Isn't it time for a new election thread?!

[John Smith]

David Brooks has apretty good column today, very interesting...

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/opinion/...tml?ref=opinion

 

A passage:

 

In 1976, in a close election, Gerald Ford won the entire West Coast along with northeastern states like New Jersey, Connecticut, Vermont and Maine. In 1984, Reagan won every state but Minnesota.

 

But over the past few decades, the Republican Party has driven away people who live in cities, in highly educated regions and on the coasts. This expulsion has had many causes. But the big one is this: Republican political tacticians decided to mobilize their coalition with a form of social class warfare. Democrats kept nominating coastal pointy-heads like Michael Dukakis so Republicans attacked coastal pointy-heads.

 

Over the past 15 years, the same argument has been heard from a thousand politicians and a hundred television and talk-radio jocks. The nation is divided between the wholesome Joe Sixpacks in the heartland and the oversophisticated, overeducated, oversecularized denizens of the coasts.

 

What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. The liberals had coastal condescension, so the conservatives developed their own anti-elitism, with mirror-image categories and mirror-image resentments, but with the same corrosive effect.

 

Republicans developed their own leadership style. If Democratic leaders prized deliberation and self-examination, then Republicans would govern from the gut.

[JUDE]

How eaxctly is the Obama camp guilty of getting the masses frothy when Palin gets out there and on every stop, be it a campaign stop or a fox interview, and accuses Obam of palling around with terrorists, and of not being an American like her. Please do explain the responsibility on the Obama side of the coin.

 

 

Huh, you seem pretty frothy and you seem to be on the Obama side of the coin.

 

My point is in this campaign both parties are blaming each other for the exact same problems that this country faces, economic meltdown, etc. While neither accepts even the remotest responsibility for any of it.

 

I'm sure this is where you'll come back and remind me how when Clinton left office everyone was financially secure, Unicorns weren't on the endangered species list and this all falls directly on the shoulders of the Republican Party and W. Bush.

[Good Old Neon]

The irony in all of this, is that the same group of impotent knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers on repulsive parade in the recent spate of videos, are the same morons who elected Bush, twice

[Spawn's dad]

That's such an absolute load of shit. As a country it was the ineptitude of the left to put together a strategy to take the white house

against a total putz. Twice. It wasn't some minority of 'knuckle draggers' that put Bush back in the white house. Kerry's campaign was a joke, and lord knows what kind of shape we'd be in if he actually managed to eek out a win. He lost to a total freaking douche, which makes him?

[MrRain422]

Huh, you seem pretty frothy and you seem to be on the Obama side of the coin.

 

My point is in this campaign both parties are blaming each other for the exact same problems that this country faces, economic meltdown, etc. While neither accepts even the remotest responsibility for any of it.

 

That's a different issue. Yes, both sides are framing the other's positions in a way that makes them seem responsible for our problems -- this is to be expected, and we can evaluate these arguments on their merits.

 

Only one campaign is making suggestions that the other supports terrorism.

[JUDE]

The irony in all of this, is that the same group of impotent knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers on repulsive parade in the recent spate of videos, are the same morons who elected Bush, twice

[Tweedling]

I think that if McCain gets elected you'll see some violence in the streets. I highly doubt that much will errupt with an Obama win.

 

Edie, the people in the video do not mirror my feelings. I do not think Obama is a terrorist. (However, I might have yelled get a job):/ I haven't been able to keep up with all the posts, so this might have already been touched on, but why we're there protesters at a McCain talk?

[John Smith]

Huh, you seem pretty frothy and you seem to be on the Obama side of the coin.

 

My point is in this campaign both parties are blaming each other for the exact same problems that this country faces, economic meltdown, etc. While neither accepts even the remotest responsibility for any of it.

 

I'm sure this is where you'll come back and remind me how when Clinton left office everyone was financially secure, Unicorns weren't on the endangered species list and this all falls directly on the shoulders of the Republican Party and W. Bush.

 

It just seemd like your original answert was in response to the "he's a terrorist" allegations being tossed out there by the McCain camp. This response is in no way shape or form related to the original, at least as far as I can see.

 

Some douchebag asked McCain if once he became presiednt if he woudl investigate and bring to jsutice those responsible for the current financial mess. Of course McCain said yes, though I seriously doubt he would go after the deregualtors especially as he is stocking his cabinet andwhatnot with the very people who caused the problem.

 

Oh for "BALANCE" i'm sure the democrats had soemthing to do with eneacting the republican dream financial system.

[JUDE]

That's a different issue. Yes, both sides are framing the other's positions in a way that makes them seem responsible for our problems -- this is to be expected, and we can evaluate these arguments on their merits.

 

Only one campaign is making suggestions that the other supports terrorism.

 

 

You know if I was a registered Republican and supported McCain, I might possibly care about who may be the worst mudslinger in this campaign. You can talk until you are blue in the face and I will still find Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin to be equally douchey.

[Good Old Neon]

That's such an absolute load of shit. As a country it was the ineptitude of the left to put together a strategy to take the white house

against a total putz. Twice. It wasn't some minority of 'knuckle draggers' that put Bush back in the white house. Kerry's campaign was a joke, and lord knows what kind of shape we'd be in if he actually managed to eek out a win. He lost to a total freaking douche, which makes him?

 

I disagree

[Good Old Neon]

(However, I might have yelled get a job)

 

Why

[Spawn's dad]

The problem is the system. Kerry would have been every bit Bush's equal at being a train wreck. He might have fucked up different things,

but he sure would have fucked up as many things.

 

You're the kind of guy who gets people with different views to become completely embedded in them. Congratulations on that

righteous indignation. I'm sure it'll really help sway the vote.

[moxiebean]

But I wonder, the "base" seems so rabid, so angry and about stupid shit...he's a muslim, he's a terrorist, he's a socialist (apparently he has proposed all the buyouts) etc... they are so unhinged and so rabid that When you couple their anger with the bad economy (which many of them are blaming directly on Obama already) there is such palpable anger in the air that I wonder if it could lead to extreme violence after the elections.

I have to admit I've been worried about Obama's safety ever since the primaries. Not from the "base" but from those fringe folks that are out there who would never accept a person of color as president.

 

And I really really really hope I'm wrong about this.

[John Smith]

I think that if McCain gets elected you'll see some violence in the streets. I highly doubt that much will errupt with an Obama win.

 

Edie, the people in the video do not mirror my feelings. I do not think Obama is a terrorist. (However, I might have yelled get a job):/ I haven't been able to keep up with all the posts, so this might have already been touched on, but why we're there protesters at a McCain talk?

 

I found the "get a job" comments funny. DO these people, who seem to have free time in the middle of the day to go to a rally, find it odd that students and others can also make free time to go and protest the rally?

[JUDE]

Some douchebag asked McCain if once he became presiednt if he woudl investigate and bring to jsutice those responsible for the current financial mess. Of course McCain said yes, though I seriously doubt he would go after the deregualtors especially as he is stocking his cabinet andwhatnot with the very people who caused the problem.

 

I've got a crazy idea, but maybe this douchebag was reffering to those who actually perpetrated crimes, i.e. committed fraud, and was hoping McCain would actually support the use of current laws to prosecute these people rather than fall back on the old "we will enact new legislation to take care of this problem" theory. Of course this would be off base because this entire mess is entirely the fault of deregulation and the Republican party.

 

 

Oh for "BALANCE" i'm sure the democrats had soemthing to do with eneacting the republican dream financial system.

 

You never fail to deliver.

[Good Old Neon]

I found the "get a job" comments funny. DO these people, who seem to have free time in the middle of the day to go to a rally, find it odd that students and others can also make free time to go and protest the rally?

 

Self-reflective insightfulness is obviously not at the top of or near the top or maybe just doesn

[John Smith]

The problem is the system. Kerry would have been every bit Bush's equal at being a train wreck. He might have fucked up different things,

but he sure would have fucked up as many things.

 

You're the kind of guy who gets people with different views to become completely embedded in them. Congratulations on that

righteous indignation. I'm sure it'll really help sway the vote.

 

You are assuming that Kerry would have continued to screw things up as Bush did. Really you and I have no clue as to what never happened.

 

 

I've got a crazy idea, but maybe this douchebag was reffering to those who actually perpetrated crimes, i.e. committed fraud, and was hoping McCain would actually support the use of current laws to prosecute these people rather than fall back on the old "we will enact new legislation to take care of this problem" theory. Of course this would be off base because this entire mess is entirely the fault of deregulation and the Republican party.

 

 

You never fail to deliver.

 

You be the judge of what was being talked about...

 

McCains Answer: I will. And it is already a matter of record that members, Democrat members of Congress fought against reform and it is a matter of record and hearings that they said everything was fine. Senator Obama a year ago said that these kinds of subprime loans are, quote, fine with him. And the fact is that the same people that are now claiming credit for this rescue are the same ones that were willing co-conspirators in causing this problem that it is. And you know their names. And you will know more of their names. Congressman Barney Frank and Senator Chris Dodd are two of them.

 

 

Me again...was there fraud comitted by the bankers/financial investment types? Or were they simply wrkign within the rules and the rules did nto have any safeguards anymore because of deregualtion? When they sell financial products the products I believe have to be vetted by the feds before they can market them. I may be wrong on that one, but I don't believe so. Fraud and having everything go to shit at once are two majorly different things.

[Spawn's dad]

You are assuming that Kerry would have continued to screw things up as Bush did. Really you and I have no clue as to what never happened.

 

No, actually I'm pointing out that we have no clue what would have happened, but based on the fact that the guy couldn't figure

out how to beat the jackass we got stuck with it doesn't really appear he would have done a much better job.

[JUDE]

Self-reflective insightfulness is obviously not at the top of or near the top or maybe just doesn

[MrRain422]

You know if I was a registered Republican and supported McCain, I might possibly care about who may be the worst mudslinger in this campaign. You can talk until you are blue in the face and I will still find Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin to be equally douchey.

 

What specific charges have Obama or Biden made do you think are equally douchy to the terrorist sympathizer charge?

[John Smith]

The problem is the system. Kerry would have been every bit Bush's equal at being a train wreck. He might have fucked up different things, but he sure would have fucked up as many things.

 

Pretty definative, absolute statement there.

 

No, actually I'm pointing out that we have no clue what would have happened, but based on the fact that the guy couldn't figure out how to beat the jackass we got stuck with it doesn't really appear he would have done a much better job.

 

The two quotes don't really go together.

[JUDE]

Me again...was there fraud comitted by the bankers/financial investment types? Or were they simply wrkign within the rules and the rules did nto have any safeguards anymore because of deregualtion? When they sell financial products the products I believe have to be vetted by the feds before they can market them. I may be wrong on that one, but I don't believe so. Fraud and having everything go to shit at once are two majorly different things.

 

Are you serious? It's been well established that a huge number of these NINA (no income, no asset) and stated income loans are fraudulent. These financial professional, especially those who hold a license should be held to a higher standard. Don't try and push it off to just deregulation. The mortgage industry was a huge "nod, nod, wink, wink" system based on inflated values and cheap money for the last five years.

[Spawn's dad]

Actually they go together pretty fine. We don't know what would have happened, but the evidence doesn't

exist to think they would have been better.

 

Maybe you should go back to pontificating on the inevitable rioting that's going to occur.

[austrya]

Are you serious? It's been well established that a huge number of these NINA (no income, no asset) and stated income loans are fraudulent. These financial professional, especially those who hold a license should be held to a higher standard. Don't try and push it off to just deregulation. The mortgage industry was a huge "nod, nod, wink, wink" system based on inflated values and cheap money for the last five years.

 

I can vouch for that.

 

When a mortgage broker tries to get someone with a super high FICO score and a 20% down payment to go with an interest only loan with nothing down, there is a problem. It's called greed.

[Tweedling]

I'm still not certain what they were "protesting". If you're "protesting" something I paid money to attend I may yell "get a job" or maybe even "shut the fuck up"

 

Anyway, I love the phrase "get a job". It's kinda like when me and a friend yell, "hippies" to a bunch of "suits" standing on a street corner and "republicans" to a bunch of "granolas". Now that I think about it it's nothing like that......but it's still fun!