Election 2008

[MrRain422]

When you get down to it, these candidates are not THAT different on policy.

 

You're crazy.

[Moe_Syzlak]

You're crazy.

Thanks for thoughtful response. I see my pessimism wasn't unwarranted.

[MrRain422]

I think perhaps you're reading too much into my comment. My point is, they really aren't very similar on policy.

[Moe_Syzlak]

I think perhaps you're reading too much into my comment. My point is, they really aren't very similar on policy.

Care to elaborate? My point is that they are much more similar than Kerry/Bush, Bush/Gore, Clinton/Dole, Clinton/Bush, etc. There are differences but not as stark as the media makes them out to be by calling Obama socialist, etc.

[MattZ]

Care to elaborate? My point is that they are much more similar than Kerry/Bush, Bush/Gore, Clinton/Dole, Clinton/Bush, etc. There are differences but not as stark as the media makes them out to be by calling Obama socialist, etc.

 

Moe, to be honest, I'd be curious to see you elaborate. McCain wants us in iraq for 15 yrs (not 100 anymore), and Obama wants us out asap. Obama wants to engage Iran diplomatically, McCain doesnt. McCain wants to make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Obama doesnt. Obama wants universal health care. McCain toes a very convenient line on abortion, gun control, etc. Obama is a typical Dem on those issues. McCain will appoint Supreme Court justices in the Roberts/Alito mold. Obama will not.

 

They seem pretty different to me. Where do you see the similarities? I agree that anything different than Bush/Cheney is an improvement, but that doesn't make them similar.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

Moe, to be honest, I'd be curious to see you elaborate. McCain wants us in iraq for 15 yrs (not 100 anymore), and Obama wants us out asap. Obama wants to engage Iran diplomatically, McCain doesnt. McCain wants to make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Obama doesnt. Obama wants universal health care. McCain toes a very convenient line on abortion, gun control, etc. Obama is a typical Dem on those issues. McCain will appoint Supreme Court justices in the Roberts/Alito mold. Obama will not.

 

They seem pretty different to me. Where do you see the similarities? I agree that anything different than Bush/Cheney is an improvement, but that doesn't make them similar.

 

I'm not 100 percent sure Obama could get us out of Iraq ASAP, even if he was president. As far as universal health care, Obama is 100% for this either -- a major campaign difference between he and Clinton.

 

You are likely right on the SC issue.

 

The bottom line is you go to either candidate you're going to get a watered down version of either party.

 

At least there's not a complete and utter moron on the ballot for other complete and utter morons to re-elect again.

[MrRain422]

I seriously can't think of one major issue in which Obama and McCain have similar positions. I know a lot of people who think they both do, but I think a lot of them are unaware of the ways in which McCain has changed his positions over the last decade or so.

[EL the Famous]

 

i proudly join rapper ludacris and present to you the OFFICIAL ENDORSEMENT OF THE DALEK NATION (aka 'STOP! OBAMA TIME')

[jc4prez]

Moe, to be honest, I'd be curious to see you elaborate. McCain wants us in iraq for 15 yrs (not 100 anymore), and Obama wants us out asap. Obama wants to engage Iran diplomatically, McCain doesnt. McCain wants to make the Bush tax cuts permanent. Obama doesnt. Obama wants universal health care. McCain toes a very convenient line on abortion, gun control, etc. Obama is a typical Dem on those issues. McCain will appoint Supreme Court justices in the Roberts/Alito mold. Obama will not.

 

They seem pretty different to me. Where do you see the similarities? I agree that anything different than Bush/Cheney is an improvement, but that doesn't make them similar.

 

 

Obama is very careful how he talks about Iraq; were not going anywhere. The man is further to the right then Nixon. Obama can talk domestic polices all he wants but their not going to happen unless we shed this military budget, something Obama isn't planning on doing.

[jc4prez]

I'm not 100 percent sure Obama could get us out of Iraq ASAP, even if he was president. As far as universal health care, Obama is 100% for this either -- a major campaign difference between he and Clinton.

 

You are likely right on the SC issue.

 

The bottom line is you go to either candidate you're going to get a watered down version of either party.

 

At least there's not a complete and utter moron on the ballot for other complete and utter morons to re-elect again.

 

Obama is not talking health care because of the military budget. You should all check out this article from the LA Times:

Indefensible Spending

[JUDE]

i proudly join rapper ludacris and present to you the OFFICIAL ENDORSEMENT OF THE DALEK NATION (aka 'STOP! OBAMA TIME')

 

I can't believe you've sold out your normally somewhat interesting blog in order to become a freaking Air America ElFamous 24-7 knock off.

 

You should change your username to El Olberman cause you're the worst-est.

 

 

.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

Obama is very careful how he talks about Iraq; were not going anywhere. The man is further to the right then Nixon. Obama can talk domestic polices all he wants but their not going to happen unless we shed this military budget, something Obama isn't planning on doing.

 

I think the main thing that's overlooked about Iraq is that -- despite the whole WMD hoax -- there was plausible world concern to go in and depose Saddam. Where the whole thing became intercoursed up was the Bush administration didn't have a plan for once they took the country, they had no real plan to contain, rebuild and reinstall local rule -- and most importanlty they did not provide enough manpower to effective do any of that until after it was too late. They figured they'd get the video bites and then get a direct hookup to the oil.

 

I don't know about Obama being worse than Nixon, but something is going to have to be done decisively, or else thousands of U.S. soldiers, arguably hundreds of thousands Iraqi are going to have died in vain and the pull out will provide one big sucking sound worse than Saigon.

[MattZ]

I'm not 100 percent sure Obama could get us out of Iraq ASAP, even if he was president. As far as universal health care, Obama is 100% for this either -- a major campaign difference between he and Clinton.

 

I should have stressed the AP at the end of ASAP. I didn't mean to suggest that Obama's position is to get us out quickly without regard to the ramifications. That being said, McCain is resigned to at least 15 more yrs of this debacle. Obama at least has a goal of getting us out as soon as possible. They are both coming at this issue from very different perspectives.

 

I agree that Obama can't wave a magic wand and get us out. I don't think he is suggesting that, though.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

I should have stressed the AP at the end of ASAP. I didn't mean to suggest that Obama's position is to get us out quickly without regard to the ramifications. That being said, McCain is resigned to at least 15 more yrs of this debacle. Obama at least has a goal of getting us out as soon as possible. They are both coming at this issue from very different perspectives.

 

I agree that Obama can't wave a magic wand and get us out. I don't think he is suggesting that, though.

 

My concern is, about many of his promises, he's not giving specifics about much of anything -- but particularly about Iraq. "I was against it from the start," got him the nomination. NOW what is he going to do?!?

[MrRain422]

My concern is, about many of his promises, he's not giving specifics about much of anything -- but particularly about Iraq. "I was against it from the start," got him the nomination. NOW what is he going to do?!?

 

Short version:

 

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

 

Press Iraq

[solace]

My concern is, about many of his promises, he's not giving specifics about much of anything -- but particularly about Iraq. "I was against it from the start," got him the nomination. NOW what is he going to do?!?

 

are you new to how the US Presidential process works?

 

nobody truly gives that many specifics until the general election... but read Barack's website for a lot of info

 

edit: jinx!

[Moe_Syzlak]

Well, as I said, the war issue is the one area of stark difference, IMO. I said, aside from that issue (as I am still not sure withdrawal is the best option). If that is your issue, then you have your clear distinction. I do not. On taxes, McCain is proposing keeping the tax cut, because he sees pulling it back as dangerous in the current economic climate. He was opposed to it in the first place and making it permanent needs to come with more fiscal responsibility and focus on the deficit. As for guns, abortion, etc.... I don't think McCain is nearly as conservative as some of you seem to think and he is not nearly as ardent on those issues as recent Republican candidates. Yes, he will appoint more conservative justices than Obama, but again, I don't believe they will be of the Roberts, Scalia molds as you seem to think. McCain has always been a bit of an outsider to the GOP. He is now trying to shore up support from the GOP base, but I believe he can't change his stripes. As much as he tries to campaign right, he will fall back more towards the middle if elected (again, much more so than any GOP candidate of recent memory). Just as Bush isn't really the "compassionate conservative" he campaigned as. Again, I am not saying they are identical. I am saying that they are much MORE similar than in any recent contests and I don't see (other than Iraq) any huge differences in the direction of the country should one or the other be elected. What I DO see is two candidates that have more potential to bring people together than anyone I can remember. I think THAT outweighs the differences.

[MattZ]

My concern is, about many of his promises, he's not giving specifics about much of anything -- but particularly about Iraq. "I was against it from the start," got him the nomination. NOW what is he going to do?!?

 

 

I share your concern about the reality of the situation, but they couldn't be more different about the way they are approaching Iraq. If we don't get out within a reasonable timeframe under an Obama administration, it will be a failure of his administration. If we dont get out within a reasonable timeframe under a McCain administration, it will be a success.

[solace]

I share your concern about the reality of the situation, but they couldn't be more different about the way they are approaching Iraq. If we don't get out within a reasonable timeframe under an Obama administration, it will be a failure of his administration. If we dont get out within a reasonable timeframe under a McCain administration, it will be a success.

 

[MrRain422]

Iraq is the single most important issue of our time though. Seems sort of disingenuous to me to say, "Well, they're really rather similar other than on the most important, biggest issue." Aside from the fact that they aren't really alike on any of the other major issues anyway.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

are you new to how the US Presidential process works?

 

nobody truly gives that many specifics until the general election... but read Barack's website for a lot of info

 

edit: jinx!

 

I have read it, and I think he says all the right things for all the right people. Putting *anything* in practice is another matter.

 

In a tightly contested primary, Clinton did talk more specifics here.

 

This is a key difference between the parties, just as in 2004. He will have to debate McCain with specifics and convince those who make a discerned vote.

 

I'm not new enough to the U.S. presidential process to know that the majority of voters can be swayed by "let's get out of Iraq" today, "let's get oil prices lower, regardless of what it takes" tomorrow, and "I vote for Buffy because she has the best hair" by the first Tuesday in Nov. That's how idiots like Dubya come into power.

[Guest Cousin Tupelo]

I share your concern about the reality of the situation, but they couldn't be more different about the way they are approaching Iraq. If we don't get out within a reasonable timeframe under an Obama administration, it will be a failure of his administration. If we dont get out within a reasonable timeframe under a McCain administration, it will be a success.

 

I realize they're different and I think that's the point I'm making. But you got me with that point.

 

[W(TF)]

Bringing Our Troops Home

Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

 

Press Iraq

[EL the Famous]

Just another reason why there will be attempts made on Obama's life in the next few months.

 

newest member: federalbureauofinvestigation47

[solace]

I have read it, and I think he says all the right things for all the right people. Putting *anything* in practice is another matter.

 

In a tightly contested primary, Clinton did talk more specifics here.

 

This is a key difference between the parties, just as in 2004. He will have to debate McCain with specifics and convince those who make a discerned vote.

 

I'm not new enough to the U.S. presidential process to know that the majority of voters can be swayed by "let's get out of Iraq" today, "let's get oil prices lower, regardless of what it takes" tomorrow, and "I vote for Buffy because she has the best hair" by the first Tuesday in Nov. That's how idiots like Dubya come into power.

 

fair enough... i guess i've heard plenty enough specifics from him, but i've also been following him more closely than the average voter probably would and watched dozens and dozens of his speeches, etc.