Isn't it time for a new election thread?!

[LouieB]

Well I guess the last post certainly confirmed I can't spell worth a damn.....Barack it is.... The C is silent I suppose....

 

Let's see.... more than one band has objected to McCain using their songs as part of campaign events, Wilco has played Obama campaign events, other musicians (Springsteen, MMJ, Andrew Bird, etc.) have done benefits for Obama; politics and bands are connected even if the fans think they aren't or shouldn't be.

 

We had these arguments here four years ago and I figured, okay let's fan this flame one more time before it goes out completely. Politics and music ARE somewhat intertwined at certain times and places even if someone like Jules doesn't get it. Sorry you don't get it, but I suppose you had to be there.

 

LouieB

[embiggen]

didn't someone post a link to a craig's list add requesting a Palin look-a-like?

[Guest Jules]

brilliant.

[Sir Stewart]

Some afternoon DJs here acted out that script (well, part of it) the other day. Sounds like a winner.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

some people associate their music with their political views. my mom did that for awhile & she's about 8 years older then lou, so maybe the two were more entwined as they were coming up?

 

 

So...if someone is a fan of Bruce Springsteen, Wilco, Bob Dylan, Alejandro Escovedo, etc. they are required to think, eat and act in a certain way.

 

Thanks for the official ruling.

[Sir Stewart]

Jesus, she said "some people associate their music with their political views." You should take that statement back, Crow.

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Well I guess the last post certainly confirmed I can't spell worth a damn.....Barack it is.... The C is silent I suppose....

 

Let's see.... more than one band has objected to McCain using their songs as part of campaign events, Wilco has played Obama campaign events, other musicians (Springsteen, MMJ, Andrew Bird, etc.) have done benefits for Obama; politics and bands are connected even if the fans think they aren't or shouldn't be.

 

We had these arguments here four years ago and I figured, okay let's fan this flame one more time before it goes out completely. Politics and music ARE somewhat intertwined at certain times and places even if someone like Jules doesn't get it. Sorry you don't get it, but I suppose you had to be there.

 

LouieB

 

 

Polite and condescenging at the same time!!!

 

[Sweet Papa Crimbo]

Jesus, she said "some people associate their music with their political views." You should take that statement back, Crow.

 

 

Just screwing with you guys...

 

 

[Guest Jules]

Well I guess the last post certainly confirmed I can't spell worth a damn.....Barack it is.... The C is silent I suppose....

 

Let's see.... more than one band has objected to McCain using their songs as part of campaign events, Wilco has played Obama campaign events, other musicians (Springsteen, MMJ, Andrew Bird, etc.) have done benefits for Obama; politics and bands are connected even if the fans think they aren't or shouldn't be.

 

We had these arguments here four years ago and I figured, okay let's fan this flame one more time before it goes out completely. Politics and music ARE somewhat intertwined at certain times and places even if someone like Jules doesn't get it. Sorry you don't get it, but I suppose you had to be there.

 

LouieB

Had to be where? I still don't know what you're talking about. I like all of the bands/artists you mentioned above, and I am not voting for Obama.

[mountain bed]

Deadheads 4 McCain

"reported"

 

Seriously though, I'm sure they're out there. I just don't know any.

[Guest Jules]

"someone like Jules"

 

I like this.

[JUDE]

Well I guess the last post certainly confirmed I can't spell worth a damn.....Barack it is.... The C is silent I suppose....

 

Let's see.... more than one band has objected to McCain using their songs as part of campaign events, Wilco has played Obama campaign events, other musicians (Springsteen, MMJ, Andrew Bird, etc.) have done benefits for Obama; politics and bands are connected even if the fans think they aren't or shouldn't be.

 

We had these arguments here four years ago and I figured, okay let's fan this flame one more time before it goes out completely. Politics and music ARE somewhat intertwined at certain times and places even if someone like Jules doesn't get it. Sorry you don't get it, but I suppose you had to be there.

 

LouieB

 

I don

[solace]

I don't want to speak for Jules but I'm pretty sure he "gets it"; he just doesn't accept your premise. It's one thing for an artist to support a certain ideology and candidate and let it influence their art, in Wilco's case music. It is completely different to expect all fans of that artist's music to embrace, with the fervor you seem to expect, all of those same ideologies.

 

I find it absurd to expect that just because you may like certain music, you must act, vote or behave in a predefined manor. I like Wilco, the Clash, Billy Bragg, Steve Earl, and a host of other musicians who could be considered anti-Republican and I try to take their views as expressed lyrically into consideration in my daily life to a certain extent, but I'm not a blind follower. By your rational, I should be burning all of my cd's/albums/etc. from these artists because their political beliefs aren't in perfect alignment with my own. That makes no sense to me.

while i disagree with Lou's assessment SOMEWHAT...

 

i think i can safely say that some people have more emotional and personal attachment to music than others, which often means that you put yourself in the shoes of the writer/singer when listening to music. like, and call me condescending for this comment, fine, but i can't imagine someone listening to Lennon's 'Imagine' and truly absorbing the words and meaning, while having a world view that is almost completely the opposite of what Lennon was saying (not saying you or Jules love Imagine, or have a completely opposite world view, even if you lean Republican, just speaking in general terms).

 

now does that mean Jude or Jules are any less emotionally attached to say Wilco, The Clash, etc. than those who support Obama? no, it's just a different connection, but a valid one to mention at that.

 

that said... this is a completely honest question... do you on the right not find it a bit weird/odd at just how few decent musical artists there are who lean conservative? i do. any thoughts as to why that is?

[Good Old Neon]

By your rational, I should be donating all of my cd

[renic]

So...if someone is a fan of Bruce Springsteen, Wilco, Bob Dylan, Alejandro Escovedo, etc. they are required to think, eat and act in a certain way.

 

Thanks for the official ruling.

 

hey i wasn't talking about me, i was explaining something to jules. in no way did i say it was my personal belief. i don't think that way & never said i did so take it somewhere else.

[Guest Jules]

i think i can safely say that some people have more emotional and personal attachment to music than others, which often means that you put yourself in the shoes of the writer/singer when listening to music.

 

now does that mean Jude or Jules are any less emotionally attached to say Wilco, The Clash, etc. than those who support Obama? no, it's just a different connection, but a valid one to mention at that.

 

that said... this is a completely honest question... do you on the right not find it a bit weird/odd at just how few decent musical artists there are who lean conservative? i do. any thoughts as to why that is?

I still don't see how the "connection" to the music is any different if you do/don't agree with the artist politically. I remember during the Residency Jeff mentioned Obama had won Wisconsin or something. I didn't care. Then they went on to play another song.

 

As for your last question, it is a valid one. I guess I'll just have to take Kid Rock and Ted Nugent for now.

[solace]

I still don't see how the "connection" to the music is any different if you do/don't agree with the artist politically. I remember during the Residency Jeff mentioned Obama had won Wisconsin or something. I didn't care. Then they went on to play another song.

you don't see how it's different?

 

if you're listening to a misogynistic band (let's take Motley Crue for example, whom i'll admit i loved in the 80's, when i was young and impressionable), yet you're a staunch advocate against such views, i'd say it makes it harder to connect to a band's lyrics and message... no?

 

not saying you have to agree with every single view a band or musician you like, but you can see that it's easier to make a deeper connection to someone's words to which you greatly agree with their outlook on life, worldview, etc. than someone who sees the world quite a bit differently?

 

doesn't make one better than the other, just explaining it on my end

[Doug C]

I'll chime in on the music = politics debate. It is logical that a person's political views can draw them to a certain type of music but it is just as logical that someone's musical tastes can be apolitical even though they themselves are not apolitical. Like anything else, if your music forms a well-pleated braid with your politics, then you are going to feel as though this synchronicity is omni-present. If your music and politics resemble that picture of Tim Burton someone posted

somewhere, then you feel as though expecting everyone to link them is odd. Seems obvious to me...

 

I post waaaay too much at the Farrar board. Since his lyrics have taken a clearly anti-Bush, 'liberal' political turn, there are long time Jay fans that are unhappy with the 2 most recent Son Volt albums. The 'conservatives' at jf.net are clearly in the minority but are very vocal. Some don't really listen to Okemah... and The Search and long for the 'pre-political' songs. I'd venture to say that this situation could apply here. I'd bet that if Jeff lyrics were more overtly politically 'liberal', then some, not all, of the politically 'conservative' fans would like the songs less. That is the difference. Wilco lyrics do not include lines anything similar to those of Jet Pilot or The Picture, etc. I think that is why people that disagree with Jeff politically can still dig his excellent music. They don't have to sing/hear lyrics like "Jet pilot flown away, got a passing grade, Made it to the world stage, A hemisphere away, death is on display The sins would never wash away" to enjoy Wilco.

 

Not trying to start an argument, simply for what it's worth...

[uncool2pillow]

that said... this is a completely honest question... do you on the right not find it a bit weird/odd at just how few decent musical artists there are who lean conservative? i do. any thoughts as to why that is?

Artistic or musical talent is completely separate from political thinking. True, many musicians write songs about politics, but just because they write brilliant songs doesn't mean they're right -- or wrong for that matter -- about their politics. Peggy Noonan was/is a great speechwriter (you may disagree, but many liberals would agree), does that mean liberals should agree with what she writes? No. John Lennon is a brilliant songwriter. When I listen to "Imagine", though, it's a little like dreaming about unicorns, rainbows, and puppy dogs; not dreaming about something that's even remotely possible. Did Lennon himself even invest a lot in the lyrics of that song? I reminded of one of my favorite Elvis Costello lyrics aimed squarely at John Lennon and Roger Waters:

 

"Was it a millionaire who said 'imagine no possessions'?

A poor little schoolboy who said 'we don't need no lessons'?"

[mountain bed]

Hey, we were talking about decent musical artists.

 

I think (in general) rock/folk musicians are more liberal, and country musicians are more conservative. But I really couldn't care less what their political leanings are.

 

edit: the first sentence was in response to Jules re: Nuge and Kid Rock

[JUDE]

that said... this is a completely honest question... do you on the right not find it a bit weird/odd at just how few decent musical artists there are who lean conservative? i do. any thoughts as to why that is?

 

 

I think it's a combination of the "artistic left brain" thing and a lifestyle/social surroundings. For the most part artists do it to express themselves, very few do it to become rich, with the exception of Kiss and Motley Crue (we can argue artistic value at another time). That is why they gravitate more to the left IMO.

 

Edit: I also don't find Wilco to be overtly political in particular.

[solace]

John Lennon is a brilliant songwriter. When I listen to "Imagine", though, it's a little like dreaming about unicorns, rainbows, and puppy dogs; not dreaming about something that's even remotely possible. Did Lennon himself even invest a lot in the lyrics of that song?

see... and no offense, but to write off what Lennon sings about in 'Imagine' as the same as 'rainbows and puppy dogs' tells me a lot...

 

do i think it's "even remotely possible"... anything is possible. is it maybe naive and far fetched? sure... but why can't one still hope/wish for something like that without being considered naive? maybe i'm not cynical enough... i dunno. i don't see what Lennon talks about in 'Imagine' as any more far fetched than a good portion of the Bible, but i'm not gonna say that it's all fairy tales and lies.

 

i wasn't saying anything about musicians being more enlighted, i just asked why the phenomenon occurred.

[LouieB]

Clearly because someone likes a band or singer doesn't mean they have to do everything the same as that band, that's just plain silly. But generally speaking, I would find it hard to listen to too much of an artist (frankly I would not listen to or buy Ted Nuggent's albums ever....but that's me I would never buy Kid Rock either, but that's because he is sort of a jerk and not every good as far as I am concerned).

 

There is a reason that bands keep objecting to McCain using their material at his events, etc., and it's because they don't support him and they don't want to be associated with him in any way. Wilco is clearly and definitely in Obama's camp and if one is particularly uncomfortable with Obama I would think that listening to them would eventually not be something you would want to do, but again, that is just me. If an artist (any kind of artist) is significantly in another political camp it does make me uneasy at certain points and certainly in the case of a musician I really like, I would stop supporting them after awhile.

 

None of this is a about some sort of narrow ideology, it is about a general political tact. It is even turning out that some country artists (Ralph Stanley for example that I know of) are coming out in favor of Obama.

 

In point of fact, even though I love Patti Smith, I found (and find) her ongoing support of Ralph Nader kind of creepy. Not because I don't think Ralph has good positions on stuff, but because s (and last time out) defeating the Bushies was and is too important to keep pushing a non-winning third party candidate who has little relevance.

 

I clearly admit that my feelings on this are sort of "old fashioned". Music and the people who played it used to take clear political positions and their fans more often than not bought into them. John Lennon wanted to be remembered as a peacenik, rather than a Beatle. That says something. Imagine is NOT simply about unicorns. When people want to be inspired to a higher ideal, they sing this song and it makes them feel better, because it is clearly about something, not about nothing.

 

LouieB

[uncool2pillow]

see... and no offense, but to write off what Lennon sings about in 'Imagine' as the same as 'rainbows and puppy dogs' tells me a lot...

 

do i think it's "even remotely possible"... anything is possible. is it maybe naive and far fetched? sure... but why can't one still hope/wish for something like that without being considered naive? maybe i'm not cynical enough... i dunno. i don't see what Lennon talks about in 'Imagine' as any more far fetched than a good portion of the Bible, but i'm not gonna say that it's all fairy tales and lies.

 

i wasn't saying anything about musicians being more enlighted, i just asked why the phenomenon occurred.

No offense taken. My question, if Lennon really believed in these words, what, specifically, did he do to bring it about besides write songs and maybe a benefit show here or there? He lived in a cozy condo at the Dakota, he seemed pretty happy with his possessions. Sean and Yoko (not the poor, unwashed masses) continue to profit from the wealth his estate created. Even Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are turning their fortunes over for philanthropic purposes. They are capitalists who don't want to "Imagine no possessions".

 

I guess my point is that you and millions of other fans of that song put more meaning into it than the writer himself possibly could have to live the way he lived. I don't doubt your sincerity, but I love it when my stepbrother-in-law blasts his Lennon CDs while cruising around in his Escalade.

[Winston Legthigh]

I don't really consider Wilco a political band anyway... Sure they endorse Obama, but I don't hear a political agenda in their music.

 

I'd be more surprised to discover a conservative who loves Rage Against the Machine, or a person who isn't deaf that likes the sound of Jay Farrar's voice.