"Ode To Joy" Reactions

[jbray]

Judging by the revisionist history regarding SBS, that means folks should start coming around to SW in about 2028 and OTJ in 2031 or so...

 

I wouldn't be so sure. Back then, Wilco was still attracting new listeners with SBS (like myself) and I am not so sure that is true with each release. It is at least less new listeners. 

 

I'd be more surprised by a WtA reappraisal than a SW or OTJ one. 

[jff]

As someone who was a Nels fan before Wilco even existed, I thought SBS was a fantastic album right from the start.  Nels is well represented on that one starting with the first track.

 

On an unrelated note, does anyone know where I can buy the latest Uncut magazine online without ordering it from the UK?

[lost highway]

I guess it's good that I didn't know there was FB group.

 

Now that I've had a chance to listen several times through, I'd say this album puts them on an upswing after Schmilco, but is nowhere near as good as SBS or Star Wars, so I don't understand the "Best album since AGIB" thing that's been pretty common in a lot of reviews and commentary.

 

Am I the only one who thinks SBS is half of an amazing album? While there's no "You Are My Face" moment that makes me look for someone to make a mix tape for so I can put it on there, OTJ is so much more consistent than a lot of their output to my ears. In fact, that makes it a better introverted cousin to Star Wars. It holds a certain focus, and there's no slipping up on the back half.

[bböp]

OOOH CONTROVERSIAL! Are you saying the average Wilco fan is 'slow'...?

 

Personally I still don't get the second disc of BT.

Try it after one of your snob beers...;-)

[jff]

Am I the only one who thinks SBS is half of an amazing album? While there's no "You Are My Face" moment that makes me look for someone to make a mix tape for so I can put it on there, OTJ is so much more consistent than a lot of their output to my ears. In fact, that makes it a better introverted cousin to Star Wars. It holds a certain focus, and there's no slipping up on the back half.

 

In my case, inconsistency is probably a large part of what makes an album enjoyable to listen to.  I like an album to show different sides of what a band can do (and sometimes what they can't do), and that creates inconsistency.  SBS, AGIB, and TWL (not one of my favorites, but still) and some of the others did that really well.  This album is pretty consistent in tone and tempo, and on the tracks where it isn't, it feels to me like they're rehashing things they've done before (the one uptempo song, Everyone Hides, is to my ears pretty interchangeable with Dawned on Me, for example).  Which isn't necessarily bad, but isn't something I end up listening to very often, or ever, after the album/tour cycle ends.

 

My favorite Zeppelin album is Houses of the Holy, favorite Bowie is Hunky Dory, favorite Allmans is Idlewild South, etc., and it's because they're trying to do lots of different stuff on those records.  I like a meal to have a variety of flavors.  I don't want my dessert to be similar at all to my appetizer.

[Thats Me Beefing]

I've def listened to the first half way more than the second at this point, due to starting the album over on car rides and whatnot. So the second half I haven't digested as much as the first. But man I love, love love Bright Leaves and Before Us. They sound like they are kicking off what could potentially be one of my favorite albums next to AGIB and SBS, but at the moment I'm not sure because I need to digest the rest a bit more. I didn't really vibe Quiet Amplifier at first but every time I hear it now I hear new things, and I'm starting to like it a lot. Everyone Hides it's just another killer Wilco pop song like Dawned on Me or Someone to Lose, I dig it a lot. The rest of the tunes still need more listens to have any opinion on them. This is definitely one of the more cohesive albums they've done in a long time. The overall mood feels the same all the way through, rather than a collection of different atmospheres it feels like one consistent atmosphere, and it's an unsettling one at times much like YHF and AGIB and I love that. I really hope more of the latter half of the songs start to grab me like the first half has.

 

Oh and I have to give a shoutout to the lyrics on the first two tracks. This is such a great example of writing something so simple, that feels so powerful, which is hard to land without being kind of cheesy at times. Somehow we're bright leaves you and I, underneath the old snow, being set free by the winter rain, and I know it'll never change. That is so simple, and so beautiful. It reminds me of Roger Waters describing "Breathe, breathe in the air" and how it's the kind of line you may just toss in the trash because it's so plain and simplistic. But when you have the right music, and it evokes the right feeling, it becomes something great. I can't wait to see these tunes live in Nashville...in a week and a half! Psyched. 

[sinko25]

This album release has sure brought out the worst in Wilco fans. Love or hate OtJ, a few minutes in that FaceBook group is more unpleasant than any music Jeff has put out in his entire career. It's really sucking the fun out of this album cycle. 

The Facebook group, like most fan groups of a certain size, is absolute trash. I'm glad this band still has an active message board like this one where at least a modicum of thought is involved before hitting "post." 

[5hake1t0ff]

Am I the only one who thinks SBS is half of an amazing album? While there's no "You Are My Face" moment that makes me look for someone to make a mix tape for so I can put it on there, OTJ is so much more consistent than a lot of their output to my ears. In fact, that makes it a better introverted cousin to Star Wars. It holds a certain focus, and there's no slipping up on the back half.

 

Yeah, I've always felt that way. SBS often loses me halfway through "Leave Me Like You Found Me"...no pun intended. Walken is one I skip through more often than not. What Light is just okay, and On and On and On is just waiting for its more interesting rebirth as "I'll Fight." OTJ is their most cohesive since AGIB, though I will say the cohesiveness is also what I like best about Star Wars and Schmilco.

[jbray]

Yeah, I've always felt that way. SBS often loses me halfway through "Leave Me Like You Found Me"...no pun intended. Walken is one I skip through more often than not. What Light is just okay, and On and On and On is just waiting for its more interesting rebirth as "I'll Fight." OTJ is their most cohesive since AGIB, though I will say the cohesiveness is also what I like best about Star Wars and Schmilco.

Different fans, different takes: "I'll Fight" is one of the most forgettable songs in the catalog and "On & On & On" is one of the best. Would never call them a sequence other than being about death. For one, "I'll Fight" contains nothing like the "we're going to try..." crescendo. I'm in a minority on this one because it seems to get requested and played at live shows, but I sure never want to hear it. 

 

I think the back half of SBS is definitely weaker than the front side but it's not dramatic. "Leave You Like You Found Me" is the culprit because it all but kills the engine. All of the other songs on the back half hold their own and work for the record. 

[lost highway]

In my case, inconsistency is probably a large part of what makes an album enjoyable to listen to.  I like an album to show different sides of what a band can do (and sometimes what they can't do), and that creates inconsistency.  SBS, AGIB, and TWL (not one of my favorites, but still) and some of the others did that really well.  

 

Well said, that totally helps me get what you're going for. I think in terms of 'variety pack' Wilco records (sorry everyone) I'll take TWL over SBS, and WtA any day. It was a peak to me because they managed to have as much range as those other albums without (in my opinion) any clunker songs. If I'm gonna get a chuckle to yourself, fun song I'll take Capitol City over Walken, or for that matter a spirited romp I'll take Standing O over Walken. I won't tell you why I hate On and On because you love it and the Facebook group has inspired me to be less of a jerk when discussing music.

[jff]

Well said, that totally helps me get what you're going for. I think in terms of 'variety pack' Wilco records (sorry everyone) I'll take TWL over SBS, and WtA any day. It was a peak to me because they managed to have as much range as those other albums without (in my opinion) any clunker songs. If I'm gonna get a chuckle to yourself, fun song I'll take Capitol City over Walken, or for that matter a spirited romp I'll take Standing O over Walken. I won't tell you why I hate On and On because you love it and the Facebook group has inspired me to be less of a jerk when discussing music.

 

For the life of me I can't remember how On and On goes   .

 

There's definitely some duds on SBS, but it's high points are really high.    

 

I need to listen to TWL again.  That's definitely the one I've listened to the least, and I skipped seeing them on that tour.  I think I had gown so pissed at the chatty Atlanta Wilco concert audiences by then that I retired from Wilco for that cycle.

[5hake1t0ff]

Different fans, different takes: "I'll Fight" is one of the most forgettable songs in the catalog and "On & On & On" is one of the best. Would never call them a sequence other than being about death. For one, "I'll Fight" contains nothing like the "we're going to try..." crescendo. I'm in a minority on this one because it seems to get requested and played at live shows, but I sure never want to hear it. 

 

I think the back half of SBS is definitely weaker than the front side but it's not dramatic. "Leave You Like You Found Me" is the culprit because it all but kills the engine. All of the other songs on the back half hold their own and work for the record. 

 

On & On & On isn't as bad as I made it sound.  And I'll Fight isn't as good as I made it sound.  The civil war soldier writing home aspect of "I'll Fight" is pretty interesting, and I like the groove of it slightly more than the chamber-poppiness of On & On, but that's not my main issue.  It's the shared melody of the two songs that just hurts me every time I hear it, in either song. I would probably like On & On & On much, much more if "I'll Fight" never came along.  But we're well off-topic at this point...

[Magnetized]

I am the beleaguered moderator in the Facebook group and to tell you the truth I am just about over it. The group has gotten way too big, I think it’s been invaded by trolls and there’s so much shitposting and backstabbing that it’s not fun anymore. I know that some of you here on this message board are also members of the Facebook group and I would sincerely appreciate any suggestions you might have as to some way to get that place back on track. I’ve always thought that this board and the Facebook group could compatibly coexist because they each have different strengths. (I also know that some people just hate Facebook on general principles and I’m beginning to understand that point of view!) My real name is Diane Kyrus and you can send me a PM.

 

Oh, and in the interest of keeping this post on topic, I am a huge fan of OTJ.

[saluqi]

I am the beleaguered moderator in the Facebook group and to tell you the truth I am just about over it. The group has gotten way too big, I think it’s been invaded by trolls and there’s so much shitposting and backstabbing that it’s not fun anymore. I know that some of you here on this message board are also members of the Facebook group and I would sincerely appreciate any suggestions you might have as to some way to get that place back on track. I’ve always thought that this board and the Facebook group could compatibly coexist because they each have different strengths. (I also know that some people just hate Facebook on general principles and I’m beginning to understand that point of view!) My real name is Diane Kyrus and you can send me a PM.

 

Oh, and in the interest of keeping this post on topic, I am a huge fan of OTJ.

 

Hi Dianne,

 

Thanks for doing an impossible job, you're an unlikely hero, sorry couldn't resist.  Anyway, I'm in the Shot In the Arm group but I "unfollowed" it in the month or so before the last Solid Sound, just way too many people posting, and while I love Wilco I don't care about every fans revelations regarding the band and their music.  Maybe just turn off the ability of people to post to the group for a while, people will fade away and forget about it, and in a few months quietly turn the posting permissions back on.  If it were me I'd be tempted to nuke the whole thing.  Thanks.  

 

Paul

[lost highway]

I am the beleaguered moderator in the Facebook group and to tell you the truth I am just about over it. The group has gotten way too big, I think it’s been invaded by trolls and there’s so much shitposting and backstabbing that it’s not fun anymore. I know that some of you here on this message board are also members of the Facebook group and I would sincerely appreciate any suggestions you might have as to some way to get that place back on track. I’ve always thought that this board and the Facebook group could compatibly coexist because they each have different strengths. (I also know that some people just hate Facebook on general principles and I’m beginning to understand that point of view!) My real name is Diane Kyrus and you can send me a PM.

 

Oh, and in the interest of keeping this post on topic, I am a huge fan of OTJ.

 

Yeah, I was thinking of the poor moderators. I don't really know what to tell you, Diane. I think I've already admitted that it's gotten toxic enough that I've felt sucked into communicating with strangers in a way that's not totally friendly. I'd think a few weeks will cool it out, but it's not your job to weather that storm if you don't want to.

[SarahC]

One thing I think would help the FB page is to limit the amount of shit posting that can happen. I don’t know what all control a mod has in a FB group, but I think maybe some strict policy about “dont be a dick” should definitely be enforced...

 

Or we shut it down and start again?  

[TCP]

I am the beleaguered moderator in the Facebook group and to tell you the truth I am just about over it. The group has gotten way too big, I think it’s been invaded by trolls and there’s so much shitposting and backstabbing that it’s not fun anymore. I know that some of you here on this message board are also members of the Facebook group and I would sincerely appreciate any suggestions you might have as to some way to get that place back on track. I’ve always thought that this board and the Facebook group could compatibly coexist because they each have different strengths. (I also know that some people just hate Facebook on general principles and I’m beginning to understand that point of view!) My real name is Diane Kyrus and you can send me a PM.

 

Oh, and in the interest of keeping this post on topic, I am a huge fan of OTJ.

 

Hey Diane! Sorry if my post came across as critical of you or John. You guys are doing your best in a very tough situation. If you need anyone to come in and be a total jerk and just ban people (I am in favour of life time bans from anyone asking "what's your least favourite WIlco song?") I am your man. But that might just be putting gasoline on the situation!! 

Keep your head up. Even in the heyday of VC, people were quite rude. Having a Facebook is still appreciated by lots of us! 

Honestly I wish we could have a Facebook group of 500 people MAX, the people who are/were regular VC posters, or go to lots of shows. Call it Wilco Snobs. 

[SarahC]

Hey Diane! Sorry if my post came across as critical of you or John. You guys are doing your best in a very tough situation. If you need anyone to come in and be a total jerk and just ban people (I am in favour of life time bans from anyone asking "what's your least favourite WIlco song?") I am your man. But that might just be putting gasoline on the situation!!

Honestly I wish we could have a Facebook group of 500 people MAX, the people who are/were regular VC posters, or go to lots of shows. Call it Wilco Snobs.

I like that idea.

We could call it the “highy messed up freaks!!11!”

does anybody remember that?

[Beltmann]

I like that idea.

We could call it the “highy messed up freaks!!11!”

does anybody remember that?

[Magnetized]

Honestly I wish we could have a Facebook group of 500 people MAX, the people who are/were regular VC posters, or go to lots of shows. Call it Wilco Snobs.

 

I like this! And the Highy Messed Up Freaks, but that actually predates me so I’m not worthy! But for real, it could be time to set up a splinter group. It’s worth considering.

 

For a short time we tried having a minimum barrier to admission (just what’s your favorite album and why) but because of different browsers and privacy settings it seemed like about half of the requests weren’t coming through. Facebook doesn’t make it easy to figure out.

 

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. It wasn’t my intention to hijack this thread to whine about Facebook moderation but I appreciate your thoughts and maybe there’s something we can do. Feel free to PM me or send a friend request if you’ve got any other ideas. Taking a cue from One Sunday Morning, “Oh, I’ll give it time.” For now, at least.

[TCP]

I'm not sure if I was even being completely serious, but maybe it is an idea worth considering?? I just wouldn't want anyone to feel excluded. Also not sure how the mod team here feels about us discussing other Wilco discussion groups. 

 

EDIT: New page, so I should probably get things back on track with some OTJ stuff. Here's a cool interview from John on the recording process. 

[lost highway]

I like that interview, and I like John. It seems like some of the negative discussion assumes that Jeff was twisting everyone's arms and they didn't get an input. The way it sounds is even though there was a pretty specific template to dictate a different process, the other 4 guys got to really be imaginative in seeing what they could add.

[Mr. Heartbreak]

Jeff isn't really singing.  There aren't any strong melodies or bridges beyond these barely-there basic ones and certainly no catchy hooks or pop songcraft.  Guitars and keyboards?  I'm not hearing anything but wispy little flourishes way in the background.  Drums are plodding and mixed far too loud, sounds like Glenn is banging on cardboard boxes instead of a drum set and it does not serve the songs well, IMO.

 

I got somewhat hopeful about this album after reading some fan comments and reviews and I really was excited to put it on and wanting to like it, but to me its just more of the same boring stuff from the last few albums.

 

This album, unfortunately for me, confirms my opinion that new Wilco music since The Whole Love just takes up space in the live show setlist that would be better served, in my opinion, by more rare songs from A Ghost Is Born, Sky Blue Sky, and Wilco the Album.  I think Wilco do not need a bunch more new mediocre or worse songs to play live, they need more setlist diversity from the best songs from their past catalog, a huge number of which rarely get played. I get they are artists and want to always be creating and progressing but the results of that work is, for me, getting increasingly boring.

 

I like Wilco as a live band, I don't really listen to their studio albums anyways, so its not too much of a bummer for me if the records aren't good.  But it is a bummer for me if the live show gets increasingly filled up with mediocre songs at the expense of far better older songs.  I used to be a die hard Richard Thompson fan in the 90s but I don't go see him anymore for this very reason.  I sure hope this doesn't happen with Wilco, but it seems to be trending that way for my tastes and its kind of a bummer.

 

Having finally listened to it, this post sums up my feelings nicely. Florida got bypassed on the Star Wars/Schmilco jaunt (no shows since May 2015), so I haven't seen any of the more recent material live, but none of the newer songs make me go, "I can't wait to see this live." It's definitely a bummer, but I have plenty of other stuff to play. Oh well.

[5hake1t0ff]

I like that interview, and I like John. It seems like some of the negative discussion assumes that Jeff was twisting everyone's arms and they didn't get an input. The way it sounds is even though there was a pretty specific template to dictate a different process, the other 4 guys got to really be imaginative in seeing what they could add.

 

I just love the first paragraph of that article. Seems to support the idea that the polarizing nature of OTJ might be suggestive of its greatness, which only time will tell.

 

And yeah, will the speculation about Jeff's tyrannical rule of "Wilco" and its potential fallout never end? The band is happy and excited to tour the new songs is just way too tepid a take these days...

[Madcap]

Yes John, vary the setlists in America, like Phish!