Jon Papelbon is the best baseball thread ever

[bobbob1313]

Just finished watching MetsvMarlins. These Marlins are good, but they are not a playoff team. Not this year at least... Sorry bobbob. An error and a crossup between the pitcher and catcher. Mets score 3 in the 11th. They're almost there, but they are not there yet.

 

The Mets have nothing to play for and the Marlins are fighting for the playoffs and the Mets still won 2 of 3. This is a team I am worried about for next year. Not this year though...

 

Two tough losses for you bobbob. But look on the bright side. The future looks promising.

 

I think we'll definetly be a force to be reckoned with next year if the pitching keeps it up. I mean, when Dontrelle Willis has been your most inconsistent pitcher, you know you've got a special staff.

[MattZ]

I think we'll definetly be a force to be reckoned with next year if the pitching keeps it up. I mean, when Dontrelle Willis has been your most inconsistent pitcher, you know you've got a special staff.

 

Yeah I have to admit it. Your preposterous trash talking notwithstanding, these Marlins have impressed me the last few weeks. You are going to have a fun team to root for. As a baseball fan, thats something that can keep you happy for the long winter break.

 

It aint over til its over, but still, a toast to the marlins... I can root for a team like them. They certainly have heart.

[bobbob1313]

The Twins rushed Liriano back and he left the game and is done for the season. They may have ruined the best young pitcher in the league for what, 3 potential starts?

 

We should all chip in and get them a big cake and write "Was it worth it?" on it for them.

[MrRain422]

Well, I think they were hoping to have him back in tip-top shape for the playoffs. A Santana-Liriano combo in the playoffs could have made the Twins the favorites in the AL. It was a risk that I don't really blame them for, to be honest.

[explodo]

Well, I think they were hoping to have him back in tip-top shape for the playoffs. A Santana-Liriano combo in the playoffs could have made the Twins the favorites in the AL. It was a risk that I don't really blame them for, to be honest.

Could have brought him back a few weeks from now, I would think. Seems like they wanted him back to make sure they got to the playoffs. A risk they really can't be blamed for (winning is the goal and all), but could really fuck them and him in the future.

 

 

EDIT: Scratch that. It is already September 14th. Jesus. I've been so out of it lately. I thought it was like the 2nd.

[phonophore]

From what I heard last night, they may even lose Lirano for most if not all of next season too. They definitely made a serious mistake.

 

The Tigers continue to dissapoint me. They had a golden opportunity last night to pick up a game on the Twins and build on the momentum of Guillen's walk-off on Tuesday night and laid an egg. They better sweep the Orioles, because the Sox series starts next week. Good god, are they gonna blow this thing completely?

[MrRain422]

The Tigers continue to dissapoint me. They had a golden opportunity last night to pick up a game on the Twins and build on the momentum of Guillen's walk-off on Tuesday night and laid an egg. They better sweep the Orioles, because the Sox series starts next week. Good god, are they gonna blow this thing completely?

 

[c53x12]

From what I heard last night, they may even lose Lirano for most if not all of next season too. They definitely made a serious mistake.

"Doctor" Jeff Brantley on BB Tonight was speculating a torn ligament, with an 18-24 month recovery.

[MrRain422]

Was he just speculating on that or did he have a legit source? Because Brantley is sort of dumb (and as you indicated, um, not a doctor), so if it was just his own estimate, it's pretty worthless.

 

Anyway, yeah, it was a big mistake, but I don't fault them for it. There's no way they could have known it would have happened like this, and if the doctors said he was healthy to throw, then how could they not try to bring him back for the playoff push?

[Sir Stewart]

Speaking of fashion week, the Boston Red Sox have unveiled a new line of clothing this week

[phonophore]

Did they let the Tigers borrow the Red Sox seam ripping uniforms? If so, could they please return them for Wild Card contention credit?

[tongue-tied lightning]

any slim chance the Reds had, is now gone

 

bye, bye wildcard

[bobbob1313]

Well, I think they were hoping to have him back in tip-top shape for the playoffs. A Santana-Liriano combo in the playoffs could have made the Twins the favorites in the AL. It was a risk that I don't really blame them for, to be honest.

 

If Liriano is as seriously injured as some people think, then I think they should've waited until at least the playoffs. No need to mortgage your future like that. It was too big of a risk to take with a player who could have been one of the top 3 at his position for the next decade. They Mark Prior'ed him, basically.

[MrRain422]

If Liriano is as seriously injured as some people think, then I think they should've waited until at least the playoffs. No need to mortgage your future like that. It was too big of a risk to take with a player who could have been one of the top 3 at his position for the next decade. They Mark Prior'ed him, basically.

 

Well first off, no one thought it was as serious before yesterday as they do now. When they activated him from the DL, they were relying on the advice of their doctors. Personally, I trust doctors.

 

Also, right now they're barely in a playoff spot. What if they're not this good again for the next 15 years? They aren't the Yankees. For most teams, if they find themselves in a position to make a playoff run, they have to do what it takes to make it happen.

[bobbob1313]

Well first off, no one thought it was as serious before yesterday as they do now. When they activated him from the DL, they were relying on the advice of their doctors. Personally, I trust doctors.

 

Also, right now they're barely in a playoff spot. What if they're not this good again for the next 15 years? They aren't the Yankees. For most teams, if they find themselves in a position to make a playoff run, they have to do what it takes to make it happen.

 

With a healthy Liriano and Santana, you'll be in the hunt more than you are out of it.

 

It's a judgement call, really, I'm just saying I saw the Marlins rush Josh Beckett and AJ Burnett back one too many times to think that it's ever worth the gamble.

[bobbob1313]

 

[MattZ]

I was 10 in 1986. Before Game 6 of the world series I prayed as hard as I ever had that the Mets would find a way...

 

I have spent the next 20 years wondering if these 20 years were my payback. And also wondering if the Jets and Knicks of these past 20 years were thrown in for good measure...

 

[bjorn_skurj]

I was 10 in 1986. Before Game 6 of the world series I prayed as hard as I ever had that the Mets would find a way...

 

I have spent the next 20 years wondering if these 20 years were my payback. And also wondering if the Jets and Knicks of these past 20 years were thrown in for good measure...

 

There are plenty of real-world reasons the Mets have generally sucked since then. The Jets and Knicks too, for that matter.

There are some Yankees fans who believe that since they told the Man Upstairs they would never ask for another World Series win after 2000, the Yankees will never win another World Series.

[wheelco]

call it dinner time,

 

the Reds are cooked!

[tongue-tied lightning]

yeah, fun run though. A frustrating one, for sure.

 

500 was my goal, and they seem to be on target for that.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

Have the Tiggers won a series since they got Neifi Perez?

 

I can't believe Leyland batted him leadoff a couple of games.

 

Edit: I see that a statistic has already been coined to measure such things, the Neifi Index. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neifi_Index

[MrRain422]

The Tigers started their slide before they got Neifi, and it's only gotten worse since then.

 

Batting him leadoff is just ridiculous. Having him in the lineup at all is stupid (Omar Infante, while not great, is a whole lot better), but maximizing his plate appearances is the most backwards thinking I can think of. That being said, if the Tigers hold on to their playoff spot, Leyland is still going to win Manager of the Year anyway.

 

I hate Neifi.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

A couple of fun pitching match-ups today between Twins v. Injuns and Blue Jays v Steve Irwin Assassins.

[cryptique]

Have the Tiggers won a series since they got Neifi Perez?

 

I can't believe Leyland batted him leadoff a couple of games.

 

Edit: I see that a statistic has already been coined to measure such things, the Neifi Index. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neifi_Index

Salon.com readers have been hip to the Neifi Index for a while. I definitely rolled my eyes when the Cubs acquired him.

 

Here's Kaufman's update from just yesterday:

 

Neifi Perez doing his thing in' date=' er, to Detroit[/b']

 

Speaking of dumb stats invented by this column, reader Eric Schleder suggests that perhaps it's time to revive the Neifi Index because its namesake, Neifi Perez, is really shining this year, Neifi-wise.

 

You'll recall that the Neifi Index measures the difference in winning percentage for a player's team when he plays and when he doesn't play. It was invented during Perez's time with the San Francisco Giants, when they pretty much never won when he played and never lost when he sat.

 

Schleder, a Cubs fan, made the suggestion in mid-August, before Perez was traded from Chicago to the Detroit Tigers, forcing him to leave a manager with an inexplicable love for him, Dusty Baker, but happily landing him in the arms of the other one, Jim Leyland.

 

But Schleder wrote back the other day to point out that just as Perez had been doing his Neifi thing with the Cubs, he's Neifi-ized the Tigers.

 

Since Perez joined Detroit on Aug. 21, the Tigers have gone 8-14, continuing a slide that had begun two weeks earlier and has brought the Tigers back to the rest of the A.L. Central. As of Thursday morning they led the Minnesota Twins by a game and a half.

 

When Perez, whom Leyland often bats first or second, has been in the lineup, the Tigers have gone 4-11, a winning percentage of .267, which is hauntingly similar to Perez's anemic on-base percentage, .258.

 

When he stays glued to the bench where he belongs -- even though the Tigers acquired him to fill in for the injured Placido Polanco at second base -- the Tigers are 4-3, .571. Subtracting .267 from .571 gives Perez a Neifi Index of .304, which is a Neifi Award kind of number.

 

Perez had the same effect on the Cubs during the first four and a half months of the season. Of course he did. He's Neifi Perez.

 

When they traded Perez, the Cubs were 53-70. But they were 36-51, .414, when he played, and 17-19, .472, when he sat. If they'd just left him on the bench, played with 24 guys, they'd have been 58-65 overall, a mere five and a half games out in the wild-card race, rather than 10 and a half out.

 

But wait, it gets better. This is hard to remember now, but the Cubs started off pretty well this year. They were 14-10 on May 2 -- 8-8 when Perez played, 6-2 when he didn't -- when they started an eight-game losing streak. They never recovered. They went 7-22 in May, 9-18 in June.

 

There was a lot of talk about the injured pitchers and Derrek Lee's wrist but o-ho, dear readers, you and I know what was really up. Neifi was up. He was up about 60 times in May and about 50 times in June. That's about 110 times too many.

 

In May, the Cubs were 2-18 when Perez played, but they were 5-4 -- they were a winning team! -- when he stayed in the dugout. That is a colossal Neifi Index of .446. To give you some context, the difference between the winning percentages of the best and worst teams in baseball, the New York Mets and Kansas City Royals, is .237. And Neifi Perez, one guy, made almost twice that difference for the Cubs!

 

And don't talk to me about small sample size. You don't need large sample sizes to know about the Neifi Effect.

 

In June the Cubs were 5-13 with Neifi, 4-5 without him, for a Neifi Index of .166, which is nothing to write home about, but it is hauntingly similar to Perez's slugging percentage since joining the Tigers, .167.

 

But you know, life is complicated. Neifi Perez did not, in fact, win the Neifi Award in 2003, the only year it was awarded. And now that the Cubs have traded Perez, you'd think they'd become the roughly .500 team they were when he was in uniform but not on the field. But it hasn't worked out that way.

 

The Cubs are 5-18 in the post-Neifi era, a winning percentage of .217. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but it is hauntingly similar to Perez's on-base percentage since joining the Tigers, .216.

 

The magic of Neifi is a great and mysterious thing.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

A couple of fun pitching match-ups today between Twins v. Injuns

Wow, Carmona is actually beating Santana. Not sure if it will hold up through Cleveland's lously bullpen, but some gamblers will make some money if it does.