Congrats to President-Elect OBAMA

[miss jayne]

oh my goodness gogo that is a living nightmare of a story...though I believe she is on self destruct mode at this point and her emotional sobriety seems very much at stake right now. My bet is exhaustion and rehab somewhat like Britney Spears

[quarter23cd]

Joe the Biden!

 

 

 

Palin could go a lot of different directions after this, but I think (hope, at least) that the White House is unlikely. She has already been singled out by countless sources as the single biggest drag on the GOP ticket. There is a small pocket of people who love her, but this doesn't even seem to make up a majority of her own party. It would imagine it would be hard for her to be taken seriously on a national scale. I really can't (or don't want to) imagine her making it out of the primaries if she chooses to run next time. Her political career very well could be toast if this thing turns into a landslide, though (as noted) she could very easily land in talk radio--or more likely, with a show on Fox News. (because on radio, nobody can hear you wink)

[lost highway]

Obama on the Bradley Effect:

 

"I don't think white voters have gotten the memo on this 'Bradley Effect'."

[kwall]

http://www.salon.com/comics/boll/2008/10/30/boll/index.html

did those guys also advocate sending income tax refund checks to people who don't pay income tax? that's where the charge of redistribution of wealth and socialism comes from. not from the tax rate alone.

[Spawn's dad]

"white voters"

 

[kwall]

typical

[moxiebean]

Something I read yesterday (I now have no idea where I saw it ) put forward this scenario:

 

Ted Stevens retains his Senate seat, despite being found guilty of corruption charges a week before the election (not likely, but possible).

 

He resigns after 11/4, forcing a special election for his seat.

 

Palin runs, and ends up in the Senate for the next four years, giving her all kinds of experience before her Presidential run!

Wow.

This scenario scares the crap out of me

[Sir Stewart]

For awhile this season I thought the Bradley Effect meant I'd get a big frog neck like Bill Bradley if I voted for Obama.

[Edie]

I just watched Sarah Palin give her stump rhetoric on live TV. Every time I listen to her, I am struck by how eagerly and simplistically she divides the country into Us and Them, and then frames our national discourse as a battle that must be won by destroying Them. There's something surreal about listening to her try to inspire confidence and enthusiasm by sowing division and fear. Worse, I feel that Palin is utterly, strangely (refreshingly?) transparent about how she, if elected, intends to leave me and my concerns behind, because I'm one of Them, and therefore not a true American, and therefore not a true constituent. In fact, I am more likely seen as a force that must be defeated by Real Americans, not won over.

 

Say what you will about Obama's slick infomercial, but at least the driving theme was one of working together, not turning against one another.

 

QFT

 

I think that if she runs in 2012 she would further break up the now more delicate symbiotic relationship that the social conservatives, security neocons and the fiscal conservative republicans have enjoyed in the last 30 years since Reagan.

[Duck-Billed Catechist]

did those guys also advocate sending income tax refund checks to people who don't pay income tax? that's where the charge of redistribution of wealth and socialism comes from. not from the tax rate alone.

Clinton did, as did Gerald Ford, and Reagan and (one assumes) every president in between. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earned_Income_Tax_Credit

The child tax credit also works that way for low income families.

 

Edit: Let me repeat...Ronnie freakin' Reagan! I'm having a grabber, here.

[quarter23cd]

For awhile this season I thought the Bradley Effect meant I'd get a big frog neck like Bill Bradley if I voted for Obama.

It doesn't?

[gogo]

Obama on the Bradley Effect:

 

"I don't think white voters have gotten the memo on this 'Bradley Effect'."

 

This may have been posted already:

Kids Pick Obama

 

The theory (one of them) behind the accuracy of this poll (the only time it's been wrong in the past 13 elections was 1992, Bush/Clinton/Perot) is that there is no Bradley Effect. Kids are more likely to reflect their parents' actual views, while the parents themselves might not be 100% up-front.

 

When my nephew was in kindergarten, his teacher polled the class on who they were supporting. 19 votes for Kerry, 1 for Bush, and the next day, that one kid's mother made a point of coming into the class to tell the teacher that no, their household was most certainly not supporting Bush.

[John Smith]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore.

 

Taken simplistically this sort of thing sells to the masses, howe3ver the wealthy and the not wealthy are not drinking the same beer, maybe for this pithy example but not in reality. The reality is that the wealthy in America are drinking a much better taxpayer beer than the poor. Take a look at the "bailout" for example. Stories now are circulating that the 70 billion in bonuses will be paid? With what are they being paid if these companies are in financial trouble? Or look at the notion that these financially troubled businesses are possibly going to be paying their dividends out of bailout funds? That littel example shows just one way that the welathy are drinking a better beer. AND there is no way they wpould leave the US and go to a better batr, because even as expats they still [pay us tax at US rates less a credit for taxes paid overseas. Besides for right wingers (and i'm not callin you a right winger) to make this argument is to make their whole USA USA USA chant irrelevant and phony.

 

I just watched Sarah Palin give her stump rhetoric on live TV. Every time I listen to her, I am struck by how eagerly and simplistically she divides the country into Us and Them, and then frames our national discourse as a battle that must be won by destroying Them. There's something surreal about listening to her try to inspire confidence and enthusiasm by sowing division and fear. Worse, I feel that Palin is utterly, strangely (refreshingly?) transparent about how she, if elected, intends to leave me and my concerns behind, because I'm one of Them, and therefore not a true American, and therefore not a true constituent. In fact, I am more likely seen as a force that must be defeated by Real Americans, not won over.

 

Say what you will about Obama's slick infomercial, but at least the driving theme was one of working together, not turning against one another.

 

She's talk radio 24/7> For the republicans to get back into the national scene they need to develop real platforms that appeal to more people and they need to cut the bull shit. Knowing that the bullshit is thei bread and butter I doubt they will change.

[gogo]

In other election news, not related to the presidential race:

 

http://www.noonprop8.com/

 

My mom got a lovely note in her mailbox last night, thanking her for having a No on 8 sign in her window. It was from a couple up the street, who've been together 24 years and were finally married in June. They've got three kids who go to school with my nieces and nephews. I'm totally disgusted by the Yes on 8 ads, I can't imagine what families like these must think when they see them.

[Spawn's dad]

I like my kid a lot, and he's smart and his friends and classmates are really good kids. That said, I couldn't really care

who they think should be president.

[jakobnicholas]

A very intersting opinion column in the Wall Street Journal. Here's the first few paragraphs...with link to full article.

 

 

Obama and the Politics of Crowds

The masses greeting the candidate on the trail are a sign of great unease.

 

By FOUAD AJAMI

 

There is something odd -- and dare I say novel -- in American politics about the crowds that have been greeting Barack Obama on his campaign trail. Hitherto, crowds have not been a prominent feature of American politics. We associate them with the temper of Third World societies. We think of places like Argentina and Egypt and Iran, of multitudes brought together by their zeal for a Peron or a Nasser or a Khomeini. In these kinds of societies, the crowd comes forth to affirm its faith in a redeemer: a man who would set the world right.

 

As the late Nobel laureate Elias Canetti observes in his great book, "Crowds and Power" (first published in 1960), the crowd is based on an illusion of equality: Its quest is for that moment when "distinctions are thrown off and all become equal. It is for the sake of this blessed moment, when no one is greater or better than another, that people become a crowd." These crowds, in the tens of thousands, who have been turning out for the Democratic standard-bearer in St. Louis and Denver and Portland, are a measure of American distress.

 

On the face of it, there is nothing overwhelmingly stirring about Sen. Obama. There is a cerebral quality to him, and an air of detachment. He has eloquence, but within bounds. After nearly two years on the trail, the audience can pretty much anticipate and recite his lines. The political genius of the man is that he is a blank slate. The devotees can project onto him what they wish. The coalition that has propelled his quest -- African-Americans and affluent white liberals -- has no economic coherence. But for the moment, there is the illusion of a common undertaking -- Canetti's feeling of equality within the crowd. The day after, the crowd will of course discover its own fissures. The affluent will have to pay for the programs promised the poor. The redistribution agenda that runs through Mr. Obama's vision is anathema to the Silicon Valley entrepreneurs and the hedge-fund managers now smitten with him. Their ethos is one of competition and the justice of the rewards that come with risk and effort. All this is shelved, as the devotees sustain the candidacy of a man whose public career has been a steady advocacy of reining in the market and organizing those who believe in entitlement and redistribution.

 

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122533157015082889.html

[Sir Stewart]

So he's the Helvetica of presidential candidates. Got it.

[EL the Famous]

I like my kid a lot, and he's smart and his friends and classmates are really good kids. That said, I couldn't really care

who they think should be president.

 

we are a house divided when it comes to the twins. when you ask each child who the next president will be:

 

owen: OBAMA!

 

logan: BATMAN!

 

i may have mentioned this earlier, we have never directly referred to obama to the kids at all. yet, owen can identify obama by picture, voice and even that seal he uses.

[ih8music]

I like my kid a lot, and he's smart and his friends and classmates are really good kids. That said, I couldn't really care

who they think should be president.

I guess it depends on how old your kids are. Mine are still very young, but if they were in their teens / HS age, I'd definitely be interested in hearing their perspective on things. Not that I'd necessarily agree with them (or consider their opinion to be well thought-out), but you never know. A bright & well-informed HS kid probably has a better grasp of what's going on in the world than a lot of adult voters out there.

[jff]

did those guys also advocate sending income tax refund checks to people who don't pay income tax? that's where the charge of redistribution of wealth and socialism comes from.

 

You're wrong. The socialist coments immediately and directly resulted from Obama saying "spread the wealth" to joe the plumber. It had nothing to do with specifics.

[Analogman]

In other election news, not related to the presidential race:

 

http://www.noonprop8.com/

 

My mom got a lovely note in her mailbox last night, thanking her for having a No on 8 sign in her window. It was from a couple up the street, who've been together 24 years and were finally married in June. They've got three kids who go to school with my nieces and nephews. I'm totally disgusted by the Yes on 8 ads, I can't imagine what families like these must think when they see them.

 

What's your take on those commercials? I posted them in one of these threads.

[gogo]

What's your take on those commercials? I posted them in one of these threads.

They seem to be focused on one thing: If we don't pass Prop 8, your kids will be taught about gay marriage in school! There's also a No on 8 ad where the California Superintendent of Schools says that no, that will not happen, and then there are response ads to that one, saying that he's a liberal politician and a liar. Oy.

 

Several of the Yes on 8 ads are run in both English and Spanish, which is not odd in California, but this is definitely being pushed to Hispanics, in the hope that they'll be more conservative on this kind of a social issue. I'm very surprised at how many Yes on 8 signs I'm seeing, even in San Francisco, and I'm pretty worried that this might pass. There's a whole lot of state between here and LA.

[Analogman]

They seem to be focused on one thing: If we don't pass Prop 8, your kids will be taught about gay marriage in school! There's also a No on 8 ad where the California Superintendent of Schools says that no, that will not happen, and then there are response ads to that one, saying that he's a liberal politician and a liar. Oy.

 

Several of the Yes on 8 ads are run in both English and Spanish, which is not odd in California, but this is definitely being pushed to Hispanics, in the hope that they'll be more conservative on this kind of a social issue. I'm very surprised at how many Yes on 8 signs I'm seeing, even in San Francisco, and I'm pretty worried that this might pass. There's a whole lot of state between here and LA.

 

 

A Child's Garden Of Anti-Gay Hipster YouTubes

 

Meet The Hip Young People Who Hate Gay Marriage

[ih8music]

They seem to be focused on one thing: If we don't pass Prop 8, your kids will be taught about gay marriage in school! There's also a No on 8 ad where the California Superintendent of Schools says that no, that will not happen, and then there are response ads to that one, saying that he's a liberal politician and a liar. Oy.

 

Several of the Yes on 8 ads are run in both English and Spanish, which is not odd in California, but this is definitely being pushed to Hispanics, in the hope that they'll be more conservative on this kind of a social issue. I'm very surprised at how many Yes on 8 signs I'm seeing, even in San Francisco, and I'm pretty worried that this might pass. There's a whole lot of state between here and LA.

Yep. my neighborhood (in a moderate area of Orange County - 50/50 dems & repubs) is full of "Yes on 8" signs, easily 10:1. The Catholic church is pushing it hard (including my parish), and a huge %age of hispanics in CA are catholic. I'm afraid it's going to win.

 

not sure if I saw these here first or not, but this stuff sickens me:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlItG4raicA

 

[bobbob1313]

we are a house divided when it comes to the twins. when you ask each child who the next president will be:

 

owen: OBAMA!

 

logan: BATMAN!

 

i may have mentioned this earlier, we have never directly referred to obama to the kids at all. yet, owen can identify obama by picture, voice and even that seal he uses.

 

That is awesome.