Bob Dylan vs. Jeff Tweedy

[LouieB]

You know who they call "The Poor Man's Bob Dylan", right?

Actually no I don't....tell me please....

 

 

Townes for one would never have picked up a guitar if it weren't for Dylan's first few records. He said so himself. I think Leonard Cohen falls into that camp as well. One of the great things Bob Dylan did was open the door for the legions of singers who posessed untrained, or just plain strange voices.

 

Just food for thought.

I agree with you on this. While there were certainly many singsongwriters prior to Dylan (though not a ton), his inspiration was monumental. Dylan gave any number of people a new way to view their need to express themselves. There are very few members of that generation of performers and even many in the intervening years, that derived inspiration from Dylan. His songbook is the inspiration for many generations of writers, including Jeff. Uncle Tupelo had several Dylan songs in their repetoire and he still performs a song or two even now.

 

And yes, Leonard Cohen was a poet, not a songwriter prior to Dylan.

 

LouieB

[Lammycat]

One of the great things Bob Dylan did was open the door for the legions of singers who posessed untrained, or just plain strange voices.

I agree with this, but let's also not forget that Dylan was influenced by others before him: Woody(obviously) , Hank Williams, Odetta, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Mike Seeger, Jesse Fuller (that neck harmonica deal, too), etc. As well as poets like Rimbaud, Verlaine, and the Beats.

 

A lot of his most notorious songs ("Blowin' in the Wind," A Hard Rain's...," "Like A Rolling Stone," "Don't Think Twice...," etc.) he based, at least in part, on traditional songs, too.

 

This isn't to take away from the incredible music the man has made, but merely to point out that even the master(s) borrow/receive influence and inspiration from others.

[Analogman]

I agree with this, but let's also not forget that Dylan was influenced by others before him: Woody(obviously) , Hank Williams, Odetta, Ramblin' Jack Elliot, Mike Seeger, Jesse Fuller (that neck harmonica deal, too), etc. As well as poets like Rimbaud, Verlaine, and the Beats.

 

I said some of that in this thread - I think.

 

Also - you can not teach talent, you are either born with it, or not. I think he was born with something special, as were others, John Lennon, Brian Wilson, etc.

 

I know that is not the popular view these days, but after listening to these artists (among others) for almost 30 years, that is my belief.

[M. (hristine]

This part of Bradley's interview of Dylan on 60 Minutes has always haunted me:

 

 

ED BRADLEY: I've read somewhere that you wrote 'Blowin' in the Wind' in 10 minutes

[bjorn_skurj]

I said some of that in this thread - I think.

 

Also - you can not teach talent, you are either born with it, or not. I think he was born with something special, as were others, John Lennon, Brian Wilson, etc.

 

I know that is not the popular view these days, but after listening to these artists (among others) for almost 30 years, that is my belief.

It is certainly true in my experience, vis-a-vis writing. There's a lot about reporting I can teach, but if the basic ability to communicate is not there, I have no magic to put it there.

[oceanman]

"Townes van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." - Steve Earle

 

"I've met Bob Dylan and his bodyguards, and I don't think Steve Earle could get anywhere near his coffee table." - Townes Van Zandt

 

"Some people think Bob is a poor man's Bruce Springsteen, but personally I always thought Bruce was the rich man's Bob Seger. Love 'em both, though." - Bob Dylan

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually no I don't....tell me please....

Some say John Prine, some say Tom Waits.

[mountain bed]

"Townes van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that." - Steve Earle

 

"I've met Bob Dylan and his bodyguards, and I don't think Steve Earle could get anywhere near his coffee table." - Townes Van Zandt

 

"Some people think Bob is a poor man's Bruce Springsteen, but personally I always thought Bruce was the rich man's Bob Seger. Love 'em both, though." - Bob Dylan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some say John Prine, some say Tom Waits.

That's good stuff Oman, but where does Bob Hunter fit in to all of this?

[froggie]

bob's reached 100 in the poll and tweedy's on 28

[giraffo]

I said some of that in this thread - I think.

 

Also - you can not teach talent, you are either born with it, or not. I think he was born with something special, as were others, John Lennon, Brian Wilson, etc.

 

I know that is not the popular view these days, but after listening to these artists (among others) for almost 30 years, that is my belief.

 

I think that if you don't believe you can't teach talent, you're pretty ignorant. I'm sorry, but you think John Lennon could just pick up the guitar and play it better than me if he's never played it before? Nostalgia deifes these people because they made some pretty bold artistic strides, but I don't think anyone comes out born with an intense passion and talent for something. I don't really think "Nature" really exsists, I think each child and individual responds to their environment differently. You can't call out what child is going to be prodigious or which one isn't. Besides, if Brian Wilson (the only most likely legitimate genius of the 60's crowd) Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, and whoever else is oft labeled genius (Jagger, Young, Barrett, etc) then that is a huge amount of geniuses in one field (not to mention it is only pop music, not exactly the most intellectually involving medium, but that goes to show why Wilson might be the only of any of them to be the likely genius). I think people are really downplaying what it means to be genius if they're so quick to label these guys.

[W(TF)]

Coming back to the topic for a minute again, the Tweedy-Dylan connection via the Guthrie lyrics is pretty interesting. Unlikely enough that Dylan "passed" on looking at them, or whatever. And then for Jeff to get the opportunity some 35 years later, via Billy Bragg of all people. That is some pretty bizarre stuff. I can't help but feel that the way it happened is the way it was meant to be.

[HungryHippo]

Tweedy all the way!1

[froggie]

> Unlikely enough that Dylan "passed" on looking at them

 

he didnt pass on it. he mentions on Chronicles that he tried to get them, walking through a pool of mud but couldnt get access to them. he then mentioned that bragg/wilco got them later on

[LouieB]

> Unlikely enough that Dylan "passed" on looking at them

 

he didnt pass on it. he mentions on Chronicles that he tried to get them, walking through a pool of mud but couldnt get access to them. he then mentioned that bragg/wilco got them later on

Page 100 of Chronicles to be exact...

 

Yea there are plenty of "New Dylans" all of them not Dylan, but plenty of them worthwhile in their own right....Prine, Waits, etc. Hell tons of Dylan's associates and contemporaries we NEVER talk about here.....or rarely (Ochs, Anderson, Paxton, Van Ronk etc.)

 

As always I am not sure why we are pitting Jeff Tweedy up against Bob Dylan.....but....

 

LouieB

[Analogman]

I think that if you don't believe you can't teach talent, you're pretty ignorant. I'm sorry, but you think John Lennon could just pick up the guitar and play it better than me if he's never played it before? Nostalgia deifes these people because they made some pretty bold artistic strides, but I don't think anyone comes out born with an intense passion and talent for something. I don't really think "Nature" really exsists, I think each child and individual responds to their environment differently. You can't call out what child is going to be prodigious or which one isn't. Besides, if Brian Wilson (the only most likely legitimate genius of the 60's crowd) Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, John Lennon, and whoever else is oft labeled genius (Jagger, Young, Barrett, etc) then that is a huge amount of geniuses in one field (not to mention it is only pop music, not exactly the most intellectually involving medium, but that goes to show why Wilson might be the only of any of them to be the likely genius). I think people are really downplaying what it means to be genius if they're so quick to label these guys.

 

Oh, I didn't use the g word. I do believe people are born with an intense passion and talent for something.

[junkiesmile]

I think that if you don't believe you can't teach talent, you're pretty ignorant.

[Lammycat]

It was all over some new Dylan song

That Phil had the nerve to say sounded wrong

Dylan stopped the car, words shook like a fist

"Phil, you ain't a writer, you're a journalist"

Death of a rebel, twist of fate

If he ever thought better, he thought too late

Poor Phil Ochs, he slipped through the cracks

Judas went electric and he never looked back on....

[W(TF)]

> Unlikely enough that Dylan "passed" on looking at them

 

he didnt pass on it. he mentions on Chronicles that he tried to get them, walking through a pool of mud but couldnt get access to them. he then mentioned that bragg/wilco got them later on

 

Yep I read Chronicles when it came out. His description of the circumstances around this were odd. I mean, it was accross town, not around the world. He certainly could have gone back for it another day. Why he mentions it at all is the question. I think he may have felt too humbled by the undertaking of taking on Woody's "archives" while the man was still alive-- keep in mind Dylan was sleeping on friends' couches in those days. The other part was his description of Guthrie's kids, it seemed like this was his second family, and for whatever reasons, he needed to break free of those things so he could do what he (obviously) needed to do. It just boggles the mind that he could have become the caretaker of Woody's lyrics during the period of '62 - '65.

[Sunken mountain]

I think that if you don't believe you can't teach talent, you're pretty ignorant

 

Sorry?

"Teach talent"?

I

[Gobias Industries]

Talent is an innate property - you can't teach talent.

Skill is not an innate property - it is something you can teach.

 

You're confusing terms. Regardless, Dylan was born with more talent than virtually anyone in the world.

[Lammycat]

You're confusing terms. Regardless, Dylan was born with more talent than virtually anyone in the world.

Virtually?

 

Please. This is getting absurd.

[Sir Stewart]

I was having this argument with a terribly misguided friend of mine, and was just wondering what everyone else's thoughts were...

Please. This is getting absurd.

[Analogman]

Are you saying this thread has No Direction, period?

[GtrPlyr]

Are you saying this thread has No Direction, period?

That's some funny shit there .

[Moe_Syzlak]

By what objective measure are we making an evaluation on this hopelessly subjective comparison? Influence? There have been an awful lot of followers to the New Kids on the Block, too. Popularity? Dylan is widely heralded but not necessarily hugely popular across the board. Neither is Tweedy though. Entertainment and art are both subjective, no? So if someone likes Tweedy better than Dylan or vice versa, how can anyone argue they are wrong? I DO recognize that it makes for good internet discussion board fodder though.

 

Are you saying this thread has No Direction, period?

 

[myboyblue]

Are you saying this thread has No Direction, period?

 

Easily the best thing in this thread.