Election Year!!!

[quarter23cd]

They have re-defined what mainstream America is for political purposes, even as 70% of the country disagrees with their policies. That 70% is the part of the country that is now out of touch with the mainstream simply because for republicans they are the mainstream regardless of what the rest of the country thinks.

Right, but despite being so obviously the mainstream party representing "Real Americans^TM", don't forget that they are also somehow always the underdogs fighting the good fight against us marginal liberals who, evidently, are so astonishingly well organized that we control everything and it is a miracle that the GOP manages to get its message out to the people at all.

[Party @ the Moontower]

i question whether the people at the democratic convention were cheering as blindly. they hadn't just met their v.p. candidate four days ago, and there was no example set there for the idiotic meanness of guiliani, the empty and completely unknown "tough" charm of palin, blah blah blah. i'd hate to be at any convention, but i see a big difference between the two this year and i don't like it.

 

Not to mention that there was actually people, and lots of them @ the DNc. People from all parties. The RNC can't even fill the seats with their own party?

[bobbob1313]

For the children -- we can't afford $200 million to provide children who lack it health insurance when we're spending $2 billion a week in Iraq. C'mon people, where are your priorities?

 

Katrina. The pandering over Gustav was unavoidable of course, but repulsive nonetheless.

 

With the way our government is run, something tells me $200 million wouldn't do much for children with health insurance, unless you are talking about like, one free visit to the doctor, or something. THat number seems extremely low.

 

Gustav: Bush was damned if he did and damned if he didn't with that thing. Nothing he did would've pleased you. He couldn't ignore it, but he couldn't go down there or else it would be pandering. YOu know what the difference between Katrina and Gustav was? (I think, having lived in South Florida during one of the worst periods of hurricane activity in modern America I can comment on this) Gustav was a drop in the fucking bucket. It's a lot easier to get aide to people when you can physically get aide to them. Katrina had an entire city inundated, and infrastructure for miles around was crippled, meaning that the local government couldn't help, which is usually the first line of defense. IF you need to federal government to help immediately, it won't happen because of the beauracracy. Come on.

 

The rest of that stuff is going to need some links for me to buy it, since I've never heard stuff about any of it.

 

• cheney leading multiple 'plane attacking building' military training scenarios as the attacks happened.
  
• repeated warnings of airplane attacks -- how many? 52?
  
• remotely piloted attacks on buildings has long been under military consideration
  
• why did Pakistani intelligence give Mohammed Atta $100,000?
  
• why are so many of the terrorists still alive?
  

 

Energy policy written in secret by oil companies. Stonewalled any efforts to encourage dev't of alternative methods/sources (while giving billions in handouts to oil companies).

 

I hate having to defend Bush, there's plenty to rip him on that actually happened that you don't have to make stretches and leaps in logic to justify hating him.

 

Right, but despite being so obviously the mainstream party representing "Real Americans^TM", don't forget that they are also somehow always the underdogs fighting the good fight against us marginal liberals who, evidently, are so astonishingly well organized that we control everything and it is a miracle that the GOP manages to get its message out to the people at all.

 

Meanwhile, democrats have an inferiority complex that constantly keeps them in a fight against the "man", even though they have half of the power in this country.

 

Both parties have manufactured images, and both parties images are bullshit.

[Party @ the Moontower]

That speech was nothing short of appalling. I could give you a grocery list of things I disagree with Republicans about, but the sick feeling in the pit of my stomach stems mainly from one thing--Sarah Palin and her cohorts putting down Obama's work as a community organizer. Obama and Biden have never belittled McCain's service to his country; in fact, they have publicly praised it, despite their disagreements. When will Republicans understand that serving one's country does not necessarily mean strapping on a gun and marching off to war?

 

 

Ecaxtly!We are only proud of our kids if they serve us well in the military??That's one thing I got from Palin last night. I'm so happy for your 19 year old going off to Iraq, he has so much experince for such things.Most of the younger ones come back in a body bag, try suicide, have years, if not a lifetime of PTSD...great.

[bobbob1313]

Most?

[kimcatch22]

Most of the younger ones come back in a body bag, try suicide, have years, if not a lifetime of PTSD...great.

Can I see some data to back this up?

[Party @ the Moontower]

fact check

 

Attacks, praise stretch truth at GOP convention

 

_{By JIM KUHNHENN, Associated Press Writer}

_{Wed Sep 3, 11:48 PM ET}

 

ST. PAUL, Minn. - Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

 

Some examples:

 

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

 

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

 

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform

[IRememberDBoon]

Palin sucks

[John Smith]

i've never thought of paying for themselves as a justification for tax cuts. i simply believe that government is too big and too wasteful and confiscates too much of the wealth of the citizens and therefore needs to be curtailed.

 

 

with what do you credit the economic growth of the 1980's?

 

 

agreed. however, i only have one god and he/she/it is not a republican.

 

 

without going into each item on your laundry list of offenses, i agree, politicians have a tendency to corrupt.

 

Point1 OK YOU don't view that as a justification, but the mainstream conservative doctrine does. If the second part of your statement is accurate then you should not be voting for republicans who grow the gevernment at every opportunity and who spend much more than they take in thus in essence they tax like crazy only the tax increases for their spending do not occur until they have moved on and left a collasal mess for whomever follows them to clean up.

 

Point 2, the 1980's are a combination of factors including but not limited to: massive foreign investment in the US, federal spending to save companies such as Chrysler, re-tooling and re-engineering of the American manufacturing process which had largely gone unchanged since the 1940's and massive government spending on defense programs. It can also be partially attributed to emrging markets and more compnanies expanding globally. The very nature of business changed in the 1980's in America. It most certainly was not a product of the tax cuts. In fact the first growth of the 80's (double digit inflation and interest rates through his first three years) did not occur until late 1983 or early 1984 after congress passed a tax increase.

 

Point 3 - OK so YOU are one of those who do not worship Reagan or Bush, though they bring up Reagan at every opportunity inspite of the corruption (Iran Contra, negotiating with terrorists, military contractor malfeasance etc...) associated with his administraion.

 

Point 4 - No adminsitration that I can think of in the history of our nation has had a laundry list like the Bush adminsitration, not even Grant's or Hoovers. Both known for incompetance and/or corruption.

 

Another battle cry of conservatives that they will not acknowledge is wrong is that

[Party @ the Moontower]

Whether you agree with him or not (for the record, more often than not, I do), you have to give him credit for taking the time to express his opinion, rather than just jump on occasionally to snarkily remark that nope, after x number of pages, he's still not convinced.

 

Ummm..I agree

[embiggen]

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

 

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

 

indeed. the state still received the federal funds for this bridge and the road to the bridge is currently under construction.

 

In August 2007, Alaska's DOT stated that it was "leaning" toward alternative ferry options, citing bridge costs, despite having already received the funds from the federal government.

 

The project was canceled in 2007 by its supporter Alaska Governor Sarah Palin after Congress forced the funds to be used elsewhere:

 

"Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer. Despite the work of our congressional delegation, we are about $329 million short of full funding for the bridge project, and it

[viatroy]

With the way our government is run, something tells me $200 million wouldn't do much for children with health insurance, unless you are talking about like, one free visit to the doctor, or something. THat number seems extremely low.

 

 

The rest of that stuff is going to need some links for me to buy it, since I've never heard stuff about any of it.

 

 

You're right, I misspoke. $35 billion for 5 years child health coverage. Approx. 3-4 months of Iraq spending.

 

As to the other stuff, I've provided lots of info links on these issues before. That's what I mean by drinking the koolaid. There is a ton of info seriously questioning the official story, and while it is voluminous and easy to find, you'll have to consider that there are viable news sources other than Yahoo news and the networks. More than 1/3 of Americas still believe the 9/11 story is a coverup of either US complicity or intelligence failure.

[kwall]

Point1 OK YOU don't view that as a justification, but the mainstream conservative doctrine does.

i've never read the "mainstream conservative doctrine", so i guess i'll take your word on this.

 

If the second part of your statement is accurate then you should not be voting for republicans . . .

i'll overlook your repeated implication that i may be lying and just ask, who should i be voting for?

 

Another battle cry of conservatives that they will not acknowledge is wrong is that

[Party @ the Moontower]

liberals never see conservative substance.

 

Prove your side, just try a little. One liners and liberal bashing=nothing. It's all I saw @ the RNC last night. Issues?

[Guest Jules]

I

[Central Scrutinizer]

One of my best friends is a volunteer for the Obama campaign in Atlanta. Oh yeah, and she had voted Republican in every election since she was 18.

My senior HS daughter is interning with the campaign. She's considering political science and I told her, regardless of who you consider, this experience comes around only once every four years. She is barreling into it, so it's good to see. I've worked hard in the last several elections (was a pollster for my first few), but I just don't have the commitment to one candidate or cause this time around.

[kwall]

Prove your side, just try a little.

lay out "my side" as you see it and i'll try to defend it.

[fatheadfred]

.

 

For the record, I thought her speech was great.

 

For the record, I though her speech was full of GOP cliche.

 

Fear

Family

Faith

Fighting

Fucking, oops, an accident

[Central Scrutinizer]

I finally figured it out. McCain picked "Gidget."

 

Actually, McCain looks like Gidget's father on the TV series back in the day.

[Guest Jules]

For the record, I though her speech was full of GOP cliche.

fair enough

[kwall]

One liners and liberal bashing=nothing.

 

Actually, McCain looks like Gidget's father on the TV series back in the day.

[John Smith]

i've never read the "mainstream conservative doctrine", so i guess i'll take your word on this.

 

 

i'll overlook your repeated implication that i may be lying and just ask, who should i be voting for?

 

 

must be another chapter in that "mainstream conservative doctrine" that i don't agree with.

 

1 & 3 apparently you don't listen to your leaders and your punditry

 

I never implied that you are lying. I'm saying that if you truely believe in controling wasteful government and that is a major factor for you, then you shoudl not be voting republican. Vote who you wannt to vote for, but to be consistent with your personal views, the republicans are not the ones who fit this parameter in any way shape or form, except of course in their rhetoric at camapign time.

[kwall]

1 & 3 apparently you don't listen to your leaders and your punditry

i'm curious - who do you think my leaders are?

[Winston Legthigh]

lay out "my side" as you see it and i'll try to defend it.

What is this, Battleship?

[Wendy]

To date, I haven