Granted, I'm somewhat biased, as I voted for him in the primary and wish he'd received the nomination. For me if Bernie and Hillary gave that same speech from last night, I'd take Bernie's every time. Because when Bernie says it I believe him.

[ditty]

I'm convinced that in an alternate universe, a Sanders presidency would leave his supporters as disillusioned as many Obama supporters felt. I think this is the nature of being president of this country. I also think similar to Obama, Sanders would make changes in the places he could.

 

I would bet, if Bernie was elected after 4 or 8 years you would be disappointed in him too.  There is what is said to get elected and there is the actuality of the job.  I think working with the most obstructionist congress ever has a lot to do with Obama's failures.  

 

This is why we believe the time is now for a political revolution.  It starts with term limits, the elimination of Citizens United and lobbyists.  

[jff]

Anyone know who the house band is for this event?   The RNC had G.E. Smith as the house band leader, but I haven't heard anything about who the DNC is using. They had some pretty hot jams last night.

[KevinG]

This is why we believe the time is now for a political revolution.  It starts with term limits, the elimination of Citizens United and lobbyists.  

 

I have issues in general with term limits, but that is a conversation for another time.  But Citizens United has to go.  That will only happen if Clinton is elected.

 

But with the political revolution, it has started.  Bernie has started it.  It did not go their way.  It was not stolen, it was not taken by devious means.  Simply under the the rules of the DNC he lost.  

 

Now it is up to his supporters to continue what Sanders started.  They need to put down their Pokemon Go and fight for what they believe in.  It is hard, the deck is stacked against outsiders, but it can happen.  They need to pick the right fight, a war with Hillary and the DNC is only going to set back their cause.  The political revolution does not end with a loss of the presidency.  The political revolution now needs to start at the local, state and congressional level.  The TEA party was committed to doing this.  The Progressive wing of the Democratic Party should do the same.

 

Right now, until I see some actual political activism and fight from the left, the political revolution stuff is just empty talk.  Oh in 2020 people will bitch about the two party system, how it is rigged, etc, etc.  Every person in 2008 knew Clinton was going to be the nominee in 2016.  What did the progressives do to put forth a viable candidate in that time?  The Bernie or Bust group are like a college student who decided to crack open their text book a day before the final and are pissed because they failed.