New new election thread

[bobbob1313]

Obama is different man. Just close your eyes and believe.

[Central Scrutinizer]

One minor point:

 

Am I the only one out there who is getting sick of Obama's voice. Everytime I hear him on NPR speaking about anything it's as if every topic gets the same intonation and it almost feels like every sentence is about the same length. If you I didn't listen closely to the words I'd start to think I am listening to the same statement on repeat.

 

That way he has .... of short, sharp ... punctuated pauses ... has a lulling quality.

One major point

 

I am not going to vote for McCain but Obama is starting to lose a lot of his luster for me. I voted for him in the primaries and donated money early on but my enthusiasm is waning.

 

Why?

 

In my honest opinion he is little different from other politicians and once elected I don't think the basic system of corporate/quasi-crony capitalism will change much at all. Look at his failure to vote on the pork-laden Farm Bill another legislative behemoth monster designed to reward big corporations and his refusal to back the ending of tariffs on the important of ethanol from Brazil which is 800% more energy efficient than the corn-derived ethanol which just happens to be a a special interest of some of his biggest contributors in the mid-West states Worst of all was his rejection of public campaign financing. He would tell you that this is because of his innumerable small individual contributors like me when the reality is that in recent months 75 % of his money comes from super-bundlers, PACs, Unions and Corporations.

 

And I know that's lots of people feel like is just moving to the middle as he prepares for the general election in November but I feel what this country needs is someone who will not only right many of the wrongs of the last eight years but also someone who needs to work hard to get money out of politics and to reduce the influence of lobbyists and other special interests. Their combined over-influence explains why so many laws (like the most recent bankruptcy bill or the Medicare Drug Benefit Act) have been written that favor the powerful over the ordinary person and why government has failed to provide proper oversight that could have prevented debacles like the sub-prime meltdown. Is Barack Obama that person? The more I see the less I believe. Just another politician whose strongest guiding principle is to get elected to high-office and little else and who will ultimately do little against the monied groups that are now bank-rolling his campaign. I hope I am wrong as I think he'll comfortably be elected in November. in a year when people lose jobs, inflation is rampant and record foreclosures are announced I doubt that America is likely to elect an economic illiterate like John McCain.

My problem is he hasn't luster but he hasn't won me over. I would love to be sure and convinced and I appreciate that those who are committed to him can be. I see someone playing the same games that won in the last six electons and has recast it to fit his rhetoric. Just relocating the home office from Hope, Ark., or Crawford, Texas.

 

I so much want to be made to apologize for my doubt. And no one needs to hold me to it. I really hope he can do it.

[Good Old Neon]

One minor point:

 

I am not going to vote for McCain but Obama is starting to lose a lot of his luster for me. I voted for him in the primaries and donated money early on but my enthusiasm is waning.

 

Why?

 

............

 

Well said - I have a deep sympathy for your position. Each election cycle makes it clearer and clearer that we live in a one party system with a conservative wing, and a slightly more liberal one, and with the exception of a few minor policy differences, both parties essentially want the same thing. And what is that? - to serve their corporate benefactors.

 

Today, Glen Greenwald wrote an excellent column regarding the events surrounding the Russia/Georgia conflict - in it, he points out the extreme hypocrisy underlying the current administration

[MrRain422]

Obama to announce his running mate this Saturday in Springfield, IL. The last couple days the rumor mill had Biden as the front runner, but today Biden said it wouldn't be him, so who knows. I really hope it isn't Evan Bayh.

 

McCain is to announce his next Friday in Ohio (the day after the Democratic National Convention ends) on his birthday.

[mountain bed]

Obama to announce his running mate this Saturday in Springfield, IL. The last couple days the rumor mill had Biden as the front runner, but today Biden said it wouldn't be him, so who knows. I really hope it isn't Evan Bayh.

 

McCain is to announce his next Friday in Ohio (the day after the Democratic National Convention ends) on his birthday.

Biden evidently said "I'm not the guy". Four words - gotta be a record for him to utter such a short statement.

 

I guess some cameras caught him a couple of hours later and he was saying "I don't really know, etc. etc.." So, who knows?

 

I'm totally OK with Senator Joe. I'm well aware of his potential liabilities, but I also have always been a fan of his. I wonder why the early speculation over Dodd has waned?

 

And I'm with MrRain - we don't need Bayh to be the choice, and I don't have the time or the energy to list the dozens of reasons why.

[auctioneer69]

Well said - I have a deep sympathy for your position. Each election cycle makes it clearer and clearer that we live in a one party system with a conservative wing, and a slightly more liberal one, and with the exception of a few minor policy differences, both parties essentially want the same thing. And what is that? - to serve their corporate benefactors.

 

Today, Glen Greenwald wrote an excellent column regarding the events surrounding the Russia/Georgia conflict - in it, he points out the extreme hypocrisy underlying the current administration

[John Smith]

A lot of people don't trust smart people.

 

In our country today that is an understatement. There has been a minor war on thinking anf reasoning in our country for quite some time. Education and educational institutions are looked upon with scorn in the political commentary. It seems to be more important for people to think they like a candidate or think that they feel the candidate has the right feel for things rather than does the candidate have the intellectualy ability to run the country. Or to think of it in other terms we have come to like candidates who think like we do, but if it comes down to it a hiring comitte for a fortune 500 company might not hire them. And I will freely admit that Bush is the most egregious example that I can think of. Of course the extremes always are easier to spot and always serve to illustrate points better than gradational differences.

 

 

One minor point:

 

Am I the only one out there who is getting sick of Obama's voice. Everytime I hear him on NPR speaking about anything it's as if every topic gets the same intonation and it almost feels like every sentence is about the same length. If you I didn't listen closely to the words I'd start to think I am listening to the same statement on repeat.

 

One major point

 

I am not going to vote for McCain but Obama is starting to lose a lot of his luster for me. I voted for him in the primaries and donated money early on but my enthusiasm is waning.

 

Why?

 

In my honest opinion he is little different from other politicians and once elected I don't think the basic system of corporate/quasi-crony capitalism will change much at all. Look at his failure to vote on the pork-laden Farm Bill another legislative behemoth monster designed to reward big corporations and his refusal to back the ending of tariffs on the important of ethanol from Brazil which is 800% more energy efficient than the corn-derived ethanol which just happens to be a a special interest of some of his biggest contributors in the mid-West states Worst of all was his rejection of public campaign financing. He would tell you that this is because of his innumerable small individual contributors like me when the reality is that in recent months 75 % of his money comes from super-bundlers, PACs, Unions and Corporations.

 

And I know that's lots of people feel like is just moving to the middle as he prepares for the general election in November but I feel what this country needs is someone who will not only right many of the wrongs of the last eight years but also someone who needs to work hard to get money out of politics and to reduce the influence of lobbyists and other special interests. Their combined over-influence explains why so many laws (like the most recent bankruptcy bill or the Medicare Drug Benefit Act) have been written that favor the powerful over the ordinary person and why government has failed to provide proper oversight that could have prevented debacles like the sub-prime meltdown. Is Barack Obama that person? The more I see the less I believe. Just another politician whose strongest guiding principle is to get elected to high-office and little else and who will ultimately do little against the monied groups that are now bank-rolling his campaign. I hope I am wrong as I think he'll comfortably be elected in November. in a year when people lose jobs, inflation is rampant and record foreclosures are announced I doubt that America is likely to elect an economic illiterate like John McCain.

 

Everyone will have their reasons for voting one way or another. I am voting the way I am as a protest for eight years of horrible governance by one politcal party. House sentate and presidential votes. Local votes are going to reflect the same phillosophy but will probably swing in the other direction. That being said I'm not definately going to vote one party, they still have to put forth viable candidates. If either party put forth a David Duke, or someone similarly so far outsiide the norms then there is no way that person gets my vote.

[jakobnicholas]

McCain takes the lead:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNew...0080820?sp=true

[Sir Stewart]

Obama to announce his running mate this Saturday in Springfield, IL. I really hope it isn't Evan Bayh.

I read that as "Erykah Badu" and got excited at the notion.

[Moe_Syzlak]

So I thought this was kinda funny. My fiance is an attorney in downtown Denver and she works in a building where one of the tenants is Halliburton (she doesn't work for Halliburton). Today, in preparation for the DNC, the city is removing the Halliburton signs from the building.

[Good Old Neon]

In our country today that is an understatement. There has been a minor war on thinking anf reasoning in our country for quite some time. Education and educational institutions are looked upon with scorn in the political commentary. It seems to be more important for people to think they like a candidate or think that they feel the candidate has the right feel for things rather than does the candidate have the intellectualy ability to run the country. Or to think of it in other terms we have come to like candidates who think like we do, but if it comes down to it a hiring comitte for a fortune 500 company might not hire them. And I will freely admit that Bush is the most egregious example that I can think of. Of course the extremes always are easier to spot and always serve to illustrate points better than gradational differences.

 

Well, that

[mfwahl]

McCain takes the lead:

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNew...0080820?sp=true

He's seen as a stronger manager of the economy? Ok, we need to check the water supply; this is just lunacy. This is a guy who has admitted he doesn't know much about the economy and has said that our current economic problems are all in our heads. His former economic advisor, Phil Gramm, said we're in a "mental recession" and as a lawmaker and lobbyist was a major player in decreasing regulation in the housing and commodities markets which led to our current problems in the first place.

[ih8music]

He's seen as a stronger manager of the economy? Ok, we need to check the water supply; this is just lunacy. This is a guy who has admitted he doesn't know much about the economy and has said that our current economic problems are all in our heads. His former economic advisor, Phil Gramm, said we're in a "mental recession" and as a lawmaker and lobbyist was a major player in decreasing regulation in the housing and commodities markets which led to our current problems in the first place.

But Obama is just a celebrity like Britney Spears and Paris Hilton. Didn't you hear about that?

 

[Guest Jules]

He's seen as a stronger manager of the economy? Ok, we need to check the water supply; this is just lunacy.

OK, then how is Obama a stronger manager of the economy?

[mfwahl]

OK, then how is Obama a stronger manager of the economy?

I honestly can't tell you about any striking experience he has concernig the economy, but if the Bush administration has taught me anything it's that you elect more than just the president. Obama has economic advisors who are economists (albeit they're university-educated elitists). His energy plan has been praised by economists (wow!).

 

And while Phil Gramm is McCain's "former" economic advisor, he's still an unpaid volunteer. While he probably isn't still in contention for Secretary of the Treasury, he's still playing a role.

 

Then again, this poll was done by Zogby, and they haven't had the best track record this election cycle.

[Guest Jules]

I honestly can't tell you about any striking experience he has concernig the economy, but if the Bush administration has taught me anything it's that you elect more than just the president. Obama has economic advisors who are economists (albeit they're university-educated elitists). His energy plan has been praised by economists (wow!).

 

And while Phil Gramm is McCain's "former" economic advisor, he's still an unpaid volunteer. While he probably isn't still in contention for Secretary of the Treasury, he's still playing a role.

 

Then again, this poll was done by Zogby, and they haven't had the best track record this election cycle.

So, the "lunacy" comment was a little over the top?

[fatheadfred]

I honestly can't tell you about any striking experience he has concernig the economy, but if the Bush administration has taught me anything it's that you elect more than just the president. Obama has economic advisors who are economists (albeit they're university-educated elitists). His energy plan has been praised by economists (wow!).

 

And while Phil Gramm is McCain's "former" economic advisor, he's still an unpaid volunteer. While he probably isn't still in contention for Secretary of the Treasury, he's still playing a role.

 

Then again, this poll was done by Zogby, and they haven't had the best track record this election cycle.

 

I'm voting for what you are saying and hoping the Zogby is b.s. I noticed it was taken while Barry was on vacation, also.

[John Smith]

Well, that

[MrRain422]

OK, then how is Obama a stronger manager of the economy?

 

Because the policies that he supports actually make sense and show an understand of our country's current economic situation. McCain doesn't seem sure of what sort of economic policy he even wants, but when clear thoughts fight their way through, they seem to strongly resemble the Bush policies that are proven failures.

[LouieB]

I can't wait for this entire election to be over. I am fucking sick of seeing John McCain.

 

Has anyone else noticed that Barak is getting very gray lately??

 

LouieB

[Guest Jules]

Because the policies that he supports actually make sense and show an understand of our country's current economic situation.

I didn't intend to imply McCain has it figured out either, but most of the economic policy Obama has espoused scares the shit out of me. You talk about "proven failures", which is exactly what I would use to label Obama's tax plans, and the majority of his economic plan actually.

[Guest Jules]

I can't wait for this entire election to be over. I am fucking sick of seeing John McCain.

I've heard many say the same thing about Obama.

[ih8music]

Then again, this poll was done by Zogby, and they haven't had the best track record this election cycle.

not sure if it's been mentioned here yet, but the best place I've found for tracking the race - by state-by-state polls and electoral college implications, not ultimately meaningless national polls - is http://www.fivethirtyeight.com

 

...and thay also have the race tightening significantly over the past few weeks.

[mfwahl]

So, the "lunacy" comment was a little over the top?

No. Thinking about either one sitting down looking over the economic situation, I feel like I can trust Barack while McCain scares the shit out of me.

 

And yes, this was done while Barack was on vacation for a whole week, so I can see how these results happened. After a couple days, I just wanted anyone to hold me.

[John Smith]

I didn't intend to imply McCain has it figured out either, but most of the economic policy Obama has espoused scares the shit out of me. You talk about "proven failures", which is exactly what I would use to label Obama's tax plans, and the majority of his economic plan actually.

 

So please could you educate me on the specific plans that scare the crap out of you and why? Are these proven failures the very programs/policies that caused our economy to boom in the 1980