Congrats to President-Elect OBAMA

[bobbob1313]

Bobbob, I believe the saying is, "those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." McCain pounds and pounds this tenuous connection with Ayers, who was part of an organization that committed terrorist acts in protest of the Vietnam war, while he himself knowingly bombed civilian targets during that conflict. Both matters are probably equally irrelevant.

 

I'm ok with that. But if we're going to complain about the Ayers thing, is it then cool for us to say that McCain is a baby killing bomber man?

 

And DCarter, I'm plenty happy. Just not in the election thread. This is super serious business.

[mountain bed]

bob, me and louie are old. We have be cantankerous, curmudgeonly cudgels. It's all that we have left. You are a young man. Enjoy life. Be happy. It's all in front of you.

Let's hope so, Doug. THIS is one of the biggest resons why this election is so important.

[Doug C]

And DCarter, I'm plenty happy. Just not in the election thread. This is super serious business.

Please tell me you are demonstrating your wit. Otherwise all is lost for you.

[jenbobblehead]

Calling it your job doesn't make it right.

Really people, if you haven't read that mccain article in rolling stone, you really need to.

[Doug C]

Really people, if you haven't read that mccain article in rolling stone, you really need to.

I agree. It is a well-written eye opener. I'm glad that I have kept my Rolling Stone subsciption current since I was 14.

[bobbob1313]

Please tell me you are demonstrating your wit. Otherwise all is lost for you.

 

I have no idea what you are talking about.

[caliber66]

I'm ok with that. But if we're going to complain about the Ayers thing, is it then cool for us to say that McCain is a baby killing bomber man?

I think it's a natural reaction to some of the things McCain has said to want to retaliate. Like you said, though, it's moot.

[Doug C]

If this has been posted somewhere, I apologize for upseting the people that are oddly upset by multiple posts of the same information. Jaysus, pet a dog or something.

 

On the way to work this morning, the community radio station was playing a song about how 'there's no one as Irish as Barack Obama'. Hilarious. Lines like, "from Dublin City to Connemara there's no one as Irish as Barack Obama" and 'too ra lu ra lu ra lama there's no one as Irish as Barack Obama". It was recorded live in a pub. I meant to post earlier but I forgot.

 

I found a youtube. I can't watch vids at work so I hope the link from google works. I can't wait to get home and watch!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKZryEAzUg

Enjoy and let this bring much needed levity to the election thread.

[aricandover]

Like you said, though, it's moot.

 

 

 

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=...ideoid=10783207

[Doug C]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Umm... "I'm plenty happy. Just not in the election thread. This is super serious business". I hope that you do not actually believe that this thread is super serious business. If so, then all is lost for you.

[sweetheart-mine]

I've often said that if Nader was serious about changing the way Washington works, he'd run for an office he could actually win - like a congressional representative or even US senator. These presidential runs are just for publicity, IMO. They're certainly not doing anything to advance the cause, especially this year.

 

excellent point. i've come to believe he'd be a disaster as president, but he might make a great congressional rep or senator. nearly his whole career has been about legislation in one form or another.

[sweetheart-mine]

I'm ok with that. But if we're going to complain about the Ayers thing, is it then cool for us to say that McCain is a baby killing bomber man?

 

mccain is running for president. ayers isn't.

 

but you see how mccain gets to certain people by encouraging them to draw false parallels, as your post did.

[jenbobblehead]

The folks who live across the street from me served with John McCain in the Navy and they have a big Obama sign in their yard. They have nothing but bad things to say about him and echoed the sentiments of what many said in the Rolling Stone article.

[jc4prez]

While I respect Matt Gonzalez oh, just slightly more than I respect Sarah Palin, Nader's choice of Gonzalez as a running mate doesn't say much to me about Nader's decision-making (Matt Gonzalez was the representative to the SF Board of Supervisors from my district, the first Green supervisor, I believe; and yes, I voted for him). I respect what Nader has accomplished, but I don't think his runs for president are adding much luster to his legacy. It's been said here before, but where are the Naders and Gonzalezes of this world in the local elections? I really like the current supervisor in our district, Ross Mirkarimi, also a Green. Even he is supporting Obama.

 

 

Why don't you respect Matt?

 

 

And Matt actually ran an extremely tight race agaisnt SF mayor Gavin Newsome, I think his career is only beginning.

[gogo]

On the way to work this morning, the community radio station was playing a song about how 'there's no one as Irish as Barack Obama'. Hilarious. Lines like, "from Dublin City to Connemara there's no one as Irish as Barack Obama" and 'too ra lu ra lu ra lama there's no one as Irish as Barack Obama". It was recorded live in a pub. I meant to post earlier but I forgot.

 

I found a youtube. I can't watch vids at work so I hope the link from google works. I can't wait to get home and watch!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eKZryEAzUg

Enjoy and let this bring much needed levity to the election thread.

I think that one's the original, but I like

, it's Shay Black at the Starry Plough in Berkeley. It goes on for-freakin'-ever, but there are definitely some funny lines in there, every possible rhyme for "Obama", like in the verse about his mother: "she comes from a line of good Irish mamas..." And then "from Kenyan, to Fenian, it's the American way". Damn thing's been stuck in my head for weeks.

[jc4prez]

Wait--did you just point to something published by Nader's running mate as a convincing argument that Nader is a much-needed alternative? I mean, I guess its more than McCain can say that his running mate has done for him, but still...

 

I like Nader. Voted for him in 2000. Admittedly, I haven't remotely considered voting for him this time. You could call it settling for the lesser of two evils if you really want to, but I actually do have a decent amount of faith in Obama. Whether I will come be disappointed in time remains to be seen, but for now I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

What is there in Obama's voting record or his stances that give you hope for the future? He is just bringing a new face to the same US imperialism that we've always had.

 

You can laugh at who wrote the articles, but the information doesn't lie. There is no CHANGE, the only change will be popular support for more of the same bullshit.

[Doug C]

I think that one's the original, but I like

, it's Shay Black at the Starry Plough in Berkeley. It goes on for-freakin'-ever, but there are definitely some funny lines in there, every possible rhyme for "Obama", like in the verse about his mother: "she comes from a line of good Irish mamas..." And then "from Kenyan, to Fenian, it's the American way". Damn thing's been stuck in my head for weeks.

Thanks. Yes. My 'inner voice choir' has also been singing it throughout the day!

[gogo]

Why don't you respect Matt?

 

And Matt actually ran an extremely tight race agaisnt SF mayor Gavin Newsome, I think his career is only beginning.

My problems with Matt Gonzalez mostly started after the mayor's race. He ran a good campaign, it was pretty close, and he had every right to be proud of what he did there. But his reaction to the result stunk of bitterness, and he dropped out of local politics after that race (after serving out his term as supervisor). He had tons of name recognition at that point, probably would have had a good shot at something like DA, but as far as I know, he hasn't run for anything since (5 years on), until he shows up as Nader's running mate. He could have racked up some good local support for the Greens in an area that's ripe for that kind of activity, but he dropped the ball.

[jc4prez]

My problems with Matt Gonzalez mostly started after the mayor's race. He ran a good campaign, it was pretty close, and he had every right to be proud of what he did there. But his reaction to the result stunk of bitterness, and he dropped out of local politics after that race (after serving out his term as supervisor). He had tons of name recognition at that point, probably would have had a good shot at something like DA, but as far as I know, he hasn't run for anything since (5 years on), until he shows up as Nader's running mate. He could have racked up some good local support for the Greens in an area that's ripe for that kind of activity, but he dropped the ball.

 

 

He was a lawyer prior to being a supervisor, he still is and has been fighting civil rights cases. Gonzalez& Leigh

 

Matt has said that he wanted to step out of electoral politics for a small time. This is one of the biggest reasons I like him, I think its important that political offices are held by citizens, not an elite ruling class. Members of the community should step up to the plate of elected office and then step back.

 

I'm sure Matt has learned a lot from Ralph over the past few months and as I said: I don't think this is the last we will see of Matt Gonzalez.

 

As for the green party, Matt has voiced some of the same concerns Ralph had with the party and their lack of organization on a national level. Hell Cynthia McKinney didn't even get federal matching funds, I'm pretty sure a candidate only needs to raise 50,000 dollars by a certain date.

[gogo]

He was a lawyer prior to being a supervisor, he still is and has been fighting civil rights cases. Gonzalez& Leigh

Yeah, I'm aware of his legal career. I'm not saying I have any problem with him as a person, or even with any of his positions on the issues. I just don't expect much from him politically.

[caliber66]

mccain is running for president. ayers isn't.

 

but you see how mccain gets to certain people by encouraging them to draw false parallels, as your post did.

Are you serious?

[quarter23cd]

Re: the Gonzalez article

CONCLUSION:

 

Once I started looking at the votes Obama actually cast, I began to hear his rhetoric differently. The principal conclusion I draw about "change" and Barack Obama is that Obama needs to change his voting habits and stop pandering to win votes. If he does this he might someday make a decent candidate who could earn my support. For now Obama has fallen into a dangerous pattern of capitulation that he cannot reconcile with his growing popularity as an agent of change.

I don't disagree with a lot of the content here, but his central argument through the whole thing is that Obama has compromised certain decisions for the sake of political expedience and he has picked a few examples to demonstrate this. And to this I say--okay, sure. Guilty. Democrats, on the whole, haven't been as aggressive in opposing the general BS in recent years as I would have liked, either. Even when they won their majority in Congress, it felt tenuous and they entered into a toxic environment and have been overly cautious with their power. Fine. I don't disagree.

 

What is problematic here, however, is that his concluding argument of "if only he were a little more uncompromising, I would support him more", while ideal, conveniently ignores the fact that he would almost certainly be a far less viable presidential candidate. McCain calling Obama "the most liberal member of Congress" (which, as noted, is kind of silly) would be a lot more damaging among the centrists and undecideds if it were actually true. And, yeah, maybe its cynical to accept that this is how the game is played, but it is. Its reality. But to suggest that he represents "no change" from his predecessor or his current opponent seems to me to obsess upon an minority of cases and willfully ignore a whole lot of evidence to the contrary.

 

Change, particularly at the highest levels of government, can't happen all at once. Hell, even with this "compromised" candidate (as he calls him) we've got, there's a sizable chunk of the electorate who is freaking the hell out right now. Electability is such a cynical argument to make--so much so that I hate to be sitting here making it--but it honestly beats the hell out of the alternative, to me. I'm sure I'm not really expressing this well, but really, I don't see what Ralph is adding to this campaign.

 

I've voted Nader in the past. In theory, I like what he's about. And I hate arguing that people shouldn't be uncompromising in their decision over who they pick. But I guess just add me to the list of people who think that the kind of ideas being put forth by Nader/Gonzalez are far better taking root at the local level first rather than just having Ralphie throw everything he's got at an increasingly-irrelevant presidential bid every few years. If the primary function of the 3rd party candidates in this current system is to raise issues that are being ignored by the major parties, Ralph isn't even accomplishing that right now. If he really wants to be influential, it just seems he could find much better ways of doing it, because this isn't working.

[Analogman]

Confusing North Carolina Ballot Leaves off Votes for President

[LouieB]

bob, Louie and I are old. We have be cantankerous, curmudgeonly cudgels. It's all that we have left. You are a young man. Enjoy life. Be happy. It's all in front of you.

I am not nearly as cantankerous as I am made out to be, but I do buy beers for VCs all the time...you have one coming...

 

 

He could have racked up some good local support for the Greens in an area that's ripe for that kind of activity, but he dropped the ball.

Actually his begging for money on his website and then ripping Obama is ridiculous. This guy can't organize his way out of a paper bag.....

 

 

I don't disagree with a lot of the content here, but his central argument through the whole thing is that Obama has compromised certain decisions for the sake of political expedience and he has picked a few examples to demonstrate this. And to this I say--okay, sure. Guilty. Democrats, on the whole, haven't been as aggressive in opposing the general BS in recent years as I would have liked, either. Even when they won their majority in Congress, it felt tenuous and they entered into a toxic environment and have been overly cautious with their power. Fine. I don't disagree.....etc etc.

Ralph isn't even accomplishing that right now. If he really wants to be influential, it just seems he could find much better ways of doing it, because this isn't working.

I have no idea why we are still arguing about this, but your response seems reasonable. No one governs anything (country, state, city, organization of any kind) from the margins and the fringes. It doesn't happen. (For a good example of trying to govern look to Israel, a culture with a multi-party system...it can't form a government...) It is easy to set up the straw man of you must not compromise, because that's an easy target. Everyone who governs compromises and this country is one of the most divided on earth (well maybe Iraq, but look at the mess that place is...) so yes all politicians are going to compromise. Without compromise there is no way to move forward.

 

Look jc4pres and all the rest of you guys....go for it. I wish the world were that pure, but it isn't. In every day life we all compromise ourselves, our principals and our relationships. We can't live otherwise. You are being disengenuous if you believe otherwise. Baiting those of us who have come to terms with reality (Obama is a pretty good candidate and he is going to represent us as best as he can and he is going to do something Nader can never do, which is win the White House.) and now it is time to move on.

 

In a week everyone is going to make nice, because by then it will all be decided. The only ones who won't are those who can't live in the real world. Hell even McCain and Obama will sit down and have a laugh after all the unkind words. Why? Because Obama is the man and McCain isn't. Even Nader has had to cozy up to the devil (those creating and moving legislation) over the years to get his agenda acted upon. Y'all can treat me like a fucking idiot, I don't care, but I have run for very small offices in my life and run organizations and reality is a tough tough taskmaster. Try running for any office (PTA chair is fine, president of the local Wilco fan club is fine too.), you can't be that dogmatic and get anything accomplished. Some day when some of you grow up you will learn that the world is not black and white, it is simply a sickening shade of grey.

 

LouieB

[Guest Jules]

I guess I just find it hard to believe that most Americans actually support Obama's platform or are aware of his history as a senator.

He has a platform?