Isn't it time for a new election thread?!

[moxiebean]

being in the same room as

Then I guess McCain "palled around" with the North Vietnamese for years.

[Guest Jules]

Cool as a fucking cucumber - he's already proven himself more presidential than the current one has ever been.

must be the cigarettes.

[Sir Stewart]

"menthols"

[Good Old Neon]

And bringing it up is designed to make the leftists look like a bunch of frothing idiots, which incidentally it's succeeding at.

 

I apologize for allowing outrageous, intentionally deceitful lies in the context of a really fucking important, quite possibly, capital h Historical, election to piss me off

[Guest Jules]

"menthols"

Does he really smoke menthols? That's awesome.

[John Smith]

I love to ignore the air of superiority and reply to your crap anyway so here I go. I've not debated your points because I like to spread the blame around, I find it much easier to look at the parties involved and assign responsibility that way. Find where I said I found deregulation innocent in any of this.

 

As far as anecdotal, I guess since I'm a licensed real estate agent, own ten rental units and am an accountant for a construction design and engineering firm, the experience I have with this is meaningless.

 

OK please explain to me what Interest Only ARM's, Stated Income/No Asset loans and Negative Amortization loans were created for? I'd love to be educated by you.

 

Also, I would think that a guy as smart as yourself, with his finger on the pulse of the financial markets would have seen this coming and found a better way to secure his kids college funds of even a way to capitalize on this downturn.

 

 

So you are part of the fraud? I can only assume so since you obviously have sat in on closings that you seem to be saying today were based on fraudulently obtained loans. Or you witnessed it and did not report it? Or did you report it and are just waiting for someone to investigate? If you had a conscious and have not reported this I think you should do so now. Or perhaps your fellow realtor s told you about their fraud and you condoned it by not turning them in? Or perhaps you did not participate and profit from the fraud but learned of it through osmosis? I

[solace]

I think that Obama is not a terrorist and that those who think he is are idiots.

 

[solace]

Either way, the way to establish a third party is from the bottom up, not the top down. No third party will ever go anywhere if it focuses its resources on a Presidential election right off the bat (at least electorally -- I think a third party campaign, if waged effectively, can introduce certain issues into the race that might not otherwise make their way into the discourse, but the candidate of that party will still never win the election). The way to really grow a third party is to focus on local elections in places where they might have a chance, and then expanding out from there. In San Francisco, for example, it has essentially become a two party system between the Democrats and the Greens. From their successes there, the Greens can expand out further in the region and then eventually perhaps nationally.

 

spot on.

 

have said this forever.

[John Smith]

I guess not.

 

I've read that and it has been talked about for years. Including that the Alaskan oil would most likely end up in China or Korea once it gets pumped because those markets are so much closer to the source. I've also read that if every drop of suspected reserves were pumped out of Alaska it would fuel us for three months or three years (I can't remember which right now).

[Winston Legthigh]

You'd think that evangelists would see parallels between Saul's conversion to Paul and Ayers's conversion from terrorist to do-gooder.

[John Smith]

You'd think that evangelists would see parallels between Saul's conversion to Paul and Ayers's conversion from terrorist to do-gooder.

 

If he were an asssociate of McCain...yes.

[solace]

Anyway, I love the phrase "get a job". It's kinda like when me and a friend yell, "hippies" to a bunch of "suits" standing on a street corner and "republicans" to a bunch of "granolas". Now that I think about it it's nothing like that......but it's still fun!

 

do you realize how petty and childish it makes those people look though?

[JUDE]

So you are part of the fraud? I can only assume so since you obviously have sat in on closings that you seem to be saying today were based on fraudulently obtained loans. Or you witnessed it and did not report it? Or did you report it and are just waiting for someone to investigate? If you had a conscious and have not reported this I think you should do so now. Or perhaps your fellow realtor s told you about their fraud and you condoned it by not turning them in? Or perhaps you did not participate and profit from the fraud but learned of it through osmosis? I

[uncool2pillow]

You'd think that evangelists would see parallels between Saul's conversion to Paul and Ayers's conversion from terrorist to do-gooder.

To me, this is such a trivial issue that I don't pay it much mind. I do flip around radio stations a lot, though. I constantly hear Sean Hannity refer to Ayers as an "unrepentant" terrorist. I know he's an education professor now, but has he gone through a Saul --> Paul conversion including a full repentance? Just asking, don't know.

[John Smith]

Obama's gone off the deep end. McCain talks of bi-partisanship and then his rallies are, well, they are what they are. Here is what Obam said today in Ohio...

 

It's easy to rile up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States. The times are too serious. The challenges are too great. The American people aren't looking for someone who can divide this country -- they're looking for someone who will lead it. We're in a serious crisis -- now, more than ever, it is time to put country ahead of politics. Now, more than ever, it is time to bring change to Washington so that it works for the people of this country that we love.

 

I know my opponent is worried about his campaign. But that's not what I'm concerned about. I'm thinking about the Americans losing their jobs, and their homes, and their life savings. We can't afford four more years of the economic theory that says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else.

 

Me...what a spiteful bitter man hhe must be to say that, especially when you compare it to the well reasoned rhetoric coming from McCain & Co.

[bleedorange]

I tire of this and will just agree with you, I'm a simpleton, the entire economy has gone to shit solely because of the Republican Party and it's figurehead George W. Bush.

 

This is the only way.

 

BTW, I heard that Obama is the love child of Bernardine Dohrn and Saul Alinsky!

[ZenLunatic]

Both McCain and Obama will not fix the economy. It is doomed under their plans. But even still Obama is much better than McCain and there is no doubt he will win.

[Good Old Neon]

Palin is married to a former member of a separatist movement.

 

Founder Of Group Palin Courted Professed "Hatred For The American Government"; Cursed "Damn Flag"

 

By Greg Sargent - September 2, 2008, 6:10PM

 

The founder of the Alaska Independence Party -- a group that has been courted over the years by Sarah Palin, and one her husband was a member of for roughly seven years -- once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed the American flag as a "damn flag."

 

The AIP founder, Joe Vogler, made the comments in 1991, in an interview that's now housed at the Oral History Program in the Rasmuson Library at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.

 

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP.

"And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

 

At another point, Volger advocated renouncing allegiance to the United States. In the course of denouncing Federal regulation over land, he said:

 

"And then you get mad. And you say, the hell with them. And you renounce allegiance, and you pledge your efforts, your effects, your honor, your life to Alaska."

 

You can listen to audio of the relevant section of the Volger interview here. Bill Schneider, curator of oral history at the library, verified the authenticity of the interview and the quote to me a few moments ago.

 

Palin has courted the group over the years.

 

Three years after the controversial interview, in 1994, Palin attended the group's annual convention, according to witnesses who spoke to ABC News' Jake Tapper. The McCain campaign is disputing her presence there, but Tapper found two people to attest to it.

 

The McCain campaign today produced Palin's voting registration records, and said they proved she was never a member of the party.

 

But she has repeatedly reached out to the group. The McCain campaign has confirmed she visited the group's 2000 convention, and she addressed its convention this year, as an incumbent governor whose oath of office includes upholding the Constitution of the United States.

 

Palin's husband, Todd Palin, was a member of the party from 1995-2002 with a brief exception in 2000.

It's worth noting that Vogler isn't just some figure from ancient history. He is still being hailed on AIP's site this year, the same year Palin addressed the group's convention.

 

It's worth pondering how big a deal it would be if Obama had ever courted the support of a group whose head had said this kind of thing about America and her flag. Oh, wait...

 

source - http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmem...ed_hatred_f.php

 

Which is to say, John McCain is an America hating secessionist sympathizer and probably even maybe a terrorist.

[fatheadfred]

I liked this Daily Show bit last night - they showed the clip of McCain at the debate saying "I will find Bin Laden, because I know how to do it." Cut to Jon Stewart: "You know how to do it? When were you going to tell us, you dick!"

 

The Daily Show helps me maintain some sense of sanity. Thank you Jon.

[John Smith]

Point one, nice try labeling me as a criminal, I've seen underhanded deals yes and back door agreements but have never participated directly. Should I report them, maybe but I've seen how ineffectually our department of commerce's enforcement division is in these matters and decided to stay out of it. Also I know of more than one broker that has been visited by the FBI since January 1st, they are no longer licensed and are facing criminal fraud charges.

 

I tire of this and will just agree with you, I'm a simpleton, the entire economy has gone to shit solely because of the Republican Party and it's figurehead George W. Bush.

 

What does the code of ethics for realtors say about this? Does it say there are exceptions because you feel enforcement is ineffectual? If not then perhaps you are part of the problem you describe? I've refused to do client work because of less ethical breeches. Heck we did an audit and gave an unfavorable opinion which is unheard of. Why? Because we as a profession have a set of professional sandards to adhere to. Granted AA and others have breached those standards and paid the price, but the standards still remain and are actually tougher these days from the new standards on preparer penalties to the expensive pain in the ass Sarbanes Oxley.

 

Well you got me on the origins of those particular mortgages, so I guess evrything else I have to say is wrong, and Obama is the cause of all this mess, and if it raisn I'll blame him for that too.

 

 

This is the only way.

 

BTW, I heard that Obama is the love child of Bernardine Dohrn and Saul Alinsky!

 

I thought it was Barbara Steisand and George Soros.

[Guest Jules]

Obama's gone off the deep end. McCain talks of bi-partisanship and then his rallies are, well, they are what they are. Here is what Obam said today in Ohio...

 

It's easy to rile up a crowd by stoking anger and division. But that's not what we need right now in the United States. The times are too serious. The challenges are too great. The American people aren't looking for someone who can divide this country -- they're looking for someone who will lead it. We're in a serious crisis -- now, more than ever, it is time to put country ahead of politics. Now, more than ever, it is time to bring change to Washington so that it works for the people of this country that we love.

 

I know my opponent is worried about his campaign. But that's not what I'm concerned about. I'm thinking about the Americans losing their jobs, and their homes, and their life savings. We can't afford four more years of the economic theory that says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else.

 

Me...what a spiteful bitter man hhe must be to say that, especially when you compare it to the well reasoned rhetoric coming from McCain & Co.

[Good Old Neon]

I thought it was Barbara Steisand and George Soros.

 

See now that

[Moe_Syzlak]

"I just have to rely on the good judgment of the voters not to buy into these negative attack ads. Sooner or later, people are going to figure out if all you run is negative attack ads you don't have much of a vision for the future or you're not ready to articulate it." - John McCain, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, 2/21/2000

[Edie]

being in the same room as

 

So you have palled around with Jeff Tweedy then

 

As far as the campaign tacitly approving of the label of "terrorist" for Obama (and the underlying racism), this will likely backfire. IMHO, it will end up losing votes for McCain. I know two people (republicans) who are on the fence, and this has repulsed them -- and they are now pretty much in the Obama camp.

[mountain bed]

"I just have to rely on the good judgment of the voters not to buy into these negative attack ads. Sooner or later, people are going to figure out if all you run is negative attack ads you don't have much of a vision for the future or you're not ready to articulate it." - John McCain, The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, 2/21/2000

That's almost sig-worthy. Like I said a few hundred pages back, he of all people should know better.