Good Old Neon Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I think you will find that a pretty good block of voters will have preconceived beliefs that his color may very well effect his ability to lead.They may not be real vocal about it but if you believe this country has reached the point of being color blind you are quite delusional. True, but unlike age, race is in no way an indicator of a person Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Comparing the two is comparing apples to oranges. I Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Call them whatever you want, but they vote. Alot of them. No doubt, I Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 pedophiles vote too y'know Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Call them whatever you want, but they vote. Alot of them.Here's a fascinating look into that world. From Al Jazeera of all places! Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Here's a fascinating look into that world. From Al Jazeera of all places!That's fucking funny. Their version of our typical "All Arabs Are Terrorists" piece. Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I find it humorous that people are so quick to discount that his race may be an issue. It won Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I find it humorous that people are so quick to discount that his race may be an issue. It won Link to post Share on other sites
JUDE Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Everyone agrees that his race may be an issue in the upcoming election. His race does not affect whether or not he can make decisions competently, while age might. I don't think I was making that argument. I'm making the point that it's not out of line to believe that some voters (who are quite rational about everything else) very well may think that his race can have an adverse effect on his ability to govern or make decisions Also I'd be curious if someone could provide data as to numbers of voters by age group. Link to post Share on other sites
solace Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I find it humorous that people are so quick to discount that his race may be an issue. It won't be a frontline topic of discussion granted but to ignore the fact that many people who don't necessarily see themselves as being racist do have a deeply ingrained idea of social and economic separation based upon color, religion, etc. For example my grandmother who I don't feel is racist (I'm sure someone will point out that she is) still believes that whites shouldn't work in the food services because of a stigma attached to it carried over from her formative years. Does she promote the idea, no but it is there. it will make a difference, but i'm guessing 4-5% at the most, which obviously is enough to sway the tide, but i'd like to have more faith in people i guess... Link to post Share on other sites
myboyblue Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 it will make a difference, but i'm guessing 4-5% at the most, which obviously is enough to sway the tide, but i'd like to have more faith in people i guess... I agree with you but I'm not sure why. "People" haven't given us a reason to have more faith in them. Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 It'll be hard to quantify the race effect to any degree of certainty. Will it outweigh the fact that Obama is outraising McCain in the cash department? We shall see. Great days we're livin', brothers and sisters. We are witnesses to history. Link to post Share on other sites
caliber66 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I don't think I was making that argument. I'm making the point that it's not out of line to believe that some voters (who are quite rational about everything else) very well may think that his race can have an adverse effect on his ability to govern or make decisions Also I'd be curious if someone could provide data as to numbers of voters by age group.I agree that some voters may think that way. I think we are making two separate arguments here. Age demonstrably affects one's cognitive ability; race does not. Do different people believe that each can affect one's ability to lead? Sure. Will Obama's race affect his ability to win the election? Perhaps. Will it affect his ability to function as President, should he be elected? I don't believe so. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I agree that some voters may think that way. I think we are making two separate arguments here. Age demonstrably affects one's cognitive ability; race does not. Do different people believe that each can affect one's ability to lead? Sure. Will Obama's race affect his ability to win the election? Perhaps. Will it affect his ability to function as President, should he be elected? I don't believe so. Well said. Link to post Share on other sites
Duck-Billed Catechist Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 For example my grandmother who I don Link to post Share on other sites
EL the Famous Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 race may not affect someone's ability to physically/mentally make decisions, but someone's race can most definitely influence the decisions that person makes. i don't think that obama will let his race do that, but i would never vote for jesse jackson and/or al sharpton because i think it would. does that make me racist? them? both? neither? regardless, unless mccain has been declared legally senile...basing a campaign attack around his age is kind of kindergarten if you ask me. as a card-carrying democrat, i find that behavior embarassing. racism, ageism, whatever...anything you can add an 'ism' to doesn't seem like it's good i nthis scenario. Link to post Share on other sites
Edie Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 race may not affect someone's ability to physically/mentally make decisions, but someone's race can most definitely influence the decisions that person makes. i don't think that obama will let his race do that, but i would never vote for jesse jackson and/or al sharpton because i think it would. does that make me racist? them? both? neither? regardless, unless mccain has been declared legally senile...basing a campaign attack around his age is kind of kindergarten if you ask me. as a card-carrying democrat, i find that behavior embarassing. racism, ageism, whatever...anything you can add an 'ism' to doesn't seem like it's good i nthis scenario. I agree with point two -- using McCain's age as an attack will not be effective and is playing a bad game. However, on point one, I think that you could say that any person's race affects decisions -- as does their sex, sexuality etc -- because of their experiences as X type of person. So in other words, our country has always been run by someone with the vantage point of being white, straight, and male. . Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Kinsley Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The issue with McCain's age is less about decision-making and more about the likelihood he'll live to see the end of his term. He's had melanoma (which his doctors don't think will come back I should say to be fair) and frankly, he looks as crappy now as most former presidents do AFTER their terms are up. They say he's in great shape, but that job takes a lot out of you. His VP pick is crucial, not just for his electability prospects, but for the sake of the country in the above average possibility that said person has to place their hand on a Bible. Link to post Share on other sites
explodo Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Jesus, John McCain is creepy. Edit: Also, if he doesn't get a better way to read his speeches, he's toast. "My friends, I can barely see the teleprompter." Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Slate.com ran a sort of interesting story regarding the impact of HDTV on the upcoming debates - and how HD Link to post Share on other sites
bjorn_skurj Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I watched a mixed martial arts fight on Saturday in HD. It was a little too much. Link to post Share on other sites
Good Old Neon Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 From CNN - The Illinois senator makes history as the first African-American to lead a U.S. major-party ticket. All party affiliations aside (or lack thereof) - this is really quite incredible, this history we are all witness to this evening. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 I agree with point two -- using McCain's age as an attack will not be effective and is playing a bad game. However, on point one, I think that you could say that any person's race affects decisions -- as does their sex, sexuality etc -- because of their experiences as X type of person. So in other words, our country has always been run by someone with the vantage point of being white, straight, and male. . This is a pressing and fascinating conundrum. Biologists/Anthropologists ruled years ago that race is scientifically irrelevant, and a useless concept for organizing people into groups. In other words that it does not exist. This does not erase its effect on all things social. It exists in the way people see each other whether or not it is a concrete fact. This is where myth becomes reality. Someone's self-perception based on race combined with others perception of it, creates a real life situation. Which effects decisions. But since I'm in a round about way agreeing with Edie, I think that it would be good to have someone with a different vantage point in office. The old white guys have had lots of turns at this country running stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
OOO Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 CNN just noted that Senator Obama will give his acceptance speech on August 28, 2008... 45 years, to the day, after Martin Luther King gave his "I have a dream" speech in Washington DC. Link to post Share on other sites
lost highway Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Wow. We just watched a piece of history. More to come....... Link to post Share on other sites
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