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22 minutes ago, sinko25 said:

 

I didn't see this so maybe I'm missing some context. I respect the fact that they're not able to unilaterally issue refunds to folks, but presumably with their name on the festival they have some pull in that respect, right? I'm sure there's plenty going on behind the scenes, just curious about this point.


Wilco may not have pull from a legal standpoint,  but as long as it’s their name on all of the branding, they have a bully pulpit which could be very influential.  They have chosen not to use it, however, and that is frustrating.  

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I wish  I wish I could share that optimism. Unfortunately, it's not just about being at an outdoor concert. There's the trip to the airport, and time spent in the airport waiting for your fligh

I'm feeling seriously depressed at the thought that the penalty for 6 days of fun in Mexico may be...could very likely be!...being stuck in a Mexican Residence Inn for 10 days!  With covid, and no par

Yep.  Hard for me to blame the guy who has essentially given away 200+ live shows on Instagram since COVID started.  I blame Cloud 9 and Trump (because I like to blame Trump for everything bad).   

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My understanding is that the way these festivals work is the promoter does a buyout of the resort, agreeing to pay the resort owner a fairly large sum of money in exchange for the right to put on the show and sell packages directly to fans.

 

The band has a contract with the promoter to allow the use of their name and to play a certain number of shows.

 

I don't know what either contract says, but I presume that the promoter is on the hook for the buyout fee unless the resort somehow is unable to deliver the rooms. And the band probably has some major penalties to pay if they cancel. They probably also have non-disparagement clauses that could cost them dearly if they used that bully pulpit unwisely.

 

The trouble with the current situation is that someone (or many someones) will probably wind up losing a pile of money. During normal times, these things were hugely profitable, but obviously the rules have changed in the COVID era.

 

What a mess.  

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To add to my frustration, I can't get anyone from Cloud 9 to respond to my emails (they aren't taking telephone calls) about transferring my reservation.  Unless they do a 180 and offer a refund option, I've decided to give my reservation to my brother and his girlfriend.  It would be nice to be able to start the process and finalize the transfer.  

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While not on the same scale as this festival, Drive-by Truckers have postponed Heathens Homecoming in Athens GA from this month until April. Seems prudent. I have 3 shows in February & am wondering if they are going to come off. Especially the Beths first weekend. They are coming from New Zealand so I'm guessing it's complicated for them. The others are DBT & the War on Drugs. DBT is make up show from 2 years ago. TWOD have cancelled the opening acts for their tour. 

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15 minutes ago, sonnyfeeling said:

My understanding is that the way these festivals work is the promoter does a buyout of the resort, agreeing to pay the resort owner a fairly large sum of money in exchange for the right to put on the show and sell packages directly to fans.

 

The band has a contract with the promoter to allow the use of their name and to play a certain number of shows.

 

I don't know what either contract says, but I presume that the promoter is on the hook for the buyout fee unless the resort somehow is unable to deliver the rooms. And the band probably has some major penalties to pay if they cancel. They probably also have non-disparagement clauses that could cost them dearly if they used that bully pulpit unwisely.

 

The trouble with the current situation is that someone (or many someones) will probably wind up losing a pile of money. During normal times, these things were hugely profitable, but obviously the rules have changed in the COVID era.

 

What a mess.  


Well yes, of course they’d use the bully pulpit wisely.  I’m not suggesting they shoot their mouths off.  It feels like Wilco doesn’t really have a publicist, or even an advocate in this  scenario.  Maybe this is a bit of myth-making thanks to the documentary, but it seemed like Tony Margherita fought for Jeff/Wilco in a way nobody seems to be doing anymore, and if he or someone like him were still their manager, I don’t think we wouldn’t have seen Jeff in near distress trying to be his own PR person on the Tweedy Show last week.

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5 minutes ago, Chez said:

To add to the frustration, I can't get anyone from Cloud 9 to respond to my emails (they aren't taking telephone calls) about transferring my reservation.  Unless they do a 180 and offer a refund option, I've decided to give my reservation to my brother and his girlfriend.  It would be nice to be able to start the process and finalize the transfer.  


That sucks.  I emailed them today to find out how to get my cancellation and insurance claim rolling.  Pretty sure I have to cancel through Cloud 9 before contacting insurance, but someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

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Well yes, of course they’d use the bully pulpit wisely. 

How would that work, exactly? Not challenging, I am just genuinely curious what options you think are available in a situation that seems to have very few good outcomes. I imagine there are some fairly testy conversations going on behind the scenes between promoter and band, but those are obviously not public.

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10 minutes ago, sonnyfeeling said:

How would that work, exactly? Not challenging, I am just genuinely curious what options you think are available in a situation that seems to have very few good outcomes. I imagine there are some fairly testy conversations going on behind the scenes between promoter and band, but those are obviously not public.


i won’t pretend to be a publicist or a PR person, and I’m 100% certain I could not put the words together in an effective way,  but surely you would agree that words can be use in influential ways without burning bridges.  It’s what professionals in these fields do every day.

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It’s what professionals in these fields do every day.

I am in fact married to a person who made her living for many years as a PR person, and I make my living today by writing. :D

 

The trouble here isn't that no one has come up with the right words. It's that the party in charge (the promoter) isn't willing to make a decision that will probably bankrupt them. In the case of Dead & Co., the promoters didn't make that decision until they literally had no other choice because multiple band members and staff had come down with COVID and the show could not go on.

 

This isn't about words, it's about actions, and like I said, all of the logical outcomes here end up with someone (or many someones, i.e. fans) losing a lot of money. And regardless of how it shakes out, it's hard to imagine that fans are going to have confidence in this type of event going forward.

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25 minutes ago, tinnitus photography said:

no one on this board has any clue as to how the contracts are structured, so conjecture about what could/should be done is just that - conjecture.


99% of posts on any forum are just opinions, so who cares.  Let’s conject.

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23 minutes ago, tinnitus photography said:

no one on this board has any clue as to how the contracts are structured, so conjecture about what could/should be done is just that - conjecture.

I have some idea how the buyout contracts with the resorts work, because I have a family member who has worked on those contracts at this very resort. And of course Mr. Tweedy has spoken about the fact that Wilco is contracted with the promoter to perform at the show.

 

But you don't need to read the contract in detail to understand that all this is going to result in financial hardship for many of the people involved. 

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6 hours ago, sonnyfeeling said:

My understanding is that the way these festivals work is the promoter does a buyout of the resort, agreeing to pay the resort owner a fairly large sum of money in exchange for the right to put on the show and sell packages directly to fans.

 

The band has a contract with the promoter to allow the use of their name and to play a certain number of shows.

 

I don't know what either contract says, but I presume that the promoter is on the hook for the buyout fee unless the resort somehow is unable to deliver the rooms. And the band probably has some major penalties to pay if they cancel. They probably also have non-disparagement clauses that could cost them dearly if they used that bully pulpit unwisely.

 

The trouble with the current situation is that someone (or many someones) will probably wind up losing a pile of money. During normal times, these things were hugely profitable, but obviously the rules have changed in the COVID era.

 

What a mess.  

@sonnyfeeling thanks for this explanation, this makes sense to me.  At this point, I see only 2 situations where SBS is canceled or postponed (my ideal scenario):  Situation #1 would be too many positive COVID tests on arrival of musicians/crew/Cloud 9 staff, , like what happened with Dead & Co. Situation #2 is that Quintana Roo is declared to be either orange or red status on Jan 17th by their local government, which requires businesses/hotels to decrease their maximum capacities of guests, etc...we will see.

 

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It wouldn’t surprise me if this event is able to slide through any potential capacity restrictions just due to the number of guest cancellations.  This depends, though, on the number of people who officially cancel (those with “cancel for any reason“ insurance, or other insurable claims) and the number who simply do not show up and remain on the hotel’s booking log (people who don’t have insurable claims and therefore have no reason to notify the event that they aren’t coming).  If the event thinks more guests are coming than actually are, they might end up being forced to cancel even though the actual number of guests who do show up is within the allowable capacity.

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On 1/7/2022 at 9:27 AM, Chez said:

After cycling back and forth every 10 minutes for the past three weeks - "to go or not to go,"  my wife convinced me last night that I'd be a moron (actually she said, "even a bigger moron than usual") if I go.  So I'm out.  At least for now. 

 

I don't know either one of you, but your wife sounds hilarious!  I'm getting a big Susie Tweedy vibe!  :lol

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Buried in bottom/ middle  of “Welcome” email 30 minutes ago. TIL that the additions to the lineup are friends with Cloud9. Seriously, hope all are well. 😷

 

 

MUSIC & ACTIVITIES AWAIT!

The 2022 schedule features four incredible days of music and activities in the fresh air on the Caribbean coast! Sadly, Waxahatchee, Mountain Man, and Julian Lage are no longer able to join us in Mexico but we are grateful to welcome our friends Soccer Mommy and Ohmme (with Spencer Tweedy on drums) who will now be joining the fiesta. In addition, Nels Cline will present a rare solo performance featuring his avant-garde and experimental electronic soundscapes.

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So, any word on whether or not Mavis is appearing? I'd think she's got to have underlying health issues that would preclude her from appearing...

 

 

 

37 minutes ago, dagwave said:

Buried in bottom/ middle  of “Welcome” email 30 minutes ago. TIL that the additions to the lineup are friends with Cloud9. Seriously, hope all are well. 😷data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

 

 

MUSIC & ACTIVITIES AWAIT!

The 2022 schedule features four incredible days of music and activities in the fresh air on the Caribbean coast! Sadly, Waxahatchee, Mountain Man, and Julian Lage are no longer able to join us in Mexico but we are grateful to welcome our friends Soccer Mommy and Ohmme (with Spencer Tweedy on drums) who will now be joining the fiesta. In addition, Nels Cline will present a rare solo performance featuring his avant-garde and experimental electronic soundscapes.

N

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1 hour ago, BigDitchStan said:

So, any word on whether or not Mavis is appearing? I'd think she's got to have underlying health issues that would preclude her from appearing...

 

 

 

N

Mavis is still in, but I agree.  I hope she isn’t going out of a sense of obligation.  Maybe the Hard rock corporate jet is flying her and the Tweedy’s to and from the event so they don’t have to go through an airport.

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10 hours ago, jff said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if this event is able to slide through any potential capacity restrictions just due to the number of guest cancellations.  This depends, though, on the number of people who officially cancel (those with “cancel for any reason“ insurance, or other insurable claims) and the number who simply do not show up and remain on the hotel’s booking log (people who don’t have insurable claims and therefore have no reason to notify the event that they aren’t coming).  If the event thinks more guests are coming than actually are, they might end up being forced to cancel even though the actual number of guests who do show up is within the allowable capacity.

seeing as though the cancelation deadline is (i think) 2 days before the festival starts, the email sent today by Cloud 9 would refute your conjecture.

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12 hours ago, tinnitus photography said:

seeing as though the cancelation deadline is (i think) 2 days before the festival starts, the email sent today by Cloud 9 would refute your conjecture.

I don’t follow.  I didn’t get an email from them, but that might be because I cancelled earlier today.  
 

Edit:
 

What I said wasn’t conjecture.  It’s a fact that some ticket holders will 1. Not cancel and 2. Not attend.  Therefore, Hard Rock’s booking log (or whatever the hotel industry term is) will not be accurate since they are expecting people in that category to show up.  The cancellation deadline is a non-factor in the scenario I am describing.

 

But I am interested  in what Cloud 9 has to say that refutes any of those facts, if anyone would care to share it here.

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19 hours ago, jff said:

I don’t follow.  I didn’t get an email from them, but that might be because I cancelled earlier today.  
 

Edit:
 

What I said wasn’t conjecture.  It’s a fact that some ticket holders will 1. Not cancel and 2. Not attend.  Therefore, Hard Rock’s booking log (or whatever the hotel industry term is) will not be accurate since they are expecting people in that category to show up.  The cancellation deadline is a non-factor in the scenario I am describing.

 

But I am interested  in what Cloud 9 has to say that refutes any of those facts, if anyone would care to share it here.

i guess it wasn't in that email (or my searching skills are on the wane, or both), maybe it was a snippet that someone else had posted to the SBS group. but, it was to the point that they already comply with the % capacity rules set by Quintana Roo so any future cancellations or non-cancellations shouldn't affect that particular possible constraint.

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